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Old
04-23-2005, 01:09 PM
  #1
Joe T Choker
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OT - Titans NFL Draft Thread

Adam "Pac Man" Jones
5'9", 187, 4.38-40 yd dash

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/dr...player?id=9049

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04-23-2005, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
Adam "Pac Man" Jones
5'9", 187, 4.38-40 yd dash

http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfldraft/dr...player?id=9049

Got to admit, I haven't seen Pacman play live, but the clips they showed of him, he really looked SMALL out there at 5'9. I know he has great speed and atheleticism, but he is gonna get dominated by the Randy Moss, Terrel Owens, etc, Pro prototypes that are big AND athletic.

I think if I am the Titans, I go for Antrel Rolle or Carlos Rodgers both at 6'0" 200, with 4.5 speed.

I guess, the only other thought, is if Fisher has big plans for Pacman to return kicks and punts...that may sway me to go with him as he did.

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04-23-2005, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
Got to admit, I haven't seen Pacman play live, but the clips they showed of him, he really looked SMALL out there at 5'9. I know he has great speed and atheleticism, but he is gonna get dominated by the Randy Moss, Terrel Owens, etc, Pro prototypes that are big AND athletic.

I think if I am the Titans, I go for Antrel Rolle or Carlos Rodgers both at 6'0" 200, with 4.5 speed.

I guess, the only other thought, is if Fisher has big plans for Pacman to return kicks and punts...that may sway me to go with him as he did.
with the subtractions of Derrick Mason & Samari Rolle ... this pick is PERFECT in both aspects

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04-23-2005, 02:02 PM
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I just don't like small corners, no matter how athletic they are...

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04-23-2005, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
I just don't like small corners, no matter how athletic they are...
Yeah, but many in the NFL feel there will be a trend towards smaller, faster corners who can blanket NFL type recievers without drawing any illegal contact penalties.

I'd have gone with Carlos Rogers if I was looking at only corners. He is the cross between Rolle and PacMan in my opinion. He's the hardest hitter and best against the run as well. He would have been a solid pick, but neither of the three are top 10 picks in a strong draft.

I'd probably have gone with Mike Williams if I couldn't trade out. It amazes me that people get so caught up in numbers despite evidence to the contrary. If Williams runs a 4.45, he's taken ahead of Braylon Edwards. I guess I don't get as caught up in measurables as the NFL brass.

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04-23-2005, 03:27 PM
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We needed a blazing cb, especially with Samari gone. Lets not forget....we had an undersized dominant corner for years and it worked out fine. If Pacman can stay healthy and play close to Samari's game, we will have an elite cover corner.

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04-23-2005, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
we had an undersized dominant corner for years and it worked out fine.
Who is this?

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04-23-2005, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
Who is this?
I was thinking of Samari Rolle. He isn't big and is very small weight wise. They have him listed as 6 feet 175.....I think the height is generous. TO give you an idea - NFL.com also has Pacman as listed 5'11 187........both are small guys IMO, and Samari was a dominant cover corner his entire tenure here.

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04-23-2005, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I was thinking of Samari Rolle. He isn't big and is very small weight wise. They have him listed as 6 feet 175.....I think the height is generous. TO give you an idea - NFL.com also has Pacman as listed 5'11 187........both are small guys IMO, and Samari was a dominant cover corner his entire tenure here.

ESPN has Pacman @ 5'9 1/2" and that looked generous on his video clips..

I have just seen that small corner get beat in the corner of the end zone too many times for my taste....

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04-23-2005, 04:22 PM
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Samari is 6 feet according to TSN, ESPN & NFL.com

Adam Jones is 5' 9 1/2" (ESPN & TSN) (5' 11" NFL) 2 and a half inches is ALOT in this league ... jump ball after jump ball is going to kill us, when we go against athletic WR's

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04-23-2005, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I was thinking of Samari Rolle. He isn't big and is very small weight wise. They have him listed as 6 feet 175.....I think the height is generous. TO give you an idea - NFL.com also has Pacman as listed 5'11 187........both are small guys IMO, and Samari was a dominant cover corner his entire tenure here.
Oh, I just didn't consider Rolle small. At 6', he's about average to above average in height.

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04-23-2005, 07:39 PM
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Geez, this Pac Man pick looks pretty bad right now. They needed to address the wide receiver position badly (second worse after CB), and They are not going to get the immediate help they needed. 7 receivers went off the board before the Titans drafted in the second round which left the Titans picking from a bare bones group. I would have been ecstatic taking Williams and Webster/Miller in the second, assuming we didn't trade around. That would have given us two starters. As it is, we are leaving the draft without a true quality receiver, leaving the offense scraping for wideouts.

They had solid positioning in a draft very deep in both wide receivers and CB's and managed to only dip in to one pool. They were very lucky in that their biggest weaknesses were this drafts biggest strengths (other than RB), yet the Titans didn't capitalize.

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04-23-2005, 09:37 PM
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I don't understand this 2nd pick for Michael Roos OT OT | (6'6", 320, 5.27) from lowly Eastern Washington when Kalif Barnes OT | (6'5", 305, 4.93) Washington was still on the board at OT and still considered an elite prospect.

If they are going to take a chance on a small school guy with the physical tools, why not go for Vincent Jackson WR | (6'4", 241, 4.51) from Northern Colorado, or at least Terence Murphy WR | (6'0", 202, 4.45) from Texas A&M to fill their biggest need. With trading down 4 slots, they also lost the chance to go after Mark Bradley WR | (6'1", 201, 4.4) from OKLAHOMA.


I just don't like either one of their first two picks, considering what else was available...

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04-23-2005, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
I don't understand this 2nd pick for Michael Roos OT OT | (6'6", 320, 5.27) from lowly Eastern Washington when Kalif Barnes OT | (6'5", 305, 4.93) Washington was still on the board at OT and still considered an elite prospect.

If they are going to take a chance on a small school guy with the physical tools, why not go for Vincent Jackson WR | (6'4", 241, 4.51) from Northern Colorado, or at least Terence Murphy WR | (6'0", 202, 4.45) from Texas A&M to fill their biggest need. With trading down 4 slots, they also lost the chance to go after Mark Bradley WR | (6'1", 201, 4.4) from OKLAHOMA.


I just don't like either one of their first two picks, considering what else was available...

I'll accept the Roos pick because I have to. We made our bed with the selection of Pac Man and then sitting idly by hoping to God that some respectable receiver fell to us. Bradley is a big gamble and wouldn't be the answer to our needs next year. He's a year or two away from contributing to the Titans cause.

The Titans really botched this. We had a legit chance to get both a top 5-7 CB AND a top 5-7 WR and instead we get a top 3 CB and nothing else. I would rather have taken a player of lesser caliber at CB in order to nab a player of any respectable caliber at WR.

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04-24-2005, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick
ESPN has Pacman @ 5'9 1/2" and that looked generous on his video clips..

I have just seen that small corner get beat in the corner of the end zone too many times for my taste....
"Pacman Jones is a big-play cornerback who also excelled as one of college football's premier return specialists. He is considered by many to be the finest defensive player produced at West Virginia in the last decade. In two seasons as a starter at the demanding "bandit" cornerback position, he allowed only one touchdown catch, and that was the result of losing site of the ball in a glaring sun." - nfl.com scouting report

"In 36 career games, Jones finished with 201 career tackles, 22 pass breakups, nine tackles for losses, eight interceptions and two each in sacks, forced fumbles and fumble recoveries. He returned 59 career kickoffs for 1,475 yards and one touchdown and he returned 27 punts for 404 yards for an average of 11.2 yards per return." espn.com report

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04-24-2005, 01:04 AM
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Smokey, Pacman will be a corner in this league. Whether or not he is the no. 1 we want, has yet to be seen, but God help us......he has to be better than Dyson...The thing is this draft did not have front-loaded talent. No one was willing to make a big trade because the talent simply was not there - depth was. Unfortunately, WR (being a glamour position) gets taken exclusively early. The players we would need to keep our offense up to par, were either A) already off the board, or B) could be had by trading back. No one wanted to give up something signficant, so we stood pat and took a burner CB filling a need we still desperately have.....A lot of people want Rolle, but there is no doubt that PacMan was more consistent of the two. I personally saw Rolle play poorly several times, however, I think we all wanted Antrel because of his physical completeness. Samari's injury problems (due to his sticklike figure) and lack of run support has scared us torward the position of cover corners. Thankfully the initial scouting reports suggest that Pacman is a non-stopping motor with speed and a lot of physicality. I doubt he is effective as Rolle (who would be a great blitzer), but he also has more speed and coverage ability than Rolle. We picked our poison. Now we have to live with it. At the least, there is no denying that Jones is talented and would have been selected by the 8th, or 9th pick respectively. If we traded down, we would almost assuredly not have gotten the CB we wanted. Look at the later rounds of the draft - CB is the most highly sought after position.

BTW - can you imagine finally having a player that has the speed to do this??

http://www.ice750.com/PacManJones.wmv

I never want to see Troy Fleming catching kickoffs again.

Roos went where he needed to. Berman said that he had heard from several good coaches that Roos was a very intriguing second round pick. The guy flew up the charts after shuting down Marcus Spears at the Senior bowl. Here are Fisher's comments on Roos -


"It came down to Roos, (Washington tackle Khalif) Barnes, and one additional player. We at one point had considered moving up just to assure ourselves of being able to get one of them, and then things started to happen and go our way. When Detroit called, we couldn't pass up their offer. As it was, when we selected, both Michael and Khalif were there on the board. Our board was accurate, and we've definitely addressed a need at the right tackle spot. We feel like Michael can come in and play and contribute. He has left tackle potential, and that's the key here. As we broke down and evaluated the tackles, you put a priority on your left tackle position obviously. We grouped them based on who can potentially play both, and we feel like Mike has the potential to eventually be a left tackle, but he can as we speak be able to come in and compete and contribute at right tackle as well."


The guy is from freakin Estonia....how awesome is that

We picked up a couple WR in the third round. Courtney Roby - 4.34 forty, 6'0, 189......and Brandon Jones - 4.45 forty, 6'-1 1/2", 200 lbs. Jones impressed me the most in his highlights (the kid has stellar hands and took beatings for his catches), but he had a bad senior year at Oklahoma. Roby looks to have speed, but I'm not sure what else he has. We will see.

We went classic rebuild in this draft. Elite corner in the first, LT in the second. Lets just hope they pan out because we don't have a lot of room for error. The only thing that really surprised me is that Reese continues to take project picks in Roos who everyone says is underrated and extremely talented......just needing work...


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04-24-2005, 03:20 PM
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I've met Rolle no way is he 6', he's not even 5'10". Anyway. Pac Man has a great verticle leap, didn't have better verticle than Antrel? So he can go up an get a ball, using hops instead of reach besides we already have a 6'1" corner on the other side.

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04-24-2005, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
I've met Rolle no way is he 6', he's not even 5'10". Anyway. Pac Man has a great verticle leap, didn't have better verticle than Antrel? So he can go up an get a ball, using hops instead of reach besides we already have a 6'1" corner on the other side.
yes its not like we have a slug on the other side of the field in Andre Woolfork 6' 2" 197

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04-24-2005, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_Strummer
yes its not like we have a slug on the other side of the field in Andre Woolfork 6' 2" 197
If past history is any indicator, we have as good of a chance of seeing Woolfolk in street clothes as we do of him on the field. In two years, he's missed half of the teams games.

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04-24-2005, 05:43 PM
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ugh Woolfork...how early is it to label him a bust. Mort just got done saying that we had a really good draft, so I guess time will tell. I don't think we have a big time WR in this draft, I think that could be a problem down the road. But not too bad overall.

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04-24-2005, 11:28 PM
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I have to say, I really like Brandon Jones our last third round pick. The guy has super hands and isn't afraid to go over the middle. He isn't a deep threat, but if Calico remains healthy we don't need a deep threat...we just need guys that can get possession yards. I wasn't too optimistic with our chances, but I am beginning to feel optimistic. All of the guys we drafted have great hands, even the tight end, and with Ben Troupe getting better, a healthy Erron Kinney, and a healthy Tyrone Calico - our offense shouldn't lose that much of a step, especially with Mcnair back and ready to go.

Oh and Trggr, Pac man has a 38.5 inch vertical, wheras Antrel has a 37 inch vertical

Last year we went heavy on defensive line, this year we went heavy on the offensive line (3), wide receiver (3), and picked up a couple of corners. We are building a team for the future....

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04-24-2005, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch
I have to say, I really like Brandon Jones our last third round pick. The guy has super hands and isn't afraid to go over the middle. He isn't a deep threat, but if Calico remains healthy we don't need a deep threat...we just need guys that can get possession yards. I wasn't too optimistic with our chances, but I am beginning to feel optimistic. All of the guys we drafted have great hands, even the tight end, and with Ben Troupe getting better, a healthy Erron Kinney, and a healthy Tyrone Calico - our offense shouldn't lose that much of a step, especially with Mcnair back and ready to go.

Oh and Trggr, Pac man has a 38.5 inch vertical, wheras Antrel has a 37 inch vertical

Last year we went heavy on defensive line, this year we went heavy on the offensive line (3), wide receiver (3), and picked up a couple of corners. We are building a team for the future....

Jones is a respectable player, but we have way, way too many question marks on our offense. How will Bennett handle being the number one receiver? He had great success with Volek getting him the ball, but he's never been McNairs favorite receiver. Will Calico be mature enough and or healthy enough to make an impact? Will Brown be healthy enough to take the pressure off McNair? Will our offensive line be stable enough to open holes for Brown AND protect McNair.

Even after this draft, we have no solution to any of these situations if the answer is no. We had a chance to back up the WR position and while we have several projects that might turn into good receivers in time, they are likely a year or two away from being legit contributors. Roos will probably have an immediate impact on the offensive line whether he's ready or not. Still, if the pieces fall in to place, we should have a solid, if not spectacular offense, with a chance to be real good on this side of the ball.

The defense should also be better. We have a legit starting corner that hopefully can go with Woolfolk. We have also bolstered our CB depth. Safety should be respectable, as should our linebacking core and our DL should be solid too. But like our offense, it hinges on injuries. If Woolfolk can't stay healthy, we are going to get torched by mediocre passing games. Pac Man is a great pickup, but he can't guard all 3 receivers that teams will line up with.

If everything goes as planned, we'll be a solid team next year. But a few injuries to a few key positions and we'll be battling for the top pick in next years draft.

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04-25-2005, 12:34 AM
  #23
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Don't get me wrong - we aren't going to be a great team this year. I am not optimistic in the sense that we are going to make the playoffs....I was simply saying that we may be decently competitive. Realistically, we should be drafting about where we drafted at this point again next year. We took a lot of project picks, but we brought in two great teachers of the game this year in Ray Sherman (excellent WR coach) and Norm Chow (we all know what he does with offenses). We are rebuilding, I expect to suck next year, but I am hoping to see good things out of some of these players.

One reason why I think Jones fell is simply because of the talent on the team with him - Mark Clayton, Mark Bradley, and him were all on the team featuring Jason White and the dominant run game led by their freshman phenom.

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04-25-2005, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch

Oh and Trggr, Pac man has a 38.5 inch vertical, wheras Antrel has a 37 inch vertical
an inch and a half, that makes up for some of his height, his speed makes up for the rest.

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04-26-2005, 09:24 AM
  #25
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I still say Carlos Rogers was the best corner in the draft, but I'm pretty happy with Jones.

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