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Old
04-14-2013, 03:46 PM
  #151
EastCoastNiner
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Originally Posted by RedeyeRocketeer View Post
This is the deepest full roster he's ever had. If they lose in round 1 in the 2-7 or even 4-5 in some sort of lopsided effort, I could see him being canned.

1 round buys him a year or more.
Is this the same deep roster that apparently has a $6mil cap hit player (next year) that is supposedly lazy, another winger that can't get a shot off, and a goalie that supposedly can't make the "big save"?

I'm not saying you in particular, but people can't have it both ways by saying these players sucks or are playing poorly, yet claim this is Julien's best team with the way the've been playing.

If they can play to their potential, I feel very good about their chances, but they need to hit their stride soon. Hopefully they are saving it for the playoffs.

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04-14-2013, 03:47 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
Sorry, but this is just a terrible comparison, and I think you know that. I understand your thought of coaches getting fired after a few years because things go sour, but lets take a look at one BIG difference............


2011-2012: Jaques Martin had the Habs with a 13-12-7 record, with the Habs picking third overall in this years draft.

2008-2009: Peter Laviolette had the Hurricanes at a 12-11-2 record............while missing the playoffs the two seasons before.

2012-2013: Guy Boucher had the Lighting at a 13-17-1 record while missing the playoffs the year before.


To compare their firings to what Julien is doing this year is off-base, to put it as nicely as possible. Claude Julien has not missed the playoffs since he's been here, has three division championships, and could have a fourth one this year.

Even when Julien was fired before, his teams were in the playoffs/contention with 94 points and 107 points respectively.

Not....even.....comprable.
Honestly don 't know the answer. Care to tell me what the payrolls were for Laviolette when he was with Carolina?

Also Laviolette won the Cup and went to the finals also with Michael Leighton as his goalie. Care to tell
me who CJ had on his finals?

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04-14-2013, 03:49 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
Is this the same deep roster that apparently has a $6mil cap hit player (next year) that is supposedly lazy, another winger that can't get a shot off, and a goalie that supposedly can't make the "big save"?

I'm not saying you in particular, but people can't have it both ways by saying these players sucks or are playing poorly, yet claim this is Julien's best team with the way the've been playing.

If they can play to their potential, I feel very good about their chances, but they need to hit their stride soon. Hopefully they are saving it for the playoffs.
I said deep, I didn't say best. I totally agree that a lot of people are dogging it. But the team has 3 spare nhl level defense, and perhaps 4 spare nhl level forwards, and certainly 1 spare nhl level goalie. It's a deep team. It's built for the stress of a deep run. But Pev on line 4....that's the deepest I can think for any Bruin team in my lifetime.

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04-14-2013, 03:51 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
I'm honestly asking, are you slightly slow and like to point to one series as your main point?


Julien has not missed the playoffs since he's been here, and the two times he was fired he had his teams in great position.

I already told you that Laviolette is far worse at adjusting, would likely have Bergeron and Marchand playing now with their concussions, and has lost his team as you will see the Flyers fan base has been adamant about.

How about you let this sink in your head. Julien has not missed the playoffs since he's been here, and has finished first place in the Northeast 3/5 years.

If you'd like to try and explain how Laviolette is better (which you can't) besides saying, "Herp derp, all those coaches are about equal just because I said so", I'' be waiting.
Because the records / resumes are very close. J just gave you EVIDENCE regarding Laviolette.
He has won a Cup, been to the finals with Michael Leighton as his netminder and came back kn
CJ from down 3-0 with Leighton as his goalie. That's not hero derp. Those are facts.

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04-14-2013, 03:53 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Marshmont Flavor View Post
Well good lord, this site will never be boring, that's for sure.



Anyhoo....thanks for the offering. This is actually one of the more productive discussions I've had, even if we might have differing opinions. It can be done!
Wow thats the first compliment I received on this board, although I rarely post. I have been lurking for years, but went on a posting binge this weekend. It's funny reading all the good posts kind of made me step back from the ledge and think a bit I will no longer Criticize Claude until all the troops are back and we have a playoff result. All thanks to you!

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04-14-2013, 03:59 PM
  #156
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Honestly don 't know the answer. Care to tell me what the payrolls were for Laviolette when he was with Carolina?

Also Laviolette won the Cup and went to the finals also with Michael Leighton as his goalie. Care to tell
me who CJ had on his finals?
There you go, you're getting better by actually saying WHY you believe he is equal/better and providing some, albeit little, reasoning.

Yes, the Hurricanes were in the middle of the pack in 2005-2006 with their teams salary cap. Just like people like to say Julien had Thomas, the Hurricanes had Ward who played extremely well during those playoffs and won a Conny Smyth. Oh, and that season was right after the lockout where Laviolette kept his same system where teams had not yet adjusted to post-lockout play. The next two seasons after adjusting to his style of play, the Hurricanes missed the playoffs.

And, yes, the Flyers did go to the ECF ins 2009-2010 where they also had great goal scores in Jeff Carter, Simon Gagne, and Danny Brierre. Hell, they even had Giroux and JVR, albeit they were young.

In front of Leighton they had one of the best defensemen in the league who is also an elite playoff performer while having another great defeseman in Timmonen who could move the puck like crazy.


It's not as black and white as you want to make it seem.


Last edited by EastCoastNiner: 04-14-2013 at 04:05 PM.
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04-14-2013, 04:08 PM
  #157
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I personally think Julien is incapable of making any substantial adjustments. I'd love to see him removed and a new coach brought in. My short list of candidates:

Ted Nolan
Bruce Cassidy
Katey Stone
Pat Quinn

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04-14-2013, 04:09 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
To compare their firings to what Julien is doing this year is off-base, to put it as nicely as possible. Claude Julien has not missed the playoffs since he's been here, has three division championships, and could have a fourth one this year.

Even when Julien was fired before, his teams were in the playoffs/contention with 94 points and 107 points respectively.

Not....even.....comprable.
Sorry, when I look up to the rafters, I look for Stanley Cup banners, not division championships. And in all those years of regular season success his teams went out in the first or second round 5 times. Not exactly stunning success.

I'm not saying those losses were all on him. Like in all team sports, the blame can be spread around. But purporting that his record is one of the reasons he's deemed irreplaceable seems a little much.

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04-14-2013, 04:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by dickiedunnwrotethis View Post
Sorry, when I look up to the rafters, I look for Stanley Cup banners, not division championships. And in all those years of regular season success his teams went out in the first or second round 5 times. Not exactly stunning success.

I'm not saying those losses were all on him. Like in all team sports, the blame can be spread around. But purporting that his record is one of the reasons he's deemed irreplaceable seems a little much.
That was in comparison to the coaches that he listed.

Sure, championships are the most important, but by that logic, the Bruins never really had a good coach until Julien for almost 40 years, right?

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04-14-2013, 04:15 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
There you go, you're getting better by actually saying WHY you believe he is equal/better and providing some, albeit little, reasoning.

Yes, the Hurricanes were in the middle of the pack in 2005-2006 with their teams salary cap. Just like people like to say Julien had Thomas, the Hurricanes had Ward who played extremely well during those playoffs and won a Conny Smyth. Oh, and that season was right after the lockout where Laviolette kept his same system where teams had not yet adjusted to post-lockout play. The next two seasons after adjusting to his style of play, the Hurricanes missed the playoffs.

And, yes, the Flyers did go to the ECF ins 2009-2010 where they also had great goal scores in Jeff Carter, Simon Gagne, and Danny Brierre. Hell, they even had Giroux and JVR, albeit they were young.

In front of Leighton they had one of the best defensemen in the league who is also an elite playoff performer while having another great defeseman in Timmonen who could move the puck like crazy.


It's not as black and white as you want to make it seem.
Little reasoning? Haha Laviolette had less resources when he won than CJ in 2011. He had
a career minor league goalie getting to the finals in 2010. He also coached a team to an accomplishment bog achieved in like 35 years. Ok I'm done u can go worship at your
Shrine of CJ...lol.

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04-14-2013, 04:19 PM
  #161
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Little reasoning? Haha Laviolette had less resources when he won than CJ in 2011. He had
a career minor league goalie getting to the finals in 2010. He also coached a team to an accomplishment bog achieved in like 35 years. Ok I'm done u can go worship at your
Shrine of CJ...lol.
I don't have a shrine of Julien.

If you were using Hitchcock, Babcock, and Trotz as the coaches you think are equal or better (you listed them and I never denied them), that's fine, but you keep saying Laviolette is equal or better which is just not true.

Also, notsureifsrs with you saying he had less resources than Julien did in 2010-2011. I would rather have the 2010-2011 Bruins over that Hurricanes roster, but the Hurricanes had FOUR 30+ goal scores and FOUR 70+ point producers that season. You make it seem like they were some poverty team.

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04-14-2013, 04:26 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
I'm honestly asking, are you slightly slow and like to point to one series as your main point?


Julien has not missed the playoffs since he's been here, and the two times he was fired he had his teams in great position.
I beg to differ. Julien was fired by Lou Lamoriello with weeks left in the season precisely because Lamoriello felt Julien didn't have the Devils ready for the playoffs. This wasn't a case of a "Mad Mike" making some wacky decision, this was from a general manager who built a Mickey Mouse franchise into a three cup winner. He may or may not have been right, but he does have credibility in making hockey decsions.

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04-14-2013, 04:27 PM
  #163
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I'll say that he shouldn't be immune just because of past success, and if they go 1 and done again maybe you pull the trigger on him. Really it depends on if he's lost the locker room or not, which is hard to tell from the outside.

That said, I still have faith that Claude is the right coach. Once Bergy and Marchand are back hopefully his line choices will be better. He's had problems adjusting to having his two best forwards and arguably players out of the lineup, which is a tough thing to do for ANY coach.

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04-14-2013, 04:56 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by EastCoastNiner View Post
That was in comparison to the coaches that he listed.

Sure, championships are the most important, but by that logic, the Bruins never really had a good coach until Julien for almost 40 years, right?
I guess I'm confused in that it seems that the goal posts are moving. Is he a good coach because he has had regular season success? Or is he a good coach because he is maximizing the potential of all his players?

To answer your question, I think there have been a number of good coaches (Cherry, O'Reilly, etc) in the last 40 years who had good regular season success and even some playoff success. And they were replaced. Good coaches get fired in this league all the time. You can be a good coach and still not be right for a team for a particular time. Julien brought in stability and structure and had a magical run 2 years ago. Does that mean he gets a free pass ad infinitum? I don't think so. Does he deserve some credit and some slack? Yes - about 2 years worth. And then you have ask if he's maximizing the potential of his players. As of right now, and for the most part of this year and last year's playoffs, my eye test says no.

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04-14-2013, 05:31 PM
  #165
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Yeah sure, lets fire our all time franchise winningest Coach for being in 2nd in the Division, and 1 point out of first. Yeah, thats it.

Someone needs to lay off the bath salts.

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04-14-2013, 06:37 PM
  #166
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I'm not choosing sides on this debate but I'm going to toss it out there:

If the Bruins are 1 and done this year, should Claude be brought back? Why or why not?

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04-14-2013, 06:39 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Schmautzie View Post
I'm not choosing sides on this debate but I'm going to toss it out there:

If the Bruins are 1 and done this year, should Claude be brought back? Why or why not?
It depends on how they go out, I think.

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04-14-2013, 06:43 PM
  #168
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It depends on how they go out, I think.
Let's say they lose in 6 games and the PP is horrendous where they lose 1 goal games.

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04-14-2013, 07:27 PM
  #169
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They won't get 2011 Thomasesque goaltending this year and they can't score. It's that simple. For the sake of the team we should hope they miss the playoffs entirely or get sweeped in the first round because that's the only way we'll see any changes in the coaching staff and on the player roster. If they squeek past first round by winning 4 games 1-0 and 2-1 on the back of one of their goaltenders only to go out in the 2nd round against a proper contender we'll see Julien for 2-3 more years and nothing will change.

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04-14-2013, 08:11 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmautzie View Post
I'm not choosing sides on this debate but I'm going to toss it out there:

If the Bruins are 1 and done this year, should Claude be brought back? Why or why not?
No, he should not be brought back if they lose round 1. This roster is good enough to go much further, and if they don't get by and their PP sucks with a healthy Bergeron, Marchand and Soderberg in the lineup, there's clearly a coaching issue. If you're not getting the most out of your roster, you're not doing your job.

I love Julien, and I think he's a great coach, but if the message isn't getting through anymore then there needs to be a change. That's how pro sports works. If you think he's such an amazing coach that he basically gets the benefit of the doubt forever, that's just not being realistic.

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04-14-2013, 08:13 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Schmautzie View Post
Let's say they lose in 6 games and the PP is horrendous where they lose 1 goal games.
If they're healthy? Then I'd say you have to look long and hard at moving on from Claude, as much as I hate to say it.

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04-14-2013, 08:23 PM
  #172
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Claude is the only head coach in Bruins' history to win both a Stanley Cup and a Jack Adams Award. Claude helped bring us a Cup when we had not won one in nearly 4 decades. Claude is one of the most successful coaches in team history and helped get this team back on track after quite a few years of being mediocre. The current team has had a lot of key injuries yet the Bs are contending for first place. Yes, he's stubborn. Yes, the PP sucks under him. However, I want to see winning hockey and Claude brings that element. Not sure how in the hell people can want this guy fired two years off of a Cup season and with a team currently sitting pretty, and only going to get better once our star gets back with the team. ****ing hell, this fire Claude talk is beyond stupid.

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04-14-2013, 08:23 PM
  #173
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Good question.

If they go out in 1, and play like they've been playing lately, then yes IMO, it is re-evaluation time.

Also, if the PP is part of the problem in the Playoffs and it costs them, then CJ as the Brigadier, will have to be held accountable.

This problem with the PP has gone on way, way too long, and PC should not stop at anything to get on top of it and stamp out this lingering stink.

As for firing him now?

That is ludacris.

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04-14-2013, 08:32 PM
  #174
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Good question.

If they go out in 1, and play like they've been playing lately, then yes IMO, it is re-evaluation time.

Also, if the PP is part of the problem in the Playoffs and it costs them, then CJ as the Brigadier, will have to be held accountable.

This problem with the PP has gone on way, way too long, and PC should not stop at anything to get on top of it and stamp out this lingering stink.

As for firing him now?

That is ludacris.
Jagr has fixed the power play. I mean, it's insane that it took acquiring one of the top 5 most talented offensive players in NHL history to do it, but the Bruins have finally had a respectable power play. Sure, the 5 minute major against New Jersey was a doozy, but that's gonna happen to any team. They should have had a couple PP goals against Carolina, but Peters beast moded them. Also, keep in mind Hamilton did not play the last two games, and he's also a PP threat.

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04-14-2013, 08:39 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by bowline View Post
I already have... 3-0, 3-0. Guess who the coaches were? Lol

So best case CJ has been fired as often as Laviolette or once more depending on this year. Yeah
that really proves your point.

Keep trying ECN
What about 4-0

Who were the coaches there?

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