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Best young top-6 forward available for Cory Schneider

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Old
04-14-2013, 09:23 PM
  #151
Numbers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
As an Avs fan, living in Canada who has to watch the Leafs a lot, and by being an Avs fan watches the Canucks as well.

Reimer has been better then Schneider this year.
Some analysts have said Schneider could be a Vezina nominee this year, wonder what they think of Reimer lol. Schneider has only started in goal 3 times against the Avs, so it sure sounds like you have seen Schneider a lot this year. 3 game sample size hmmmmmm........

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04-14-2013, 09:25 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
The stats would say otherwise....

Vancouver wins no matter who is in net. Whether its Schneider(15-8-2, .925 sv%) or Lunongo(8-4-3, .911 sv%).

The Canucks don't win because of Schneider. They win because they have a good well balanced team.


On the other hand, Reimer(16-5-5, .922 sv%) has a much better stat ratio then Scrivens(7-8-0, .918 sv%).


The Leafs DO win because of Reimer. It cannot be made any more obvious then those numbers right there.
You dont watch enough canuck games and admitted so when you said you watch when the avs play the nucks, we had an awful injured line up where schneider and lou bailed us out many games and when we were generally playing awful hockey.

I also dont understand your logic at all, we have lou backing us up, so your right when you have a number 1 elite goalie backing you up, of course you win with your back up as well. Lou compared to scrivins is not comparable. If the lou to leafs trade did go through at the deadline would that change your opinion? I am sure lou could win the leafs many games when reimer is not playing.

All your saying is we have the best back up in the league who is also an incredible starting goalie, i dont understand how that devalues schneider? Maybe you should be comparing scrivins vs lou.

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04-14-2013, 09:26 PM
  #153
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
The stats would say otherwise....

Vancouver wins no matter who is in net. Whether its Schneider(15-8-2, .925 sv%) or Lunongo(8-4-3, .911 sv%).

The Canucks don't win because of Schneider. They win because they have a good well balanced team.


On the other hand, Reimer(16-5-5, .922 sv%) has a much better stat ratio then Scrivens(7-8-0, .918 sv%).


The Leafs DO win because of Reimer. It cannot be made any more obvious then those numbers right there.
You couldn't be more wrong.

I think you have watched Leafs, but aside fromt he Avs/Canucks matchups. You haven't watch the Canucks enough.

We actually haven't been a well rounded team. We had 1 top 9 NHL center on our lineup the entire year up until the trade deadline. Thats the exact opposite of well rounded.

The Defense struggle and have struggled. Ask any Canucks fan. Schneider is the team MVP. Schneider is why the Canucks win.

Schneider's GAA is significantly better than Riemer's and it has to be. Because the Cory gets less goal support than James does. Go look at the stats. the Canucks PP is much worse, and the GFPG stats are less.

Edit and speaking of numbers. How can you say we win with either goalie. When Scrivens has better numbers than Roberto. Lol. There a flaw in that argument. And the other flaw, is you forgetting to post the GAA stats. Aswell as the Team stats like PP, PK, GFPG, exc.

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04-14-2013, 09:29 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Some analysts have said Schneider could be a Vezina nominee this year, wonder what they think of Reimer lol. Schneider has only started in goal 3 times against the Avs, so it sure sounds like you have seen Schneider a lot this year. 3 game sample size hmmmmmm........
I still watch the Canucks outside of Avs games


Schneider should not be a vezina finalist. But if he is given consideration then Reimer should be given just as much if not more. Reimer has been very consistent and very good all year for the Leafs. He hasn't flat out stolen all that many games, but he hasn't cost them any either.

Schneider has been good for the Nucks to. But he also hasn't truly stolen many games for the Nucks(No more then Reimer for the Leafs at least), but like Reimer he also didn't cost them many games.

What it comes down to IMO, is the fact that the two goalies are both playing at very similar levels of play. But Schneider is doing it front of a team that has been cup contender for 3 years now, with tons of veterans and strong defensive players who know how to win. While Reimer is playing in front of a young, up and coming team about to make the playoffs for the 1st time in nearly 7 or 8 years.

Equal stats, but Reimer is doing it on the worst team, and makes his numbers more impressive.

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04-14-2013, 09:29 PM
  #155
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Schneider has the potential to be a Vezina candidate for years to come and one of the best goaltenders in the game. Unfortunately, goaltender's don't have the trade value that scorers do, even though a player like Schneider will probably have more value to his team that any player on that list.

The Canucks were wise to keep him, as trading him would have came back to haunt Vancouver.

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04-14-2013, 09:33 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
You couldn't be more wrong.

I think you have watched Leafs, but aside fromt he Avs/Canucks matchups. You haven't watch the Canucks enough.

We actually haven't been a well rounded team. We had 1 top 9 NHL center on our lineup the entire year up until the trade deadline. Thats the exact opposite of well rounded.

The Defense struggle and have struggled. Ask any Canucks fan. Schneider is the team MVP. Schneider is why the Canucks win.

Schneider's GAA is significantly better than Riemer's and it has to be. Because the Cory gets less goal support than James does. Go look at the stats. the Canucks PP is much worse, and the GFPG stats are less.

Edit and speaking of numbers. How can you say we win with either goalie. When Scrivens has better numbers than Roberto. Lol. There a flaw in that argument. And the other flaw, is you forgetting to post the GAA stats. Aswell as the Team stats like PP, PK, GFPG, exc.
None of those stats matter to what you said. All you said was Schneider wins Nucks games, while Reimer does.

I think its quite clear that for the Nucks it hasn't mattered who is in net. The 2 goalies are holding basically identical records.

While for the Leafs, they win when Reimer is in net, and they lose when Scrivens is in net.

If you want to get into the other stats fine, but your argument would have to change, otherwise as it is your argument is false.

And believe me, I have watched the Nucks more then the Leafs. Schneider had a very good stretch no doubt, but he was also pretty soft before that. And he was pretty soft in his last game() Reimer has had good stretches to.

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04-14-2013, 09:34 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
None of those stats matter to what you said. All you said was Schneider wins Nucks games, while Reimer does.

I think its quite clear that for the Nucks it hasn't mattered who is in net. The 2 goalies are holding basically identical records.

While for the Leafs, they win when Reimer is in net, and they lose when Scrivens is in net.

If you want to get into the other stats fine, but your argument would have to change, otherwise as it is your argument is false.

And believe me, I have watched the Nucks more then the Leafs. Schneider had a very good stretch no doubt, but he was also pretty soft before that. And he was pretty soft in his last game() Reimer has had good stretches to.
I guess you didn't watch the last game.

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04-14-2013, 09:37 PM
  #158
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Talk about a pointless argument, is Schneider better than Reimer? Yea probably a bit, but the gap isn't that significant (both have played like top 10 goalies this year) and Reimer is 2 years younger with just as much experience. The leafs don't need another goalie no matter how much the media talks about it and Vancouver would be foolish to trade Schneider when he has stolen the starting job.

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04-14-2013, 09:38 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I guess you didn't watch the last game.
The Avs and Nucks game? I watched it, and Schneider was pretty weak. The game winning goal for the Avs was very weak. Screen or not(there wasn't a big screen anyway) his positioning alone should have stopped that puck, it hit nothing on the way in.

The other 3 goals weren't his fault I would agree, but the 2nd and 3rd one's he could have stopped. It was bad defending on all 3. But McCleod, a 4th line fighter, made him look silly. And PAP didn't get a great shot off on the 3rd goal and it was low.

First one was a laughably bad play by Bieksa, and he was hung out to dry entirely on that one.

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04-14-2013, 09:40 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Talk about a pointless argument, is Schneider better than Reimer? Yea probably a bit, but the gap isn't that significant (both have played like top 10 goalies this year) and Reimer is 2 years younger with just as much experience. The leafs don't need another goalie no matter how much the media talks about it and Vancouver would be foolish to trade Schneider when he has stolen the starting job.
I think this is pretty spot on.

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04-14-2013, 09:40 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
I still watch the Canucks outside of Avs games


Schneider should not be a vezina finalist. But if he is given consideration then Reimer should be given just as much if not more. Reimer has been very consistent and very good all year for the Leafs. He hasn't flat out stolen all that many games, but he hasn't cost them any either.

Schneider has been good for the Nucks to. But he also hasn't truly stolen many games for the Nucks(No more then Reimer for the Leafs at least), but like Reimer he also didn't cost them many games.

What it comes down to IMO, is the fact that the two goalies are both playing at very similar levels of play. But Schneider is doing it front of a team that has been cup contender for 3 years now, with tons of veterans and strong defensive players who know how to win. While Reimer is playing in front of a young, up and coming team about to make the playoffs for the 1st time in nearly 7 or 8 years.

Equal stats, but Reimer is doing it on the worst team, and makes his numbers more impressive.
You couldn't be more wrong. Its actually kind of funny.

Schneider has stolen us plenty games. Since you apparently watch us. You should know that we went on a 6 game winning streak, due only to Cory Schneider's play. We got some goals but played terrible. Cory was in God mode and won us many point, then since you watch, you would know after that, we went on a losing stretch. Cory still played great, but the team didn't improve. And eventually Cory can't play like a God forever, so we started to Lose, Cory still gave us the chance to win every game, and more. The team was just terrible.

Now you are also wrong. The Leafs have played better than our team this year. They have had a better lineup, better special teams, better coaching, better goal support, better everything. Except goaltending.

Case and point, we have managed to stay where we are due to great goaltending, the Leafs have managed to get where they are (as opposed to prior years) based a full team effort every game.

Even the stats aren't equal. Ya SV% is the same.

but Schneiders GAA is easily better (2.14 for Cory, 2.45 for James)

More shutouts: (5 Shutouts for Cory, 2 for James)

He has also faced far far more PP shots against (110 for Cory, 83 for James)

Then as I said, all team stats point to Toronto being the better team.

All the statistics point to Cory being the better goaltender, behind the inferior team. Then when you watch the way Cory bails out our team on a nightly basis, thats evident.

Its clear you just don't know what your talking about when it pertains to Cory and our hockey team.

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04-14-2013, 09:41 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
None of those stats matter to what you said. All you said was Schneider wins Nucks games, while Reimer does.

I think its quite clear that for the Nucks it hasn't mattered who is in net. The 2 goalies are holding basically identical records.

While for the Leafs, they win when Reimer is in net, and they lose when Scrivens is in net.

If you want to get into the other stats fine, but your argument would have to change, otherwise as it is your argument is false.

And believe me, I have watched the Nucks more then the Leafs. Schneider had a very good stretch no doubt, but he was also pretty soft before that. And he was pretty soft in his last game() Reimer has had good stretches to.

Why do you think that is???? Scrivins vs lou..... We dont have a backup, we have one of the best goalies in the league as a backup, i dont understand how you can keep arguing with this. Of course we win with lou to, he is an outstanding top goalie in the league. If that lou for scrivins trade went through, would you somehow do a 180 because of the quality of backups?

And before leafs fans charge in, I am in no way saying reimer is not good, he has played very well and I think has been a great story so far this season, I just dont understand hawthornes argument.

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04-14-2013, 09:42 PM
  #163
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Anyways I'm done arguing about it. Especially with people who just don't flat at know whats going on.

We don't want to trade Cory. He has been outstanding this year, easily our team MVP. There is no interest in it at all.

I don't know why this thread was started and I wish it had been closed immediately.

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04-14-2013, 09:44 PM
  #164
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Would love to see Henrique out of the division. lol

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04-14-2013, 09:45 PM
  #165
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Anyways I'm done arguing about it. Especially with people who just don't flat at know whats going on.

We don't want to trade Cory. He has been outstanding this year, easily our team MVP. There is no interest in it at all.

I don't know why this thread was started and I wish it had been closed immediately.
I agree i like the op, but we have had 2-3 trade cory threads on here already this year with poor results and imo for someone who is unlikely to be traded especially at this point in time, i dont know why they keep coming.

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04-14-2013, 09:49 PM
  #166
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Schneider has been our mvp the past two months. Our defense hasn't played up to it's potential outside of Garrison and Tanev meanwhile the forwards have been crippled with injuries. Canucks would look stupid the next few years if they traded him away unless they got an impact forward back.

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04-14-2013, 10:01 PM
  #167
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Schneider has been our mvp the past two months. Our defense hasn't played up to it's potential outside of Garrison and Tanev meanwhile the forwards have been crippled with injuries. Canucks would look stupid the next few years if they traded him away unless they got an impact forward back.
Well that is basically what I'm saying. But if the choice is keep Schneider + scraps or Luongo + young impact forward, in my opinion it seems obvious which one we should go with.

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04-14-2013, 10:06 PM
  #168
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I'm pretty sure it would take an elite talent to displace a generational talent/player would it not?
Maybe it's just bad management? Like when Chicago traded Ed Belfour and put all their eggs into the Jeff Hackett basket and spent a decade in the basement...

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04-14-2013, 10:06 PM
  #169
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Well that is basically what I'm saying. But if the choice is keep Schneider + scraps or Luongo + young impact forward, in my opinion it seems obvious which one we should go with.
Yeah the 1st one.

Since the cap is droppping and Luongo wants to move on.

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04-14-2013, 10:07 PM
  #170
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Maybe it's just bad management? Like when Chicago traded Ed Belfour and put all their eggs into the Jeff Hackett basket and spent a decade in the basement...
I'm pretty sure it isn't bad management when this guy has shown himself to be an elite goaltender.

If Schneider wasn't capable of this, he wouldn't be here. He has proven even with Luongo here that he is capable.

I don't see how its bad management when the guy is fully capable.v

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04-14-2013, 10:09 PM
  #171
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Yeah the 1st one.

Since the cap is droppping and Luongo wants to move on.
The difference in cap hit between Schneider and Luongo is just 1.3 mil. And when Cory's contract is up, you can bet he'll be making significantly more.

Luongo wanting to move on is simply to be the number 1 goaltender imo. I highly doubt there's any bad blood between him and the team.

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04-14-2013, 10:20 PM
  #172
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The difference in cap hit between Schneider and Luongo is just 1.3 mil. And when Cory's contract is up, you can bet he'll be making significantly more.

Luongo wanting to move on is simply to be the number 1 goaltender imo. I highly doubt there's any bad blood between him and the team.
Yeah but your not accounting for the "impact player" we potentially will be getting in return.

And by the time Cory wants more (which I assume he will agree to re-sign for less since he is such a great guy and MG gets everyone to do that) the cap will be higher and he will still be underpaid.

We can't afford another contract, and getting the space that comes with trading Lu is an asset in itself. And its important to us who need cap space.

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04-14-2013, 10:33 PM
  #173
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Yeah but your not accounting for the "impact player" we potentially will be getting in return.

And by the time Cory wants more (which I assume he will agree to re-sign for less since he is such a great guy and MG gets everyone to do that) the cap will be higher and he will still be underpaid.

We can't afford another contract, and getting the space that comes with trading Lu is an asset in itself. And its important to us who need cap space.
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And to be honest, I have a strong feeling that Roy will walk in the offseason, moving Henrique and Schroeder up a spot, and that allows us to shore up our depth positions.

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04-14-2013, 11:21 PM
  #174
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And to be honest, I have a strong feeling that Roy will walk in the offseason, moving Henrique and Schroeder up a spot, and that allows us to shore up our depth positions.
Thats assuming Tanev will re-sign at 1.2

And there is no cap space there at all really...

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04-15-2013, 12:55 AM
  #175
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To be honest I only read the first page and saw a lot of Leaf fan responses. I think it'd be borderline delusional to mess with who they've got in net right now, and was honestly puzzled when they tried at both Lu and Kipper at the deadline. Reimer and Scrivens are BOTH good young goalies and doing anything to upset that balance would be a lateral move. They're a playoff team now. Don't change anything unless you're getting better.

Vancouver and Toronto value Schneider JVR and way too much (respectively) for there to be any deal involving the two.

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