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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings XIV - UFA talk now

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Old
05-09-2013, 11:35 AM
  #626
The Naz
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I think we need at least one of two things: Upgrade in goal, or upgrade in D. We could use a Dman that can eat minutes for us and relieve Dion from being a 25+ min player. I don't think he's that good. I also don't think Reimer is a star 1G, just a solid goalie. He'd be great in St Louis, or any other team that has depth at D that plays smart, but TOR has talented D that isn't always the smartest group. We need intelligence on our D, or a goalie that can bail us out like what Cujo and Eddie always did. I think our D is better then any D Sundin had, but Reimer isn't anywhere near as good as those goalies.

I'd be talking to VAN this summer to see what can be done for Luongo and Bieksa. I wouldn't give up the world for them, but at least discuss it. I don't think Phaneuf is good enough to cover top teams star forwards without high quality help.

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:44 PM
  #627
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A couple of other guys to consider, maybe in depth roles:

Peter Harrold (NJD) or Ben Lovejoy (ANH). Both RHD; Lovejoy is more physical and looks pretty good in a depth role in Anaheim, meanwhile Harrold isn't spectacular or anything but he does everything decently.
Lovejoy set up the OT winner last night. He's really turning into a solid defender.

A cost-effective replacement for O'Byrne.

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05-09-2013, 12:48 PM
  #628
N4Z3M LUPUL
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so because reimer didnt save an overtime goal, in his first overtime playoff game, and his first nhl playoff series, he cant steal us games or make the big save?

2-0 win over new jersey anyone?

the guy will learn, nobody has patience for anything, and it is actually getting ridiculous.

I also dont think bieksa is the missing piece either as he is getting old and can be undisciplined.

we're a young team thats learning. Next year will be different, especially with the experience gained in these playoffs and the D prospects who could make a splash in training camp.

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Old
05-09-2013, 12:51 PM
  #629
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If that combo got us the # 5 pick I'd do it without even thinking twice.

Then replace Gunnar with a UFA Dman.

Having that # 5 pick and Rielly both coming in at the same time on ELC contracts as well as having Kadri/Gardiner on there 2nd contracts would be absolutely massive for this team over the next few seasons.
It's likely it won't though. We'd probably have to add one of Biggs/Percy/Finn.

Colborne, Gunnar, 1st, Biggs.


It's a dirty little package but that's probably what it would take. These days those top-picks are as good as franchise players well before they ever make it.

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05-09-2013, 12:59 PM
  #630
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Not a lot of good talented players available.
Not if you're looking for first line talent. But its littered with second line guys who could feasibly make it to market. Theres a couple Toronto could pick up.

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05-09-2013, 01:17 PM
  #631
Ricky Bobby
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It's likely it won't though. We'd probably have to add one of Biggs/Percy/Finn.

Colborne, Gunnar, 1st, Biggs.


It's a dirty little package but that's probably what it would take. These days those top-picks are as good as franchise players well before they ever make it.
I see them just targeting a better Dman or at least one with higher upside from another team like Giordano, Tyutin, Fowler, Del Zotto instead of taking a package with as many pieces as that.

If we sign Ranger or a free agent Dman then Franson or Gunnarson have a good chance of becoming that a major piece in a trade to help us get that center we need after this season (either through acquiring a good pick) or someone like Paul Stastny.

Sign Ranger

Trade Gunnar for Stastny (whose still only 27 and the Avs retain a million of his cap hit).

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05-09-2013, 01:21 PM
  #632
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Wasn't there some Keith Yandle rumors? I hope they address there D issues.. Way too many defensive problems throughout this series.

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05-09-2013, 01:29 PM
  #633
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I see them just targeting a better Dman or at least one with higher upside from another team like Giordano, Tyutin, Fowler, Del Zotto instead of taking a package with as many pieces as that.

If we sign Ranger or a free agent Dman then Franson or Gunnarson have a good chance of becoming that a major piece in a trade to help us get that center we need after this season (either through acquiring a good pick) or someone like Paul Stastny.

Sign Ranger

Trade Gunnar for Stastny (whose still only 27 and the Avs retain a million of his cap hit).
Honestly we could probably swing a great deal with Calgary for Glencross + Giordano. It would cost a lot though. But they'll be in their mid 30s by the time the rebuild is done.

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05-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #634
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Honestly we could probably swing a great deal with Calgary for Glencross + Giordano. It would cost a lot though. But they'll be in their mid 30s by the time the rebuild is done.
Great for who? Giordano is their future captain and was deemed untouchable at the deadline. Frankly if I'm Calgary I keep them to help bridge the kids into the big show through their rebuild.

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05-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #635
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I think we should sign Horton...both to help us and hinder Boston. Also we need a good veteran backup...Bulin wall, Garon. Theodore all FAs. Trade Scrivens for a 2nd or 3rd at the draft.



Lupul/Kadri/Kessel
JVR/Grabo/Horton
Kul/Bozak/Komorov
Orr/Mclement/Mclaren


killer...

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Old
05-09-2013, 02:03 PM
  #636
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Honestly we could probably swing a great deal with Calgary for Glencross + Giordano. It would cost a lot though. But they'll be in their mid 30s by the time the rebuild is done.
I meant Carolina would try for someone like Giordano before taking a deal for Gunnarson + a few other pieces.

I guess we could try for Giordano and he'd be an awesome addition to the team but with Gardiner and Rielly developing over the next few years I don't think he'd be worth the cost of what we'd have to give up.

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05-09-2013, 02:16 PM
  #637
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What would it take to get Yandle?

1st + 2nd + Grabovski + Gunnarsson?
Sign Clarkson

Next year:

JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul (A) - Kadri - Kulemin
Frattin - Colborne - Clarkson
Komarov - McClement - Orr
-McLaren/Hamilton

Rielly - Phaneuf (C)
Gardiner - Yandle (A)
Fraser - Franson
-Liles/Ranger

Reimer
Scrivens


If we can't offer a good enough package for Yandle (without including Gardiner/Rielly) then why not go for Bieksa?

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05-09-2013, 02:35 PM
  #638
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if I were the leafs I would try to trade up into the 10-13 range as I feel one of the big prospects can drop. Personally hoping for lindholm

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05-09-2013, 02:38 PM
  #639
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I would sign clarkson over horton, better fits the scope of our team

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05-09-2013, 02:41 PM
  #640
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Originally Posted by Beleafer4 View Post
I would sign clarkson over horton, better fits the scope of our team
I'd say Horton fits our team better, as he's a lot faster and more skilled.

But I see us going after Clarkson.

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05-09-2013, 02:46 PM
  #641
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I'd say Horton fits our team better, as he's a lot faster and more skilled.

But I see us going after Clarkson.
the reason i feel clarkson is a better fit is because he crashes the net more and is better at winning board battles than horton. Horton will be more expensive and can enigmatic.

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:12 PM
  #642
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I'd say Horton fits our team better, as he's a lot faster and more skilled.

But I see us going after Clarkson.
I'd stay away from concussion issues where possible.

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Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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Old
05-09-2013, 03:14 PM
  #643
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Originally Posted by N4Z3M LUPUL View Post
so because reimer didnt save an overtime goal, in his first overtime playoff game, and his first nhl playoff series, he cant steal us games or make the big save?

2-0 win over new jersey anyone?

the guy will learn, nobody has patience for anything, and it is actually getting ridiculous.

I also dont think bieksa is the missing piece either as he is getting old and can be undisciplined.

we're a young team thats learning. Next year will be different, especially with the experience gained in these playoffs and the D prospects who could make a splash in training camp.
Cujo and Belfour constantly stole games for us in the playoffs. They were usually our best players in those games. Those were teams with very little defensive system. Wide open pond hockey. You may be right though that in time Reimer could still get better. He is still relatively young. But the D is not. They aren't old, but they aren't prospects. Dion is 28, and is supposed to be our #1 shut down option. I don't think he is capable of that while playing with 2nd and 3rd string guys. He needs a high quality partner with great hockey IQ. I think Bieksa would be an improvement on that, or at least bring someone who has done #1 shut down detail. He was just a name off the top of my head.

I definitely think our forwards have a lot to be proud of in this series, and will continue to learn and grow, I'm just concerned with where our true shut down players will come from. I don't know if we have that in our system yet. Maybe one day in Percy. But if we don't roll at least 2 sets of smart defensive play, I don't think Reimer is good enough to steal games for us. There is a huge difference in his game to even still Luongo.

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05-09-2013, 03:23 PM
  #644
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I'd love to see something like this for next year

Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
JVR-Grabovski-Kulemin
Frattin-Bozak-Clarkson
Komarov-McClement-Ashton

Phaneuf-Gunnarsson
Gardiner-Franson
Rielly-Ranger

Reimer
Scrivens

Tbh, it would be nice to get a better backup than Scrivens, but not sure what's available out there.

Compliance buyouts on Liles and Komisarek give us $26 million in cap-space, plenty of room.

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05-09-2013, 03:25 PM
  #645
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I'd stay away from concussion issues where possible.
I agree, just meant style wise.

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05-09-2013, 03:32 PM
  #646
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Not if you're looking for first line talent. But its littered with second line guys who could feasibly make it to market. Theres a couple Toronto could pick up.
If you take a look at the list of top Free Agents I posted, it appears that there are few defencemen available and fewer that are any better than what we now have.

When it comes to the F/A's at center, I would re-sign Bozak over any of them and their expected Salaries, plus their ages are up there and you would be taking a chance, re-signing them to a 5 year contract, as far as other wing positions, Clarkson and Horton maybe but again their salary expectations are going to be a big factor, with the cap going down this year.

I believe the trade route, may be the best way to upgrade the team.

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05-09-2013, 03:34 PM
  #647
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Wasn't there some Keith Yandle rumors? I hope they address there D issues.. Way too many defensive problems throughout this series.
The cost would be huge and Yandle is not good defensively. I'd just let Gardiner and Rielly develop into the role Yandle plays.

I would take another run at Robidas in the Off-season.

Unfortunately high end d-men are rarely available and when they are the cost is exorbetent. Our best bet may be to find a stopgap like Robidas and let our prospects fill our holes from within.

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05-09-2013, 03:36 PM
  #648
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The cost would be huge and Yandle is not good defensively. I'd just let Gardiner and Rielly develop into the role Yandle plays.

I would take another run at Robidas in the Off-season.

Unfortunately high end d-men are rarely available and when they are the cost is exorbetent. Our best bet may be to find a stopgap like Robidas and let our prospects fill our holes from within.
Dont forget that Nill will probably clean house in Dallas. I'd imagine Robidas is available

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05-09-2013, 03:40 PM
  #649
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Dont forget that Nill will probably clean house in Dallas. I'd imagine Robidas is available
That might be a good fit for cheap. He hits a tonne, and is a smart player.

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05-09-2013, 03:54 PM
  #650
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I think we need at least one of two things: Upgrade in goal, or upgrade in D. We could use a Dman that can eat minutes for us and relieve Dion from being a 25+ min player. I don't think he's that good. I also don't think Reimer is a star 1G, just a solid goalie. He'd be great in St Louis, or any other team that has depth at D that plays smart, but TOR has talented D that isn't always the smartest group. We need intelligence on our D, or a goalie that can bail us out like what Cujo and Eddie always did. I think our D is better then any D Sundin had, but Reimer isn't anywhere near as good as those goalies.

I'd be talking to VAN this summer to see what can be done for Luongo and Bieksa. I wouldn't give up the world for them, but at least discuss it. I don't think Phaneuf is good enough to cover top teams star forwards without high quality help.
You really only need that dman to play with Phaneuf. Neither Phaneuf nor Reimer by themselves are good enough to make this team a cup contender and that's not a bad thing. Look at Nashville. Weber and Rinne couldn't make Nashville a playoff team. Lundqvist alone couldn't make the Rangers one. Expecting Reimer and Phaneuf to make this team into a winner is just expecting way too much. People expect far too much from one player.

Hockey isn't the kind of sport where one player makes a team. Otherwise you wouldn't see Tampa Bay struggling so much with St Louis and Stamkos, nor Carolina struggling so much with Eric Staal. Hockey is a team sport that rewards well balanced teams with depth. Toronto is building a right team and has good impact players at every position. It also now has scoring depth. Now it's time to add some defensive depth.

Adding a top line guy to play with Phaneuf would do wonders for this team. It takes pressure off Phaneuf, and leads to him showing less mistakes. He's not Chara and shouldn't be expected to play like him. He's playing like a number 1, but he's playing like one that is playing by himself. It shows. That's not a weakness on his parts, but on management for not giving him a partner. Give him a partner and he's going to look a lot better. Less mistakes (not as tired), more highlight reel hits (having a partner to depend on will allow him to take those chances), and more of him jumping up into the play.

It also allows Gunnar to stop playing on the top line and to move to a line with Gardiner. Gives Gardiner that calming presence that allows him to jump up into the play. Gunnar is a good player but he isn't a top line guy. I suspect that time to heal and decreased responsibility makes him better in the long run. Plus he can cover for Gardiner's jumping into the play and to be expected mistakes that will come with that kind of game as he learns it.

It also prevents Carlyle from tossing Franson/Fraser into a situation they are not prepared for. They are an elite third pairing, with Franson being a great PP guy. But they are not a 2nd line unit. They excel when they are playing as a third unit.

Plus a deeper defensive unit means Reimer doesn't have to bale us out as often. I do not agree with your assesment on him. He's been great when we asked him too, but we've asked him too much and he gets tired and makes mistakes. Adding that top pairing guy will lighten his load a little more and allow him to play a game that helps us win more, and win longer (deep into the playoffs).

This teams biggest need is a top line dman. By far. It would go a long way to making us a cup contender. Getting that will be hard but it would unquestionably improve the team in a massive way.

Then comes the center with size.

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