HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Tor Offseason Moves

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-17-2013, 08:31 AM
  #1
Mellor683
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 43
vCash: 500
Tor Offseason Moves

Tor-
Gardiner
Grabovski
Frattin or Kulemin
1st

EDM-
Eberle,
Horcoff

Sign Paul Ranger (NHL deal), David Clarkson, re-sign Bozak

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Kadri Eberle
Kulemin Horcoff Clarkson
Komarov McClement Orr

Hamilton, McClaren

Gunnarson Phanuef
Liles Ranger
Fraser Franson

Thoughts??

Mellor683 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #2
veedubn1
Registered User
 
veedubn1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,635
vCash: 500
Horcoff is useless. Do not want. McClement would be our 3rd stringer and it's ideal if your 4th line C is a face off specialist (at a minimum).

Some goof will give Clarkson 4+ mill.. which he isn't worth (ask Devils fans), let's hope it isn't us.

I like Eberle but if our centers are Bozak and Kadri, we need a bruiser at that spot. You can't win playoff rounds when 2/3 of your top six (Kessel, Kadri, Bozak, Eberle) are smurfs.

veedubn1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 08:39 AM
  #3
kingdok
HFBoards Sponsor
 
kingdok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5,245
vCash: 500
I think if Edmonton would be trading Eberle, it would be for a good defenseman with experience + forward depth if possible. Your offer isn't bad, but I'm thinking EDM would be much better off signing Clarkson and Bozak themselves then doing this trade.

kingdok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 08:50 AM
  #4
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mellor683 View Post
Tor-
Gardiner
Grabovski
Frattin or Kulemin
1st

EDM-
Eberle,
Horcoff

Thoughts??
Terrible.

Horcoff is a terrible capdump, and while Eberle is good, he's a small skilled defensively liable winger. We are DEEP on the wings, we DON'T need to add there.

Why would we trade Gardiner, one of our most valuable trade pieces, a 1st, another of our most valuable trade pieces, Grabo and a solid winger in a package for a winger and a capdump?

Trading is where you target team needs. If we're trading Gardiner and/or our 1st, I would hope it would be in a deal for a two-way top 6 centre or for a top pairing RH defenceman.

416Leafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 10:43 AM
  #5
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,121
vCash: 50
I certainly have no problem trading Gardiner, but you are giving up a guy you hope is having a bad year for a guy who's had a few already, and a young winger, who is very good defensively, plus a first for Eberle, who while a nice piece, is redundant for us. It's overpayment and wreaks of making a trade for the sake of making a trade. I'm assuming they take Kulemin all day every day over Frattin. Sooner try and package Gardiner with our first and move into Monahan range

Teeder9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 11:23 AM
  #6
Djp
Registered User
 
Djp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Seattle,WA
Posts: 7,861
vCash: 500
Why not restart this with

TO TOR: Eberlee+???

TO TOR: Grabo+Gardiner+???

Djp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 11:33 AM
  #7
416Leafer
Registered User
 
416Leafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,383
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Why not restart this with

TO TOR: Eberlee+???

TO TOR: Grabo+Gardiner+???
Why not restart with us trading that package for a centre or defenceman, not another winger.

Kessel + Lupul give us two high end wingers. JVR + Kulemin + MacArthur + Frattin give us four more guys to fill in the top 9. No need to trade premium assets for a winger.

416Leafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 11:40 AM
  #8
Saul Alinsky
Community Organizer
 
Saul Alinsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: United Nations
Posts: 5,346
vCash: 500
Like Eberle, but we don't need anymore small or soft wingers. Plus, I'd rather have those assets coming from the Leaf side.

RNH is the only guy that fits Toronto's needs, and I don't see him being moved any time soon. Swap Eberle with him, drop Horcoff, and Toronto might listen.

Saul Alinsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 11:43 AM
  #9
pooleboy
#chychrun2016
 
pooleboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 6,386
vCash: 500
so we have a abudance of wingers so we trade for another one while giving up our best defensive prospect (other than Rielly?) pass.

gardiner for couterier or something along those lines please. (if he is going to be traded, its fine to keep our own players too you know)

pooleboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:08 PM
  #10
Kezia
egg
 
Kezia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,862
vCash: 50
That package doesn't get you Eberle.

Kezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:12 PM
  #11
Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
 
Vankiller Whale's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,249
vCash: 1815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
That package doesn't get you Eberle.
Eberle has disappointed this season. If Edmonton is looking for a shakeup...they should consider this long and hard.

Vankiller Whale is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:20 PM
  #12
Kezia
egg
 
Kezia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,862
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Eberle has disappointed this season. If Edmonton is looking for a shakeup...they should consider this long and hard.
How does selling super low on Eberle help them in anyway?

Kezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #13
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
That package doesn't get you Eberle.
That's hilarious. I bet your former GM shared the same opinion.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:24 PM
  #14
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,121
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
How does selling super low on Eberle help them in anyway?
How is trading for a 50 point decent defensively 2nd line center, a young offensive dman, a very good 3rd line winger/good second line winger, and a 1st selling low?

Teeder9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:29 PM
  #15
Number1RedWingsFan52
Registered User
 
Number1RedWingsFan52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Winter Haven Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 9,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djp View Post
Why not restart this with

TO TOR: Eberlee+???

TO TOR: Grabo+Gardiner+???
Dont you mean to EDM Grabo+Gardiner+??? Grabo and Gardiner already play for Toronto.

Number1RedWingsFan52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:31 PM
  #16
Kezia
egg
 
Kezia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kingston
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,862
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
How is trading for a 50 point decent defensively 2nd line center, a young offensive dman, a very good 3rd line winger/good second line winger, and a 1st selling low?
Edmonton doesn't need a 2nd line center with bad a contract.

Edmonton doesn't need a 3rd line winger.

Its a low first.

Although Gardiner is a nice piece, they would want a top pairing or at least a player thats currently better with more potential.

Kezia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:31 PM
  #17
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
How is trading for a 50 point decent defensively 2nd line center, a young offensive dman, a very good 3rd line winger/good second line winger, and a 1st selling low?
I'm not sure that poster was even serious. Any sane hockey fan will tell you that

Grabo, Gardiner, Kule/Frat + one of the 15 to 25th overall picks in the draft is at least one asset more than what Eberle is worth.

And then the Horcoff icing on the trade cake. Nice.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #18
Akonite
Registered User
 
Akonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,879
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
I'm not sure that poster was even serious. Any sane hockey fan will tell you that

Grabo, Gardiner, Kule/Frat + one of the 15 to 25th overall picks in the draft is at least one asset more than what Eberle is worth.

And then the Horcoff icing on the trade cake. Nice.
Eberle wouldn't be traded for quantity packages, we have specific needs and this package doesn't really address them.

We dont mind keeping Horcoff. His contract is over soon enough and his faceoff skills and leadership are huge needs for us.

Akonite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:39 PM
  #19
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Edmonton doesn't need a 2nd line center with bad a contract.

Edmonton doesn't need 3rd line wingers.

Its a low first.

Although Gardiner is a nice piece, they would want a top pairing or at least a player thats currently better with more potential.
Kulemin, Grabo and Frattin are all 2nd line options. Frattin still has upside, as does Kulemin. Want to know why our PK is top-5 in the league and our 5/5 F/a is top-10? Kulemin, Grabo and McClement are great places to start.

Hemsky, Smith, Yaks, Hartikainen and MPS are a combined -34 this season. Safe to say it's not a stretch to think that upgrading those players with guys that can actually log top-9 minutes in defensive roles would be an improvement for the club.



I'll fully admit this is simply a limited observation, but it seems Edmonton fans are always so dismissive of other teams' talent, unwilling to trade any of theirs away.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:44 PM
  #20
caley
Moderator
 
caley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 9,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
How is trading for a 50 point decent defensively 2nd line center, a young offensive dman, a very good 3rd line winger/good second line winger, and a 1st selling low?
Grabovski isn't a 50 point 2nd line center after this season. Right now he's all up and down that lineup and not coming near 50 points. Add in his awful contract and that's a big no.

Gardiner hasn't looked very good this year. Occasional healthy scratch and gets lost in his own end. For what he brings to the table right now, Justin Schultz can provide it all in spades.

Frattin, after a hot start, has been an occasional healthy scratch and can't score to save his life.

If Edmonton moves Eberle, it's for a Top 2 defenceman, not potential Top 4 defencemen/reclamation centers/etc.

I understand Eberle hasn't had a great season with only 28 points in 42 games, but that still puts him 3rd on the Oilers (And would be 4th on the Leafs) and it's been rumored he's done all this playing through a broken finger. He's still only 22 (same age as Gardiner) and considerably younger than Frattin and Grabovski.

Put it this way, if the Oilers and Leafs swapped positions in the standings, and the Oilers offered the Leafs Shawn Horcoff (5 years older, but a better points-per-game than Grabovski, with a higher career high and equally bad cap hit than runs out sooner), Jeff Petry (Older than Gardiner but better point total this year and better in his own end this year), Magnus Paajarvi (Younger than Frattin, his potential offsets the comedown from Gardiner to Petry) and their 1st for Nazem Kadri, would you do it? Of course you wouldn't! The Leafs would only move Kadri for something that markedly improves their team or offers them something they don't already have (High-end #1 center, Top 2 defenceman, Top line power forward). It's the same thing with Edmonton, they only move Eberle for something that markedly improves them or presents something they don't already have (Top 2 defenceman, top line power forward, franchise goalie etc.).

__________________
Dan O'Toole: "So if I have this right, only acceptable goal celebration in NHL is to put hands at your sides and then feel shame."
caley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:46 PM
  #21
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akonite View Post
Eberle wouldn't be traded for quantity packages, we have specific needs and this package doesn't really address them.

We dont mind keeping Horcoff. His contract is over soon enough and his faceoff skills and leadership are huge needs for us.
I get what you're saying; but what I got from the comment 'that package won't get you Eberle' was that it wasn't enough, when IMO it clearly is.

If Toronto was stupid enough to offer that package Edmonton would walk away with a top-4 D in Gardiner, a solid top-9 with upside and a top-6 centre who can play shut-down hockey. And a top-20 pick in a deep draft. Hardly something to say Edmonton doesn't 'need' right now.

With the inclusion of either Kulemin or Frattin Edmonton has more assets they can move for defensive help. Repackaging one or more of MPS, Frattin/Kule, Hartikainen, Lander and/or Hemsky would get you a quality top-4 D in return, especially with the addition of either Toronto's 1st, or Edmonton's 2nd now more available with the addition of Toronto's 1st.

If I'm an Edmonton GM I really see this being very good for the club, provided they've decided to move away from Eberle.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #22
Teeder9
Free rent for Mo?
 
Teeder9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,121
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplatepressure View Post
Kulemin, Grabo and Frattin are all 2nd line options. Frattin still has upside, as does Kulemin. Want to know why our PK is top-5 in the league and our 5/5 F/a is top-10? Kulemin, Grabo and McClement are great places to start.

Hemsky, Smith, Yaks, Hartikainen and MPS are a combined -34 this season. Safe to say it's not a stretch to think that upgrading those players with guys that can actually log top-9 minutes in defensive roles would be an improvement for the club.



I'll fully admit this is simply a limited observation, but it seems Edmonton fans are always so dismissive of other teams' talent, unwilling to trade any of theirs away.
Most team's fans are the same, ours included. Love Eberle, although mostly for the WJC, but I see him as a complimentary piece to Hall, and that's fine. Every team has them and every team needs them. I look at this from my teams perspective which I assume most others do. I don't care about losing Grabo or Gardiner. I like what both can bring but both are replaceable from within. Kulemin is the only hard piece to give up imo. The 1st is tough because of the past, but it shouldn't be a good hockey trade hold up for any team looking to improve now, short of top 5. With all that said, Eberle doesn't make up losing all 3 and the first, ergo not worth it. There's value to players, and some have lots, and some for different reasons, but no team should give up 2 full time players and 2 future prospects, one having already shown what he can do for a player who doesn't improve your top line, and Eberle doesn't.

Teeder9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:53 PM
  #23
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by caley View Post
Grabovski isn't a 50 point 2nd line center after this season. Right now he's all up and down that lineup and not coming near 50 points. Add in his awful contract and that's a big no.

Gardiner hasn't looked very good this year. Occasional healthy scratch and gets lost in his own end. For what he brings to the table right now, Justin Schultz can provide it all in spades.

Frattin, after a hot start, has been an occasional healthy scratch and can't score to save his life.

If Edmonton moves Eberle, it's for a Top 2 defenceman, not potential Top 4 defencemen/reclamation centers/etc.

I understand Eberle hasn't had a great season with only 28 points in 42 games, but that still puts him 3rd on the Oilers (And would be 4th on the Leafs) and it's been rumored he's done all this playing through a broken finger. He's still only 22 (same age as Gardiner) and considerably younger than Frattin and Grabovski.

Put it this way, if the Oilers and Leafs swapped positions in the standings, and the Oilers offered the Leafs Shawn Horcoff (5 years older, but a better points-per-game than Grabovski, with a higher career high and equally bad cap hit than runs out sooner), Jeff Petry (Older than Gardiner but better point total this year and better in his own end this year), Magnus Paajarvi (Younger than Frattin, his potential offsets the comedown from Gardiner to Petry) and their 1st for Nazem Kadri, would you do it? Of course you wouldn't! The Leafs would only move Kadri for something that markedly improves their team or offers them something they don't already have (High-end #1 center, Top 2 defenceman, Top line power forward). It's the same thing with Edmonton, they only move Eberle for something that markedly improves them or presents something they don't already have (Top 2 defenceman, top line power forward, franchise goalie etc.).
So Gardiner and Frattin are bubble players on account of this season only, but Eberle's pedestrian season still returns a top-2 defenseman?

Horcoff is 5 years older than Grabo, so you've lost me at the first sentence, and frankly I find your reliance on the 'this year only' factor to inhibit your logic in the arguments. Gardiner's a better prospect than Petry and Kulemin's far better than MPS.

If we signed Kadri to a huge contract and the following season his numbers dropped significantly, and we had the organizational depth to replace him, you can probably bet we'd jump on a Horcoff when he was 29, Kulemin, Gardiner and a 1st for Kadri deal.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:55 PM
  #24
dubplatepressure
Registered User
 
dubplatepressure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,971
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
Most team's fans are the same, ours included. Love Eberle, although mostly for the WJC, but I see him as a complimentary piece to Hall, and that's fine. Every team has them and every team needs them. I look at this from my teams perspective which I assume most others do. I don't care about losing Grabo or Gardiner. I like what both can bring but both are replaceable from within. Kulemin is the only hard piece to give up imo. The 1st is tough because of the past, but it shouldn't be a good hockey trade hold up for any team looking to improve now, short of top 5. With all that said, Eberle doesn't make up losing all 3 and the first, ergo not worth it. There's value to players, and some have lots, and some for different reasons, but no team should give up 2 full time players and 2 future prospects, one having already shown what he can do for a player who doesn't improve your top line, and Eberle doesn't.
Hey I'm with you - I think from our perspective I'd be extremely disappointing if we pulled the trigger on this. Hense why I think at least one Edmonton fan is silly to think Edmonton wouldn't jump on this.

dubplatepressure is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-17-2013, 12:56 PM
  #25
blankall
Registered User
 
blankall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,714
vCash: 500
Toronto fans needs to settle down with the Grabovski stuff. It doesn't matter what he brings besides stats, a player playing at a .37 PPG pace with a 5.5 mil cap hit for 4 more years is going to have negative value.

Frattin is 25 and yet to secure himself as a full time NHLer.

Kulemin had 1 good year and is set to make 3 mil next year.

Toronto is going to find playes like these have zero to negative value. Look at how players like Hagman and J. Jokinen have been valued in the past. No one cares what second line players did 2-3 years ago.

blankall is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.