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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings XIV - UFA talk now

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Old
05-10-2013, 01:02 AM
  #676
Jax Teller
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
20 year old Granberg is 6'3", 209 lbs., and I've read a more physical Gunnarsson.
I watched some of the 3rd period between Canada and Sweden yesterday. He needs to work on his skating. But, overall I liked his game. Smart and physical.

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05-10-2013, 03:18 AM
  #677
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Lehtonen is a solid goalie, but at the very least is no better then James Reimer.

In the 3 seasons Reimer has played, Lehtonen has been better once, and it was Reimer's concussion plagued season. He didn't even beat Reimer by that much.

Reimer is one of the top 3 reasons we are in the playoffs, has
excellent numbers. Why do we need another goalie?

I take Reimer over Lehtonen.


Last edited by Epictetus: 05-10-2013 at 03:25 AM.
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05-10-2013, 08:35 AM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Lehtonen is a solid goalie, but at the very least is no better then James Reimer.

In the 3 seasons Reimer has played, Lehtonen has been better once, and it was Reimer's concussion plagued season. He didn't even beat Reimer by that much.

Reimer is one of the top 3 reasons we are in the playoffs, has
excellent numbers. Why do we need another goalie?

I take Reimer over Lehtonen.
thankyou.


people think goalies wont make one mistake.

he's easily the most important part of our team.

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05-10-2013, 09:10 AM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Lehtonen is a solid goalie, but at the very least is no better then James Reimer.

In the 3 seasons Reimer has played, Lehtonen has been better once, and it was Reimer's concussion plagued season. He didn't even beat Reimer by that much.

Reimer is one of the top 3 reasons we are in the playoffs, has
excellent numbers. Why do we need another goalie?

I take Reimer over Lehtonen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4Z3M LUPUL View Post
thankyou.


people think goalies wont make one mistake.

he's easily the most important part of our team.
Here are the top 10 save percentage starters in the league this year. (Note ages)
Rank Player Team DOB Save %
1 Craig Anderson OTT May 21 '81 0.941
2 Sergei Bobrovsky CBJ Sep 20 '88 0.932
3 Tuukka Rask BOS Mar 10 '87 0.929
4 Cory Schneider VAN Mar 18 '86 0.927
5 Henrik Lundqvist NYR Mar 02 '82 0.926
6 Corey Crawford CHI Dec 31 '84 0.926
7 Antti Niemi SJS Aug 29 '83 0.924
8 James Reimer TOR Mar 15 '88 0.924
9 Jason LaBarbera PHX Jan 18 '80 0.923
10 Jimmy Howard DET Mar 26 '84 0.923

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Old
05-10-2013, 09:31 AM
  #680
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My earlier post on the subject of acquiring Jaybo:

He now a 30 point a year guy who doesn't hit. He has gone from a 15 goal a year guy to 6, and was the #4 Calgary D on the power play after starting his time there as the #1 guy. He led their 20th ranked PK in ice time (but they were better last year) so his game is changing, but he is not a defensive wall, so not sure what his big draw is. You would maybe have to try to convert him back to the offensive guy he was in Florida.

Gunnar played on a Leafs club that had a far worse record than Jaybos Flames and in 214 games he was +6 with 67 points. 4-5 guy.

Jaybo in that time played 280 games and was -36 with 97pts. Top pairing guy.

Dion played in 209 Leaf games and was -18 with 105pts. Top pairing obviously.

Franson career 230 games with 90pts and a +33 as a 4-5 guy.(playing for Nashville helped somewhat but the bad Leafs teams even it up)

I am not much of a Dion fan but he played on a Leafs club that was never above 22nd place before this year, and Jaybo on a Flames club that was not worse than 17th place at the same time. Dion still managed a much better plus minus, 50% more points per game, and actually threw the odd hit.

Gio, on the same Flames team was 257gp, 108pts and a +5 and also killed penalties.

The Leaf comps show results achieved in a far worse environment by less highly regarded players. The Gio results show what might have been possible. I am not certain what happened to the Bouwmeester of 2006, but that is the one we want, not the Calgary guy. You might get the old Jaybo back, or at least a different version than Calgary's, but you don't trade assets hoping for a time machine. As a UFA, if you only had one decent PMD, I think he is a great "get", but right now he has new whipping boy written all over him.

Giordano is the guy to get, if they would move him. He hits more, blocks more, more takeaways, plus more offense. Easy choice, because he just has to play the way he has been to make your club better where JB has to play like he used to years ago in Florida.

** After his trade to the Blues he continued to score at a sub 30pt pace with no hitting. A fresh team might bring a change but I wouldn't bet millions of dollars on him.
I am not worried about Jaybo physical game. Look at Dion running around and putting himself in stupid position cause of running after hits.

So is a guy like Dan Boyle not a good D cause he doesn't hit? I think there is more to playing D than hitting.

Now most players on Calgary suck balls and right now in St-Louis he looks good playing in a structured system which he would be doing in Toronto under Carlyle.

He moves the puck well can skate with it and understands how to play the man maybe not a huge hitter but still effective.

Its a 1 year contract and really the assets need to acquire him would be minimal as the Blues are in cap hell with all the RFA needed to be signed.

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Old
05-10-2013, 09:46 AM
  #681
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Originally Posted by ryno23 View Post
I am not worried about Jaybo physical game. Look at Dion running around and putting himself in stupid position cause of running after hits.

So is a guy like Dan Boyle not a good D cause he doesn't hit? I think there is more to playing D than hitting.

Now most players on Calgary suck balls and right now in St-Louis he looks good playing in a structured system which he would be doing in Toronto under Carlyle.

He moves the puck well can skate with it and understands how to play the man maybe not a huge hitter but still effective.

Its a 1 year contract and really the assets need to acquire him would be minimal as the Blues are in cap hell with all the RFA needed to be signed.
Bouwmeester had a much better season in Calgary this year and it is believed that the change of coaching was a big part of that. He can easily play the minutes that Phaneuf does, but I don't think the Leafs should be paying $13 million a year for the 1st. pairing.

Leafs still are a rebuilding team, and I'd prefer to see them fill in the 3rd. pairing from within. Eventually you want your draft picks in the NHL, or you might as well just trade the picks.

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05-10-2013, 10:28 AM
  #682
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Here are the top 10 save percentage starters in the league this year. (Note ages)
Rank Player Team DOB Save %
1 Craig Anderson OTT May 21 '81 0.941
2 Sergei Bobrovsky CBJ Sep 20 '88 0.932
3 Tuukka Rask BOS Mar 10 '87 0.929
4 Cory Schneider VAN Mar 18 '86 0.927
5 Henrik Lundqvist NYR Mar 02 '82 0.926
6 Corey Crawford CHI Dec 31 '84 0.926
7 Antti Niemi SJS Aug 29 '83 0.924
8 James Reimer TOR Mar 15 '88 0.924
9 Jason LaBarbera PHX Jan 18 '80 0.923
10 Jimmy Howard DET Mar 26 '84 0.923
I'm confused, they were referring to both Reimer and Lehtonen in their posts but you don't have Lehtonen listed in the top 10

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Old
05-10-2013, 10:40 AM
  #683
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
I'm confused, they were referring to both Reimer and Lehtonen in their posts but you don't have Lehtonen listed in the top 10
Must have been my mistake as 29 year old Lehtonen was 19th. so I should have listed the top 20 ...


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Old
05-10-2013, 11:08 AM
  #684
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I think we do agree, but I don't think Reimer is good enough to bale out bad defense in the way Cujo and Belfour could. But even they couldn't get us the Cup. I think Reimer is fine to win with, if we have better D throughout. Dropping everyone down a peg or two with the addition of a great #2 would be the best thing for us, but we will have to move out important pieces for that. Robidais could be the cheapest solution, if our scouts feel he is capable to eat up 20+ mins on a cup contender.
Robidas would be a good bandaid solution. Sort of calming veteran influence that will allow us to find a longer term solution for that spot. He can help mentor Phaneuf and some of the other young dman. He'd be what we wanted from Komisarek almost.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:21 AM
  #685
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I hope Morgan makes the team next year. I'd like to see:

Phaneuf
Franson
Gardiner
Rielly
Gunnarsson

Then maybe go out and get another vet, with Fraser as the 7th man. Trade Liles IMO.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #686
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St Louis gave their 1st up and a decent young OFD in Cundari, I doubt they'd turn around and sell Jaybo low. I'd consider a Gunnarson for Jaybo swap, but I doubt they would. St Louis isn't in nearly as bad a shape as people think.... If they lock up the following:

Stewart @ $5m
Berglund @ $3.75m
Pietrangelo @ $6m
Russell @ $2.3m
Cole @ $2.3m
Shattenkirk @ $5m

Langenbrunner - gone
McDonald - gone
Grachev - gone
Nichol - gone
Murray - gone
Leopold - gone

They are still $500k below the cap ceiling with 20 guys on their roster. They would be looking at the following lineup:

Perron Backes Oshie
Schwartz Berglund Stewart
Sobotka Steen Tarasenko
Porter Reaves


Pietrangelo Jaybo
Shattenkirk Jackman
Russell Cole

Polak
Hakanpaa


Halak
Elliot


Not a bad core. Now, if they need to clear approx $3m to sign 2-3 role players, what's a better option for them?

1. Trade Jaybo, return approx $3m in the player(s) coming back
2. Trade Roman Polak and his $2.75m for a pick/prospect
3. Trade Jackman and his $3.1m for a pick/prospect
4. Let Kris Russell walk

They could simply decide to let one of Kris Russell or Ian Cole walk - my guess is Russell walking. They won't have any issues signing a couple players with $2.5m and are set at least for next season. They could also decide to trade Polak AND let Russel walk, and go heavy in a UFA in the $3m-$4m/year range and beef up for the year.


Point is, they aren't in this dire situation for next year that some around here seem to suggest.

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Old
05-10-2013, 11:31 AM
  #687
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Gunnarsson is 10 months older than Franson, with 4 years experience on the small ice.

He is only going to get better.
Gunnarson still isn't mean enough nor does he make life difficult for the other team for the stabilizer type role he fills in the lineup.

If he's signed cheap sure we can keep him but ideally he's our #4/5 dman.

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05-10-2013, 11:34 AM
  #688
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These 4 guys are basically my off-season wish list on D.

I think Liles is who ends up getting dealt. I'd like them to add another Gunnarsson like defender, just with some bite and keep Gunnarsson. It would give Phaneuf and Gardiner both a steady partner so they can try things offensively and for Phaneuf physically.

Gunnarsson - Phaneuf
Gardiner - Ranger/Scuderi
Fraser/Rielly - Franson
ex. Holzer
Liles just won't return much in a trade but I like the D group you posted above.

I'd expect Liles to return something around a mid to late 2nd round pick plus a 3rd or 4th.

The biggest benefit of trading Liles could be cap relief for us to fill our center need.

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Old
05-10-2013, 12:13 PM
  #689
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Gunnarson still isn't mean enough nor does he make life difficult for the other team for the stabilizer type role he fills in the lineup.

If he's signed cheap sure we can keep him but ideally he's our #4/5 dman.
I expect he'll double his salary, but he's playing 2nd. hardest minutes on the defense.

http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

Franson has played a relatively easy position in comparison, but he's an offensive defender so that's to be expected.

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05-10-2013, 12:28 PM
  #690
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How about we get some bigger players in our lineup?

Mcarthur is a good player, but he and Grabovski don't fit into our team anymore, lets trade them away, also I don't see how Colborne can play a role with this team anymore, I would trade him too, and with that lets add these guys: Dustin Penner - 3mil/year? David Clarkson - 3mil/year?

And a good solid defencemen that wont cost us an arm and a leg like a Robyn Regher.

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05-10-2013, 12:36 PM
  #691
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How about we get some bigger players in our lineup?

Mcarthur is a good player, but he and Grabovski don't fit into our team anymore, lets trade them away, also I don't see how Colborne can play a role with this team anymore, I would trade him too, and with that lets add these guys: Dustin Penner - 3mil/year? David Clarkson - 3mil/year?

And a good solid defencemen that wont cost us an arm and a leg like a Robyn Regher.

So you want bigger players in the lineup but you also want to trade what would be our biggest player in Colborne, while creating a hole he would fill by trading Grabo?

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05-10-2013, 12:49 PM
  #692
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I expect he'll double his salary, but he's playing 2nd. hardest minutes on the defense.

http://somekindofninja.com/nhl/usage...Update+Results

Franson has played a relatively easy position in comparison, but he's an offensive defender so that's to be expected.
I'm not saying Gunnar is a bad player but someone like Ranger, Scuderi is a direct replacement for him. We're fully stocked on LD moving forward with Gardiner playing 20-25 next year, Fraser can play 15, we've still Liles and Rielly will probably crack the roster. Ranger, Scuderi are also natural lefties and Finn could be ready in 2 or 3 seasons.

Franson will come in on a cheaper contract than Gunnar because he has less of a body of work to negotiate with. Lower cap hit will have value as well as he plays the right side.

Gunnar doesn't have to go but his true value might lie in helping us acquire a top center or a good draft pick.

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05-10-2013, 12:54 PM
  #693
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I'm not saying Gunnar is a bad player but someone like Ranger, Scuderi is a direct replacement for him. We're fully stocked on LD moving forward with Gardiner playing 20-25 next year, Fraser can play 15, we've still Liles and Rielly will probably crack the roster. Ranger, Scuderi are also natural lefties and Finn could be ready in 2 or 3 seasons.

Franson will come in on a cheaper contract than Gunnar because he has less of a body of work to negotiate with. Lower cap hit will have value as well as he plays the right side.

Gunnar doesn't have to go but his true value might lie in helping us acquire a top center or a good draft pick.
Ranger I wouldn't put much faith in. Seriously, he just might not have what it takes to be a NHL defender. More power to him if he's putting his individual well being above the mighty dollar.

UFA's aren't going to be cheaper than Gunnarsson if you expect to get anything that can play on the 1st. pairing.

I don't know any team that is going to give up a 1st. line center for anything that doesn't include a 1st. round pick, blue chip prospect and #2 defender.

Leafs should just do it the draft and develop method.

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05-10-2013, 12:59 PM
  #694
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Ranger I wouldn't put much faith in. Seriously, he just might not have what it takes to be a NHL defender. More power to him if he's putting his individual well being above the mighty dollar.

UFA's aren't going to be cheaper than Gunnarsson if you expect to get anything that can play on the 1st. pairing.

I don't know any team that is going to give up a 1st. line center for anything that doesn't include a 1st. round pick, blue chip prospect and #2 defender.

Leafs should just do it the draft and develop method.

Agreed. And it's because of that #1C fact that it's more economical for us to trade up and draft the #1C opposed to trading for him.

Really, really hope Nonis does this.

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05-10-2013, 01:01 PM
  #695
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Ranger I wouldn't put much faith in. Seriously, he just might not have what it takes to be a NHL defender. More power to him if he's putting his individual well being above the mighty dollar.

UFA's aren't going to be cheaper than Gunnarsson if you expect to get anything that can play on the 1st. pairing.

I don't know any team that is going to give up a 1st. line center for anything that doesn't include a 1st. round pick, blue chip prospect and #2 defender.

Leafs should just do it the draft and develop method.
From what I saw of Ranger he was more then capable of stepping back into a top 4 role.

Gunnarson as the centerpiece for Stastny makes sense. Avs need help on D even after they draft Jones and need to start turning the corner. Stastny is a great buy low candidate whose only 27 scored at a PPG pace for an extended period of time so he has big upside (similar to how we got Phaneuf/Lupul) and comes with a big cap hit (but his trade value would reflect that).

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05-10-2013, 01:34 PM
  #696
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From what I saw of Ranger he was more then capable of stepping back into a top 4 role.

Gunnarson as the centerpiece for Stastny makes sense. Avs need help on D even after they draft Jones and need to start turning the corner. Stastny is a great buy low candidate whose only 27 scored at a PPG pace for an extended period of time so he has big upside (similar to how we got Phaneuf/Lupul) and comes with a big cap hit (but his trade value would reflect that).

I think his point was that it doesn't matter how he looked, but that it depended solely on what he wants rather than what he can or cannot do. He could have played top-pairing minutes in Tampa, but he chose not to, not because he couldn't.

Trying to convince Colorado to jump aboard the 'buy low' concept with Stastny is a lost cause.... hope the Avs brass doesn't align with that. I'd love to see Stas here for a reasonable return ie. Gunnarson + rights to Bozak.

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05-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #697
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St Louis gave their 1st up and a decent young OFD in Cundari, I doubt they'd turn around and sell Jaybo low. I'd consider a Gunnarson for Jaybo swap, but I doubt they would. St Louis isn't in nearly as bad a shape as people think.... If they lock up the following:
...
They are still $500k below the cap ceiling with 20 guys on their roster. They would be looking at the following lineup:
...
St. Louis has an internal cap and I highly doubt they're looking at reaching the 64m ceiling. It wouldn't surprise me if they move JayBo as well as Shattenkirk (doubtful unless they can't come to an agreement), although my guess is that they may move Halak + Cole while electing Jake Allen to be the full time back up for them.

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05-10-2013, 02:04 PM
  #698
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St. Louis has an internal cap and I highly doubt they're looking at reaching the 64m ceiling. It wouldn't surprise me if they move JayBo as well as Shattenkirk (doubtful unless they can't come to an agreement), although my guess is that they may move Halak + Cole while electing Jake Allen to be the full time back up for them.
They would not have spent assets on JBo if tehy weren't sure they planned on keeping him. I sincrely doubt that he will be available come the offseason.

Makes much more sense for them to move Halak instead of JBo.

JBo will be a Blue until the end of his contract.

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05-10-2013, 02:11 PM
  #699
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They would not have spent assets on JBo if tehy weren't sure they planned on keeping him. I sincrely doubt that he will be available come the offseason.

Makes much more sense for them to move Halak instead of JBo.

JBo will be a Blue until the end of his contract.
Couldn't agree more. The 'internal' cap has been mute in St Louis since 2010. They have a perennial contender now, and until they can replace their top-pairing D, they will retain him and continue to contend. Jaybo will take a reduction in salary following next season and I'm sure St Louis would love to keep him there with how he's been playing for them so far.

Could also see them moving Halak too.. they have lots of options instead of moving Jaybo 'for next to nothing'.

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05-10-2013, 04:14 PM
  #700
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I think his point was that it doesn't matter how he looked, but that it depended solely on what he wants rather than what he can or cannot do. He could have played top-pairing minutes in Tampa, but he chose not to, not because he couldn't.

Trying to convince Colorado to jump aboard the 'buy low' concept with Stastny is a lost cause.... hope the Avs brass doesn't align with that. I'd love to see Stas here for a reasonable return ie. Gunnarson + rights to Bozak.
Considering Stats is overpaid, Colorado doesn't spend to the cap and needs Dmen more then they need picks I feel Gunnarson is a fair return.

Gunnarson will be their for multiple years, would fit as a 2nd pairing dman at the rate of what a 2nd pairing dman should get paid (3 millionish) and Toronto takes a shot on a center regaining form and gets first crack at getting him inked before he hits UFA status.

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