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Van-NJ (yes, Luongo)

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Old
04-15-2013, 05:22 AM
  #1
ohnoeszz
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Van-NJ (yes, Luongo)

Luongo and a 1st (or Schroeder)

for

Henrique

I've thought of NJ as a possible goalie destination for a year now. Originally, I was thinking Schneider would be the one to go, but I think he is proving to be an elite goalie who is only starting his career, and it seems Van views him similarly (or they wouldn't have let the Luongo saga play out this far).

This quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
I'd deal Henrique for Schneider, especially if we pick up Lindholm or Monahan in the draft. Henrique is my favourite Devil, but we have Zajac, Loktionov, Zubrus, Elias and Josefson for at least the next year or two, and then whoever we draft will be ready to step in after that. And we do need a goalie, since ours are declining rapidly
made me consider Henrique. Moving him seems to make at least some sense from the Devils side of things. From the Canucks side, he is an ideal young 3C with some versatility to slot in other places.

The Devils are one of the oldest teams in the NHL. They are fairly committed roster-wise to competing for the cup, and they seem like a prime candidate to re-tool over the next few years rather than rebuild.

Broduer/Hedberg are at the very end, leaving NJ in desperate need of a playoff caliber goalie. Luongo still has many good years left in him. IF (a significant if) he finishes out his contract, he is a steal for whoever trades for him as that team receives no cap penalty(if he retires early the team would suffer an anual cap penalty of about 2 million for about 3 years). The Devils are not quite a cap team and that penalty would not seem to affect them (though it would occur ten years from now... things could change).

If Henrique is truly movable as the above post suggests(I admit I wouldn't know myself), I think Luongo would be a great fit, allowing them to continue building from the net out as they have since the start of the Broduer era. The first rounder (or Schroeder) helps them to develop a replacement for the loss of Henrique moving forward.

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04-15-2013, 05:23 AM
  #2
Lawzy
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Oh boy.

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Old
04-15-2013, 05:27 AM
  #3
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Lol though

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Old
04-15-2013, 05:36 AM
  #4
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Should be re-named

Van-NJ (no, Luongo)

IMO

absolutely horrid. You couldn't get scraps from Toronto but you want Henrique from the Devils? what a joke

Even with the 1st..

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04-15-2013, 06:01 AM
  #5
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How about Luongo for Zajac, that way Vancouver has to take a bad contract back in the deal, but one thats not quite as long?

Oh, Vancouver doesnt want to receive a bad contract back? Well now they can understand how the rest of the league feels. Luongo and his contract for NJs Calder candidate young C from last season? LOL

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04-15-2013, 06:17 AM
  #6
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I said I would move Henrique for Schneider, not Luongo. There is a significant difference in their value, and a 1st or Schroeder doesn't make up for that. Also, I'm sure most Devils fans are very opposed to trading Henrique at all

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04-15-2013, 06:18 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKQ View Post
I said I would move Henrique for Schneider, not Luongo. There is a significant difference in their value, and a 1st or Schroeder doesn't make up for that. Also, I'm sure most Devils fans are very opposed to trading Henrique at all
Schneider I'd consider.

Luongo, hell no.

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Old
04-15-2013, 07:01 AM
  #8
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Schneider is worth thinking about for Henrique, Luongo....no thanks.

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04-15-2013, 07:34 AM
  #9
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Luongo has no apparent trade value. It doesn't matter what the circumstance is, nobody wants him. Gillis was begging arch-enemy Toronto to take him for a couple of picks and got laughed at for his efforts. The gist of the humor is that Gillis is the only guy that thinks Luongo is still a starter. Lu doesn't even think that.

Luongo must nullify his contract. Until he does, he is not going to be moved. If he does not move he is handcuffing the Canucks. How handcuffed? Trade the Sedins type scenario. Yet, is this Luongo's problem? If he opts out of his contract he takes an immediate pay cut of about fifty percent and finishes his career as a back-up. Why not just accept the enormous paydays and back -up in Vancouver?

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04-15-2013, 07:56 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Luongo has no apparent trade value. It doesn't matter what the circumstance is, nobody wants him. Gillis was begging arch-enemy Toronto to take him for a couple of picks and got laughed at for his efforts. The gist of the humor is that Gillis is the only guy that thinks Luongo is still a starter. Lu doesn't even think that.

Luongo must nullify his contract. Until he does, he is not going to be moved. If he does not move he is handcuffing the Canucks. How handcuffed? Trade the Sedins type scenario. Yet, is this Luongo's problem? If he opts out of his contract he takes an immediate pay cut of about fifty percent and finishes his career as a back-up. Why not just accept the enormous paydays and back -up in Vancouver?
The Toronto saga is more media portrayal than anything else. There are in fact other teams in the league. That stuff has captured the imagination of HFboards and hockey fans all over. I wouldn't put too much stock in any particular report about what Gillis was asking, offering, being offered or whatever else. Reporters find that stuff out through sources that often are aiming to manipulate the media to their own ends.

There is no trade the Sedins scenario, and people have already shown through capgeek how it is possible to carry Luongo into next season while icing virtually the same team. That isn't ideal, but a 5.3 cap hit can be managed around.... hell half the teams in the league could eliminate 5.3 off their cap and not even notice.

=============


I still think Luongo is a great fit in NJ. I don't expect their fans to jump at trading Henrique for him given the current atmosphere and fan attitudes for Luongo, but I still think its a pretty good trade.

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04-15-2013, 08:17 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
The Toronto saga is more media portrayal than anything else. There are in fact other teams in the league. That stuff has captured the imagination of HFboards and hockey fans all over. I wouldn't put too much stock in any particular report about what Gillis was asking, offering, being offered or whatever else. Reporters find that stuff out through sources that often are aiming to manipulate the media to their own ends.
If there were a number of teams with legitimate interest, if there was any legitimate trade market for Luongo, he would have been moved by now. Period.

Gillis has been trying to move him for almost an entire year at this point. Regardless of whether or not you buy the specifics of Nonis turning down ~Scrivens + two 2nds or whatever it was, it doesn't change the fact that Gillis has NOT been able to move Luongo for almost a full year.

Other things to consider. Luongo this summer is a year older than he was last summer, so his trade value should actually drop. TB is no longer an option (Bishop+Lindback), and then guys like Bernier, Miller, etc may be finding new homes, and I don't see either Buffalo or LA being interested in Luongo. This should also lower Luongo's trade value as the market looks even worse than it did last summer.

Any way you spin it, like I said above, the evidence indicates that Luongo must have either neutral, or potentially even negative value. In other words, if you want to present a legitimate Luongo trade proposal, make it Luongo + prospect/pick for a journeyman NHLer, something like that.

Your proposal of Luongo for a Calder candidate from last season is a terrible proposal.

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04-15-2013, 09:04 AM
  #12
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I think Luongo would work in Jersey, but i think Henrique is a nogo.

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Old
04-15-2013, 09:41 AM
  #13
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who said Brodeur will retire?

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Old
04-15-2013, 09:46 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
If there were a number of teams with legitimate interest, if there was any legitimate trade market for Luongo, he would have been moved by now. Period.

Gillis has been trying to move him for almost an entire year at this point. Regardless of whether or not you buy the specifics of Nonis turning down ~Scrivens + two 2nds or whatever it was, it doesn't change the fact that Gillis has NOT been able to move Luongo for almost a full year.

Other things to consider. Luongo this summer is a year older than he was last summer, so his trade value should actually drop. TB is no longer an option (Bishop+Lindback), and then guys like Bernier, Miller, etc may be finding new homes, and I don't see either Buffalo or LA being interested in Luongo. This should also lower Luongo's trade value as the market looks even worse than it did last summer.

Any way you spin it, like I said above, the evidence indicates that Luongo must have either neutral, or potentially even negative value. In other words, if you want to present a legitimate Luongo trade proposal, make it Luongo + prospect/pick for a journeyman NHLer, something like that.

Your proposal of Luongo for a Calder candidate from last season is a terrible proposal.
Gillis has been trying to move him... but at what price? I would bet an exorbitant one which he didn't want to back down from.

Before the lockout there was buzz that Luongo's and other similar contracts would be penalized under the new CBA. That pushed back any possible deals. There was no movement during the lockout, which was followed abruptly by an abbreviated training camp, and shortened season. Teams never really had a chance to line their ducks up in a row the same way they would have in a normal off-season.

Teams now know the cap penalties involved in such a trade (likely about 2 million annually over 3 seasons, 8-10 years from now). That is a drawback but it can be planned for and it isn't particularly significant except to the handful of teams which spend to the cap. Looking at capgeek, that penalty would only effect the top 6 or 7 spenders in the league this season. By 2022, assuming a typical rising cap, that penalty is an even smaller percentage of the cap. Vancouver, as a cap team for the foreseeable future, will be penalized no matter what, but there are many teams in the league for which that penalty is immaterial.

As for the length, there are 5 more years before his salary drops off and he becomes a potential buyout with 7 million left on his contract over 4 years. 6 years until he has 3.6 million left on the contract over the last three years and a buyout would be cheap if the team didn't want to keep him around as a backup or trade him to a team needing to reach the cap floor.

His contract is not damning - it is perfectly manageable for the right team. It is more-so a matter of finding the right team.

This off-season there will be different teams in need of goalies. Phoenix? NJ? Detroit? Buffalo? Calgary? Anaheim? The deck will be reshuffled come the off-season.

He may end up being moved for a pittance if no one steps forward this off-season, but IMO a team without the long-term cap concerns recognizes the value he provides and makes a move.

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04-15-2013, 09:47 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Luongo has no apparent trade value. It doesn't matter what the circumstance is, nobody wants him. Gillis was begging arch-enemy Toronto to take him for a couple of picks and got laughed at for his efforts. The gist of the humor is that Gillis is the only guy that thinks Luongo is still a starter. Lu doesn't even think that.

Luongo must nullify his contract. Until he does, he is not going to be moved. If he does not move he is handcuffing the Canucks. How handcuffed? Trade the Sedins type scenario. Yet, is this Luongo's problem? If he opts out of his contract he takes an immediate pay cut of about fifty percent and finishes his career as a back-up. Why not just accept the enormous paydays and back -up in Vancouver?
I've been saying this forever. Just buy him out at seasons end.

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Old
04-15-2013, 09:55 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz;63971145[B
]The Toronto saga is more media portrayal than anything else. [/B] There are in fact other teams in the league. That stuff has captured the imagination of HFboards and hockey fans all over. I wouldn't put too much stock in any particular report about what Gillis was asking, offering, being offered or whatever else. Reporters find that stuff out through sources that often are aiming to manipulate the media to their own ends.There is no trade the Sedins scenario, and people have already shown through capgeek how it is possible to carry Luongo into next season while icing virtually the same team. That isn't ideal, but a 5.3 cap hit can be managed around.... hell half the teams in the league could eliminate 5.3 off their cap and not even notice.

=============


I still think Luongo is a great fit in NJ. I don't expect their fans to jump at trading Henrique for him given the current atmosphere and fan attitudes for Luongo, but I still think its a pretty good trade.
Seems we have another delusional hockey fan. The reality is Lou carries one of the worst contracts the NHL has ever seen, and due to this, carries no value. Several Vancouver fans have bragged about how great his contract is, and what a wonderful player he is, then why not keep him and end the threads. Vancouver would be lucky just to get out of that contract, let alone expect anything in return. If Schenider is not traded, a Lou buyout is sure to come.

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04-15-2013, 10:01 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
Gillis has been trying to move him... but at what price? I would bet an exorbitant one which he didn't want to back down from.

Before the lockout there was buzz that Luongo's and other similar contracts would be penalized under the new CBA. That pushed back any possible deals. There was no movement during the lockout, which was followed abruptly by an abbreviated training camp, and shortened season. Teams never really had a chance to line their ducks up in a row the same way they would have in a normal off-season.

Teams now know the cap penalties involved in such a trade (likely about 2 million annually over 3 seasons, 8-10 years from now). That is a drawback but it can be planned for and it isn't particularly significant except to the handful of teams which spend to the cap. Looking at capgeek, that penalty would only effect the top 6 or 7 spenders in the league this season. By 2022, assuming a typical rising cap, that penalty is an even smaller percentage of the cap. Vancouver, as a cap team for the foreseeable future, will be penalized no matter what, but there are many teams in the league for which that penalty is immaterial.As for the length, there are 5 more years before his salary drops off and he becomes a potential buyout with 7 million left on his contract over 4 years. 6 years until he has 3.6 million left on the contract over the last three years and a buyout would be cheap if the team didn't want to keep him around as a backup or trade him to a team needing to reach the cap floor.

His contract is not damning - it is perfectly manageable for the right team. It is more-so a matter of finding the right team.

This off-season there will be different teams in need of goalies. Phoenix? NJ? Detroit? Buffalo? Calgary? Anaheim? The deck will be reshuffled come the off-season.

He may end up being moved for a pittance if no one steps forward this off-season, but IMO a team without the long-term cap concerns recognizes the value he provides and makes a move.


Again, the word delusional fits the bill here. You can slice it any way you want it, 9 more years of Lou until he is 43 is ridiculous. Then you try to justify having dead cap space as a good thing? Vancouver should reap the rewards of this contract and the way Gillis has dealt with this situation. I'm not sure who you are trying to convice that Lou is moveable and has value, but good luck with that.

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04-15-2013, 10:11 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
I wouldn't put too much stock in any particular report about what Gillis was asking, offering, being offered or whatever else. Reporters find that stuff out through sources that often are aiming to manipulate the media to their own ends.
I have an idea : Gillis, instead of being a victim of the media manipulation, should manipulate himself the media for his own end, he should secretly plant the idea that he refused greats offers for Luongo.

This way Luongo value could go up and he could find a good deal.


Last edited by palindrom: 04-15-2013 at 10:17 AM.
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04-15-2013, 10:19 AM
  #19
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Luongo is worth a mid round pick. Luongo and Kovy retiring before their deals are up would destroy the Devils though. For that reason, I think they have to pass.

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04-15-2013, 10:23 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
Gillis has been trying to move him... but at what price? I would bet an exorbitant one which he didn't want to back down from.

Before the lockout there was buzz that Luongo's and other similar contracts would be penalized under the new CBA. That pushed back any possible deals. There was no movement during the lockout, which was followed abruptly by an abbreviated training camp, and shortened season. Teams never really had a chance to line their ducks up in a row the same way they would have in a normal off-season.
Yawn... Nash, Gaborik, Pominville, Erat, Bishop, Lindback, Morrow, Iginla, Brassard, Clowe, Bouwmeester, Roy, Regher, Leopold, Murray, Ryder, Lombardi, Bobrovsky, Ribeiro, Visnovsky, Michalek, Ott, J. Staal, B. Sutter, Foligno, Methot, Dubinsky, JVR, L. Schenn, etc all say hello.

All I'm hearing from you is a bunch of delusional excuses as to why Luongo hasn't been traded. Yea, it has nothing to do with his trade value. It all has to do with the CBA, the shortened season, and the lockout. Dozens of players have been traded in that time frame, including a number of very significant players, most of whom were not pending UFAs when traded.

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04-15-2013, 10:40 AM
  #21
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hahahahahahahahahahaha.

no. I wouldn't touch Luongo with a 50 foot pole unless you kept 90% of his salary. And even then I probably wouldn't touch him.

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04-15-2013, 10:43 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I have an idea : Gillis, instead of being a victim of the media manipulation, should manipulate himself the media for his own end, he should secretly plant the idea that he refused greats offers for Luongo.

This way Luongo value could go up and he could find a good deal.
he did.
he said he was talking to 4 teams.
but everyone would rather drink up the TO media swill than believe that.

i know it's outrageous to think that becasue he couldnt get his high price Gillis decided that it's better to go with 2 all star goalies for insurance down the stretch and into the POs...

much more fun to belive what cousin Dregs was spinning at the deadline...or shortly thereafter when he completely changed his story.

gillis will move Luo in the offseason for something decent... fear not.

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04-15-2013, 11:20 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Seems we have another delusional hockey fan. The reality is Lou carries one of the worst contracts the NHL has ever seen, and due to this, carries no value. Several Vancouver fans have bragged about how great his contract is, and what a wonderful player he is, then why not keep him and end the threads. Vancouver would be lucky just to get out of that contract, let alone expect anything in return. If Schenider is not traded, a Lou buyout is sure to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
[/B]

Again, the word delusional fits the bill here. You can slice it any way you want it, 9 more years of Lou until he is 43 is ridiculous. Then you try to justify having dead cap space as a good thing? Vancouver should reap the rewards of this contract and the way Gillis has dealt with this situation. I'm not sure who you are trying to convice that Lou is moveable and has value, but good luck with that.
Where did I say dead cap space is good? Nowhere.

I said to the right team, his contract is more manageable than is generally perceived. Then I provided numbers to back it up. All you can say is "9 more years until Lou is 43...." when even in the post you quoted I talked about how it would likely only last until he is 40 because at that point a buyout is perfectly feasible to even the cheapest of teams (though far more likely is to trade him to a team in need of the cap hit, like Tim Thomas getting sent to the Isles, thereby saving the buyout money).

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04-15-2013, 11:21 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Luongo is worth a mid round pick. Luongo and Kovy retiring before their deals are up would destroy the Devils though. For that reason, I think they have to pass.
I'll admit I had forgotten about the Kovy retirement contract. That complicates things...

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04-15-2013, 11:28 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by ohnoeszz View Post
I'll admit I had forgotten about the Kovy retirement contract. That complicates things...
I will also admit i didn't consider this. Makes possible sense why Tampa didn't make a move for Luongo. (Vinny's contract)

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