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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings XIV - UFA talk now

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Old
05-09-2013, 03:57 PM
  #651
tooncesmeow
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Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Great for who? Giordano is their future captain and was deemed untouchable at the deadline. Frankly if I'm Calgary I keep them to help bridge the kids into the big show through their rebuild.
I don't think they will. They're going to be 33-34 by the time this rebuild finishes. This isnt Ottawa or Philly, this is a team with maybe 3 prospects worth talking about, and their recent pick ups being at least 3-4 years away. They're going to have to do things the hard way. I wouldn't say both would be off limits, especially Glencross.

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05-09-2013, 04:12 PM
  #652
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Dion-Robidas
Gardiner-Gunnarson
Rielly/Other-Franson

Looks OK to me. Gunnarson can play a stabilizing role for Gardiner, similar to what he does with Dion.

1st PP

Dion-Gards

2nd PP

Rielly-Franson

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05-09-2013, 05:20 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Dion-Robidas
Gardiner-Gunnarson
Rielly/Other-Franson

Looks OK to me. Gunnarson can play a stabilizing role for Gardiner, similar to what he does with Dion.

1st PP

Dion-Gards

2nd PP

Rielly-Franson

I honestly think at this point it's better to trade Gunnarson in a package for either a top-15 draft pick or a top-6 centre. He's the in-between-er... he doesn't do anything well enough to set him apart from Franson's offense and occasional big hits, Phaneuf's phaneuf, Gardiner's skating, or potential targets in Murray's physicality and/or Robidas's top-pairing experieince and offence and/or etc. etc. When I think of 'stabalizing' for guys like Gardiner and Reilly, I think of grisly, mean SOBs that you hate to play against that will get in your face the second you start mis-treating his defense partner. Gunnarson's about as much of that as .. well, you get the point - he isn't.

Gunnar may be the odd man out, especially with Backer, Holzer, Ranger possibly, and Reilly stepping into the show and not to mention the addition of the above and other FA targets. Time to wrap Gunnarson's 2nd pairing a$$ up and send him out in favour of a high draft pick or a top-9 need.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tooncesmeow
I don't think they will. They're going to be 33-34 by the time this rebuild finishes. This isnt Ottawa or Philly, this is a team with maybe 3 prospects worth talking about, and their recent pick ups being at least 3-4 years away. They're going to have to do things the hard way. I wouldn't say both would be off limits, especially Glencross.
I see your point here. But is Glencross's 40-50 pts a season enough to substantiate our interest in him? I agree LW depth would be great, but what sets him apart from a guy like Stalberg?

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05-09-2013, 05:22 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by tooncesmeow View Post
I don't think they will. They're going to be 33-34 by the time this rebuild finishes. This isnt Ottawa or Philly, this is a team with maybe 3 prospects worth talking about, and their recent pick ups being at least 3-4 years away. They're going to have to do things the hard way. I wouldn't say both would be off limits, especially Glencross.
I don't expect Gio to play out that contract in Calgary but I also don't expect Toronto to be the team that would acquire him.

I'd look for them to target the Carolina pick at 5. If Edmonton wasn't so close to them geographically targeting their 7th would also make sense.

Gio has lots of good hockey left in him so if they don't get an overpayment I could see them being just as happy to keep him.

Glencross at 30 could be nothing in a few short years or he simply could be a good player on a bad team. They should try to sell him off before next deadline.

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05-09-2013, 07:13 PM
  #655
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What do People think of Kari Lehtonen?

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05-09-2013, 07:42 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by VALDAL View Post
What do People think of Kari Lehtonen?
Reimer is better....

Why do people still insist we need a new goalie? Reimer is very good. We need to upgrade our defense.

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05-09-2013, 07:45 PM
  #657
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Plus a deeper defensive unit means Reimer doesn't have to bale us out as often. I do not agree with your assesment on him. He's been great when we asked him too, but we've asked him too much and he gets tired and makes mistakes. Adding that top pairing guy will lighten his load a little more and allow him to play a game that helps us win more, and win longer (deep into the playoffs).

This teams biggest need is a top line dman. By far. It would go a long way to making us a cup contender. Getting that will be hard but it would unquestionably improve the team in a massive way.

Then comes the center with size.
I think we do agree, but I don't think Reimer is good enough to bale out bad defense in the way Cujo and Belfour could. But even they couldn't get us the Cup. I think Reimer is fine to win with, if we have better D throughout. Dropping everyone down a peg or two with the addition of a great #2 would be the best thing for us, but we will have to move out important pieces for that. Robidais could be the cheapest solution, if our scouts feel he is capable to eat up 20+ mins on a cup contender.

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05-09-2013, 07:48 PM
  #658
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Can someone please tell me what a great goalie is this day and age? Vancouver is the laughing stock of the league because they cant trade a "great" goalie. Pittsburgh's "great goalie" is warming the bench tonight. Montreals "great goalie" could barely stop a puck this season.

All im seeing is guys who get hot for a season or two (or less ~ a playoff) and then are no better then average. With VERY few exceptions (maybe Lundqvist?).

A quality D-corps is more important, IMO.

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05-09-2013, 07:55 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Can someone please tell me what a great goalie is this day and age? Vancouver is the laughing stock of the league because they cant trade a "great" goalie. Pittsburgh's "great goalie" is warming the bench tonight. Montreals "great goalie" could barely stop a puck this season.

All im seeing is guys who get hot for a season or two and then are no better then average. With VERY few exceptions (maybe Lundqvist?).

A quality D-corps is more important, IMO.
To continue along your thought line, the other end of the spectrum are guys like Anderson or Elliott who bounce around then find Vezina form.

Hard to maintain the high level for several consecutive years.

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05-09-2013, 08:04 PM
  #660
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Not to mention goalies get better with age .. They take a long time to develop

Look at Niemi ... He wasn't particularly great when he won a cup with the Hawks, he was good but not as good as he is now and look at the numbers he put up with San Jose this season

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05-09-2013, 08:09 PM
  #661
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Not sure if NYR would ever consider dealing them but Girardi or McDonagh would be perfect. NYR's got Marc Staal on top of them as well.

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05-09-2013, 08:28 PM
  #662
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Just realized Matt Cooke is a UFA, would people be opposed to offering him a 2-3 year deal? What would he get? Currently 34 years old, looks to be solid for about 30-35 points (maybe expect more like 25 when moving off of pittsburgh). He is apart of the Pens shutdown unit (his main linemates this were was Sutter and Kennedy) and plays on the PK quite a bit.

I just see him as someone who could be a bit of a bridge on our team until prospects are ready to take over. Could be someone to fill in on our 3rd line for the time being, I feel Cooke would bring more to the team than someone like MacArthur but would probably come at around a similar price tag. Lupul + JVR + Kessel + Kulemin as the top 4 wingers, Frattin-McClemant-Cooke could make one hell of a shutdown unit with enough speed and skill to get some goals as well. Also lets Komarov slide down to the 4th line where he seems to be best suited.

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05-09-2013, 09:09 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Just realized Matt Cooke is a UFA, would people be opposed to offering him a 2-3 year deal? What would he get? Currently 34 years old, looks to be solid for about 30-35 points (maybe expect more like 25 when moving off of pittsburgh). He is apart of the Pens shutdown unit (his main linemates this were was Sutter and Kennedy) and plays on the PK quite a bit.

I just see him as someone who could be a bit of a bridge on our team until prospects are ready to take over. Could be someone to fill in on our 3rd line for the time being, I feel Cooke would bring more to the team than someone like MacArthur but would probably come at around a similar price tag. Lupul + JVR + Kessel + Kulemin as the top 4 wingers, Frattin-McClemant-Cooke could make one hell of a shutdown unit with enough speed and skill to get some goals as well. Also lets Komarov slide down to the 4th line where he seems to be best suited.
No thanks. We've got prospects we need to give chances to see if they can be NHLers. Jerry D'Amigo comes to mind. I also dont want the Matt Cooke side show around our young guys.

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05-09-2013, 09:18 PM
  #664
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Reimer is better...
Than Kari Lehtonen?

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05-09-2013, 09:23 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
No thanks. We've got prospects we need to give chances to see if they can be NHLers. Jerry D'Amigo comes to mind. I also dont want the Matt Cooke side show around our young guys.
Agreed on Cooke, don't want him anywhere near this team.

I've seen a few people mention D'Amigo now. He was great in the playoffs last year, but I've barely seen any Marlies games this year. How does he look, and is he someone who could realistically make the team next year?

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05-09-2013, 09:39 PM
  #666
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I honestly think at this point it's better to trade Gunnarson in a package for either a top-15 draft pick or a top-6 centre. He's the in-between-er... he doesn't do anything well enough to set him apart from Franson's offense and occasional big hits, Phaneuf's phaneuf, Gardiner's skating, or potential targets in Murray's physicality and/or Robidas's top-pairing experieince and offence and/or etc. etc. When I think of 'stabalizing' for guys like Gardiner and Reilly, I think of grisly, mean SOBs that you hate to play against that will get in your face the second you start mis-treating his defense partner. Gunnarson's about as much of that as .. well, you get the point - he isn't.

Gunnar may be the odd man out, especially with Backer, Holzer, Ranger possibly, and Reilly stepping into the show and not to mention the addition of the above and other FA targets. Time to wrap Gunnarson's 2nd pairing a$$ up and send him out in favour of a high draft pick or a top-9 need.
I agree that we should be looking to add a meaner stabilizer dman then Gunnar. Ranger would be ideal but if he doesn't I'd be happy with someone like Ference, Hainsey or Scuderi.

We're also very well stocked on LD with Gardiner, Fraser (who does fill a bottom pairing role well), Rielly, Liles.

We'd be lucky to have Gunnar get a top 15 pick. I'm thinking a bit closer to 20th like Kyle Quincey who was traded for 19th overall pick in the draft last year. Something else I'd look at it as a deal around Gunnar for Stastny who'd be that upgrade we need at center.

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05-09-2013, 10:26 PM
  #667
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I wish gunnerson could get a 1st rounder, but no chance that's happening. This draft is considered deep and no one will give a 1st for a at best 3-4 dman. He has been ok to horrible at times this year.

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05-09-2013, 10:28 PM
  #668
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The Blues are going to have a ton of guys to sign this summer. I am sure they would part with bowmeester. Some may think he is soft but he is a top pair guy that can play with Dion. Jaybo has played those big minutes and now with him in the playoff that whole stigma of not being a winner is gone

Only 1 year left on his deal 6 mil then ufa. Would be a good stop gap to allow Riley to play AHL minutes and let Gardiner pay 2nd pairing

If he works out then maybe sign him to a cheaper deal


Between him and Kessel don't know is the more outgoing guy haha

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05-09-2013, 10:29 PM
  #669
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I agree that we should be looking to add a meaner stabilizer dman then Gunnar. Ranger would be ideal but if he doesn't I'd be happy with someone like Ference, Hainsey or Scuderi.

We're also very well stocked on LD with Gardiner, Fraser (who does fill a bottom pairing role well), Rielly, Liles.

We'd be lucky to have Gunnar get a top 15 pick. I'm thinking a bit closer to 20th like Kyle Quincey who was traded for 19th overall pick in the draft last year. Something else I'd look at it as a deal around Gunnar for Stastny who'd be that upgrade we need at center.
Gunnarsson is 10 months older than Franson, with 4 years experience on the small ice.

He is only going to get better.

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05-09-2013, 10:43 PM
  #670
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The Blues are going to have a ton of guys to sign this summer. I am sure they would part with bowmeester. Some may think he is soft but he is a top pair guy that can play with Dion. Jaybo has played those big minutes and now with him in the playoff that whole stigma of not being a winner is gone

Between him and Kessel don't know is the more outgoing guy haha
My earlier post on the subject of acquiring Jaybo:

He now a 30 point a year guy who doesn't hit. He has gone from a 15 goal a year guy to 6, and was the #4 Calgary D on the power play after starting his time there as the #1 guy. He led their 20th ranked PK in ice time (but they were better last year) so his game is changing, but he is not a defensive wall, so not sure what his big draw is. You would maybe have to try to convert him back to the offensive guy he was in Florida.

Gunnar played on a Leafs club that had a far worse record than Jaybos Flames and in 214 games he was +6 with 67 points. 4-5 guy.

Jaybo in that time played 280 games and was -36 with 97pts. Top pairing guy.

Dion played in 209 Leaf games and was -18 with 105pts. Top pairing obviously.

Franson career 230 games with 90pts and a +33 as a 4-5 guy.(playing for Nashville helped somewhat but the bad Leafs teams even it up)

I am not much of a Dion fan but he played on a Leafs club that was never above 22nd place before this year, and Jaybo on a Flames club that was not worse than 17th place at the same time. Dion still managed a much better plus minus, 50% more points per game, and actually threw the odd hit.

Gio, on the same Flames team was 257gp, 108pts and a +5 and also killed penalties.

The Leaf comps show results achieved in a far worse environment by less highly regarded players. The Gio results show what might have been possible. I am not certain what happened to the Bouwmeester of 2006, but that is the one we want, not the Calgary guy. You might get the old Jaybo back, or at least a different version than Calgary's, but you don't trade assets hoping for a time machine. As a UFA, if you only had one decent PMD, I think he is a great "get", but right now he has new whipping boy written all over him.

Giordano is the guy to get, if they would move him. He hits more, blocks more, more takeaways, plus more offense. Easy choice, because he just has to play the way he has been to make your club better where JB has to play like he used to years ago in Florida.

** After his trade to the Blues he continued to score at a sub 30pt pace with no hitting. A fresh team might bring a change but I wouldn't bet millions of dollars on him.

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05-09-2013, 10:52 PM
  #671
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My earlier post on the subject of acquiring Jaybo:

He now a 30 point a year guy who doesn't hit. He has gone from a 15 goal a year guy to 6, and was the #4 Calgary D on the power play after starting his time there as the #1 guy. He led their 20th ranked PK in ice time (but they were better last year) so his game is changing, but he is not a defensive wall, so not sure what his big draw is. You would maybe have to try to convert him back to the offensive guy he was in Florida.

Gunnar played on a Leafs club that had a far worse record than Jaybos Flames and in 214 games he was +6 with 67 points. 4-5 guy.

Jaybo in that time played 280 games and was -36 with 97pts. Top pairing guy.

Dion played in 209 Leaf games and was -18 with 105pts. Top pairing obviously.

Franson career 230 games with 90pts and a +33 as a 4-5 guy.(playing for Nashville helped somewhat but the bad Leafs teams even it up)

I am not much of a Dion fan but he played on a Leafs club that was never above 22nd place before this year, and Jaybo on a Flames club that was not worse than 17th place at the same time. Dion still managed a much better plus minus, 50% more points per game, and actually threw the odd hit.

Gio, on the same Flames team was 257gp, 108pts and a +5 and also killed penalties.

The Leaf comps show results achieved in a far worse environment by less highly regarded players. The Gio results show what might have been possible. I am not certain what happened to the Bouwmeester of 2006, but that is the one we want, not the Calgary guy. You might get the old Jaybo back, or at least a different version than Calgary's, but you don't trade assets hoping for a time machine. As a UFA, if you only had one decent PMD, I think he is a great "get", but right now he has new whipping boy written all over him.

Giordano is the guy to get, if they would move him. He hits more, blocks more, more takeaways, plus more offense. Easy choice, because he just has to play the way he has been to make your club better where JB has to play like he used to years ago in Florida.

** After his trade to the Blues he continued to score at a sub 30pt pace with no hitting. A fresh team might bring a change but I wouldn't bet millions of dollars on him.
Bouwmeester - Born Sep 27 1983
Giordano - Born Oct 3 1983
Phaneuf - Born Apr 10 1985
Gunnarsson - Born Nov 9 1986
Franson - Born Aug 8 1987

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05-09-2013, 10:54 PM
  #672
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I agree that we should be looking to add a meaner stabilizer dman then Gunnar. Ranger would be ideal but if he doesn't I'd be happy with someone like Ference, Hainsey or Scuderi.

We're also very well stocked on LD with Gardiner, Fraser (who does fill a bottom pairing role well), Rielly, Liles.

We'd be lucky to have Gunnar get a top 15 pick. I'm thinking a bit closer to 20th like Kyle Quincey who was traded for 19th overall pick in the draft last year. Something else I'd look at it as a deal around Gunnar for Stastny who'd be that upgrade we need at center.
These 4 guys are basically my off-season wish list on D.

I think Liles is who ends up getting dealt. I'd like them to add another Gunnarsson like defender, just with some bite and keep Gunnarsson. It would give Phaneuf and Gardiner both a steady partner so they can try things offensively and for Phaneuf physically.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger/Scuderi
Fraser/Rielly - Franson
ex. Holzer

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05-09-2013, 11:00 PM
  #673
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
These 4 guys are basically my off-season wish list on D.

I think Liles is who ends up getting dealt. I'd like them to add another Gunnarsson like defender, just with some bite and keep Gunnarsson. It would give Phaneuf and Gardiner both a steady partner so they can try things offensively and for Phaneuf physically.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger/Scuderi
Fraser/Rielly - Franson
ex. Holzer
20 year old Granberg is 6'3", 209 lbs., and I've read a more physical Gunnarsson.

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05-09-2013, 11:56 PM
  #674
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Than Kari Lehtonen?
That's what I said.

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05-10-2013, 12:01 AM
  #675
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Agreed on Cooke, don't want him anywhere near this team.

I've seen a few people mention D'Amigo now. He was great in the playoffs last year, but I've barely seen any Marlies games this year. How does he look, and is he someone who could realistically make the team next year?
You never know how he preforms in camp, but based on this year, he's not ready.

I think one of McLaren and Orr will be gone, and Ryan Hamilton will be the 13th forward.

I really like Greg Scott as well. I think he's someone we should give a good look at in camp.

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