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Paul Kariya

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Old
04-15-2013, 01:37 AM
  #1
Starkiller
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Paul Kariya

Paul Kariya in the 90s was one of the most ELECTRIFYING Players in the NHL and arguably the best LW. Tho not the biggest guy, he was one of the fastest and smartest. with LIGHTING SPEED, a ROCKET SHOT, and Great Vision, Kariya was one of the funnest and most exciting players to watch.

Tho his downfall was concussions and injuries, started with that cheap shot Suter hit immediately after Kariya Scored that goal, one of the most sickening things to watch. Suter Robbed Canada of Having Kariya in his prime team up with Gretzky in Nagano 98, which Canada lost. When you are good, and small you get targeted. Kariya never had the protection Gretzky had, like i dont remember kariya having a Big Mcsorley type player on his line for protection. Even the Scott Stevens hit was dirty in the cup finals. if you watch the replay, total interference, blindside hit, that if that happened today Stevens would of been fined and suspended no question.


Understandably, Ducks Fans still dont want Kariya's jersey Retired because of his departure and how it went down, but their golden boy, Teemu Selanne was instrumental and in luring kariya to take the big pay cut and sign with the avs, tho teemu selanne tanked in colorado and was often a healthy scratch, while kariya unfortunately missed games due to injury that year. But getting back to the ducks, how the hell does Bobby Ryan even wear #9 after Kariya? like, i can understand if he was lighting up the stats, but come on!


Lastly, Kariya HOF? even with all the concussions and injuries, kariya still averaged a pt a game, finishing just 10pts shy of 1000. 7 time all star(3 first team, 2 2nd team) Olympic Gold Medal, Junior gold medal. in his prime in the 90s wasnt surrounded by the best players but still put up pts.



what are everyones thoughts on Kariya? Im currently 29, so i remember him coming into the nhl and putting on a show in the 90s.

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04-15-2013, 02:01 AM
  #2
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He was the face of the franchise and unbelievable to watch, but his number will not be retired before at least 2 other people, both of which are still playing.

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04-15-2013, 02:10 AM
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We've been down this road many times...if they were going to retire his #....they wouldn't have given Bobby Ryan #9. He isn't getting his number retired at all and even if he did it wouldn't be until Selanne, Giguere, and maybe even Scott Niedermayer all had their numbers retired. Hell, Getzlaf and Perry are 20 times more likely to get their numbers retired then Kariya. Great player, left on bad terms.

Edit: And this is coming from me, who was pissed as hell when the Ducks gave Bobby Ryan #9. I still am a tad bit salty about that. I think it should be one of those unwritten rules where no one asks for #9 because they know out of respect what Paul did for the franchise. Whatever though, that decision is long gone

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04-15-2013, 02:26 AM
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Yeah, I'm not a ducks fan, and I can understand why duck fans feel betrayed, I mean I guess it's like asking Cleveland how come you hate lebron? Lol I don't think kariya left that badly tho... but he did have concussions and wasn't the same type player in managements eyes which led to the whole business side f things I guess.


But kariya in the 90s was a sick player, an elite player imagine if he had an elite team! I'm a leafs fan, I don't watch much ducks games obviously, but I think perry is pretty good player to have.

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04-15-2013, 02:27 AM
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His number should be in the rafters in the near future. He was our superstar.

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04-15-2013, 02:55 AM
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Actually Mathieu Schneider started the concussion train with a forearm shiver during a detroit game quite awhile before that ******* suter did his dirty work.
Teemu stated Paul was sitting next to him on the bench giggling to himself, totally out of it.

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04-15-2013, 03:02 AM
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We've gone over this time and time again. Some people, like myself, would give him a standing ovation if he ever stepped onto the ice at the pond for any kind of ceremony. But a lot of people wouldn't, and would outright boo, hiss, and do all sorts of other things. It would tear the fanbase apart if we ever had to deal with it outside of hypotheticals.

One thing we all agree on is that Bobby wears #9 right now, and it wouldn't be fair to him to take that away.

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04-15-2013, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Papaspud View Post
Actually Mathieu Schneider started the concussion train with a forearm shiver during a detroit game quite awhile before that ******* suter did his dirty work.
Teemu stated Paul was sitting next to him on the bench giggling to himself, totally out of it.

wow, good memory. your right. what a scary thing to happen. I remember as a kid hockey analysts would say kariya should stick to international play with the bigger ice more space, due to his size and skill level. nhl was brutal violent in the 90s.

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04-15-2013, 04:55 AM
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Hands down, the most talented player ever played in a Ducks jersey! Electrifying! Until this hit from Suter he was just great. Despite his depature I still love how he played the game back then. I also think that, if his concussions did not happen, he would have been the best of his generation.

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04-15-2013, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by TheMightyDucks View Post
His number should be in the rafters in the near future. He was our superstar.
I sure hope so.

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04-15-2013, 05:31 AM
  #11
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As for #9 being retired - Ryan wouldn't have been given it if they were going to retire it. I would hope we maintain a high standard for our number retirements and as good as Kariya was he never led us anywhere and disappeared completely during our first cup run. As far as the HHOF goes he's a borderline guy - he may or may not make it but he certainly won't be first ballot.

I know many have forgiven him but his lack of loyalty and the fact he flat out lied to the Ducks fan base make me never want to see his number retired. He and Teemu were by my favorite players in the mid to late 90s but him backstabbing the franchise and fan base changed my opinion of him pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
Hands down, the most talented player ever played in a Ducks jersey! Electrifying! Until this hit from Suter he was just great. Despite his depature I still love how he played the game back then. I also think that, if his concussions did not happen, he would have been the best of his generation.
Selanne, Niedermayer and Pronger were all more talented than Kariya. One could argue that Fedorov was more talented than Kariya as well but he didn't really put his talent to good use while he was here and he was only here a short time.

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04-15-2013, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Selanne, Niedermayer and Pronger were all more talented than Kariya. One could argue that Fedorov was more talented than Kariya as well but he didn't really put his talent to good use while he was here and he was only here a short time.
I don't see it this way excepting Nieds. Before the hit by Suter Kariya was a league on his own. Pronger was the complete package but Paul was just amazing. After it he was a different player and never came close again.

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04-15-2013, 06:16 AM
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Oh look, another kid from the center of the hockey universe is here to tell us how to feel about Paul Kariya. Given how very often the Ducks were on national television in the 90s, you must have seen him play 20 times! Maybe even 21! That's a lot. That's how many games I don't simulate in an NHL2k season, so that's like a ton.

While you're basking in the success of your lecture, here's a couple things to consider: 1) golden boy Selanne "lured" Kariya after having himself being traded, did not owe any loyalty to Ducks management as to himself or with respect to Kariya, and did not have a verbal agreement with Ducks management. Kariya did. Nor was Selanne "often a healthy scratch" that year in Colorado.

2) Paul Kariya does not belong in the Hall of Fame. His best argument are his top 10 scoring finishes and first and second team all star selections, but in context of his career as a whole, he's not even borderline. It's not the Hall of Electrifying Dudes That I Fondly Remember. It's not even the Hall of Fame if They'd Only Played a Full Healthy Career (except for Neely, apparently). So, no.

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04-15-2013, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
I don't see it this way excepting Nieds. Before the hit by Suter Kariya was a league on his own. Pronger was the complete package but Paul was just amazing. After it he was a different player and never came close again.
Kariya was never in a league of his own. Post Lemieux Jagr was the only guy I would consider in a league of his own - he was on another level to everyone else.

And Teemu was always the better and more talented player when they were in Anaheim together. Kariya was more explosive and fun to watch but Teemu was better.

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04-15-2013, 09:37 AM
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You can't have a guy leave a franchise like the way he did and turn around and retire his number, especially with no championships.

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04-15-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
Oh look, another kid from the center of the hockey universe is here to tell us how to feel about Paul Kariya. Given how very often the Ducks were on national television in the 90s, you must have seen him play 20 times! Maybe even 21! That's a lot. That's how many games I don't simulate in an NHL2k season, so that's like a ton.

While you're basking in the success of your lecture, here's a couple things to consider: 1) golden boy Selanne "lured" Kariya after having himself being traded, did not owe any loyalty to Ducks management as to himself or with respect to Kariya, and did not have a verbal agreement with Ducks management. Kariya did. Nor was Selanne "often a healthy scratch" that year in Colorado.

2) Paul Kariya does not belong in the Hall of Fame. His best argument are his top 10 scoring finishes and first and second team all star selections, but in context of his career as a whole, he's not even borderline. It's not the Hall of Electrifying Dudes That I Fondly Remember. It's not even the Hall of Fame if They'd Only Played a Full Healthy Career (except for Neely, apparently). So, no.
selanne was a healthy scratch in colorado. I remember the controversy. I think if selanne was better the ducks wouldn't have traded him?

the years they both played for the ducks here are their numbers

Here are their stats:

Kariya
Regular Season:
395GP 225G 267A 492P +87 133PIM
Playoffs:
14GP 8G 9A 17P -2 4PIM

Selanne
Regular Season:
394GP 225G 257A 482P +58 146PIM
Playoffs:
15GP 9G 5A 14P -6 6PIM

kariya in his prime probably was the most talented player the ducks ever seen. your right I didn't get to see a lot of games, but got to see all the highlights, all his canada games, so I was able to see the skill level. kariya cup run, the new coach had a contender team but was committed to defense and trap systems. plus back then the goalie equipment was gigantic. gigure covered the whole net just standing tgethere you couldn't score. how come when the league regulated the goalie equipment he wasn't that good anymore?

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04-15-2013, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller View Post
selanne was a healthy scratch in colorado. I remember the controversy.
Selanne missed 4 games that year, 2 of them due to injury. 2 games is no one's definition of "very often".

Quote:
I think if selanne was better the ducks wouldn't have traded him?
You think wrong, which I suspect is not that uncommon for you, though I doubt you know that. Even so, what does that have to do with what I said?

Quote:
Here are their stats:

Kariya
Regular Season:
395GP 225G 267A 492P +87 133PIM
Playoffs:
14GP 8G 9A 17P -2 4PIM

Selanne
Regular Season:
394GP 225G 257A 482P +58 146PIM
Playoffs:
15GP 9G 5A 14P -6 6PIM
So?

Quote:
your right I didn't get to see a lot of games, but got to see all the highlights, all his canada games, so I was able to see the skill level. kariya cup run, the new coach had a contender team but was committed to defense and trap systems.
And that's all you saw. That team was not a contender, and the success they had in that one run had nothing to do with Kariya.

Quote:
plus back then the goalie equipment was gigantic. gigure covered the whole net just standing tgethere you couldn't score. how come when the league regulated the goalie equipment he wasn't that good anymore?
Did you miss 2004 and 2006 and 2007 and 2008? Ffs. WATCH instead of just reading what's being shoved in your face by the know-nothing Canadian media.

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04-15-2013, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
Selanne missed 4 games that year, 2 of them due to injury. 2 games is no one's definition of "very often".

You think wrong, which I suspect is not that uncommon for you, though I doubt you know that. Even so, what does that have to do with what I said?



So?



And that's all you saw. That team was not a contender, and the success they had in that one run had nothing to do with Kariya.



Did you miss 2004 and 2006 and 2007 and 2008? Ffs. WATCH instead of just reading what's being shoved in your face by the know-nothing Canadian media.

Dude, the Numbers don't lie. Kariya was a 3x first team all star for a reason. you could argue he was the most talented player in duck franchise history easily... And i think when it comes to hockey the Canadian Media knows a thing or two more then the USA media, have you ever watched a hockey game on NBC, or ABC? the Commentary is brutal lol.


But, i didnt watch much of js giguere as a duck after the kariya era, i didnt even watch the cup final when they won. i did see js giguere when he played for my leafs, and he was horrible, it was very frusterating.


im starting to wonder if you even watched kariya play in the 90s, probably not because you were probably born in the late 90s...

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04-15-2013, 10:47 AM
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i was happy that they beat ottawa tho...

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04-15-2013, 10:52 AM
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Dude, the Numbers don't lie. Kariya was a 3x first team all star for a reason. you could argue he was the most talented player in duck franchise history easily...
He was first team all-star because he was chosen as the best left wing in the league. Whether he was the most talented player in franchise history is a different question, with a different answer. Since you admittedly didn't watch the Ducks in the 90s and admittedly don't watch them now, I'm not sure why you've decided he's the most talented guy and have now come to preach about it. Personally, I think it's because you're a moron who's too ignorant to understand how stupid you are, but only having limited interaction with you, I'm going to hold off on that opinion until I've seen you more before locking it down.

And AGAIN, Kariya's talent level has nothing to do with your criticism of Selanne, which is what I was answering.

Quote:
And i think when it comes to hockey the Canadian Media knows a thing or two more then the USA media, have you ever watched a hockey game on NBC, or ABC? the Commentary is brutal lol.
And again you'd be wrong. Their top-end guys are better, but the landscape is littered with morons who have nothing to offer but shallow commentary based on dated and irrelevant stats and highlight reels. But, I see you are a disciple.

Quote:
But, i didnt watch much of js giguere as a duck after the kariya era, i didnt even watch the cup final when they won. i did see js giguere when he played for my leafs, and he was horrible, it was very frusterating.
Wow, no ****, really? You don't watch hockey except for highlights and the Maple Leafs? That's so surprising.

Quote:
im starting to wonder if you even watched kariya play in the 90s, probably not because you were probably born in the late 90s...
Because highlights and stats tell you something so profound that it's impossible that anyone who watched hundreds of his games could disagree with you?

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04-15-2013, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Damn Skippy View Post
He was first team all-star because he was chosen as the best left wing in the league. Whether he was the most talented player in franchise history is a different question, with a different answer. Since you admittedly didn't watch the Ducks in the 90s and admittedly don't watch them now, I'm not sure why you've decided he's the most talented guy and have now come to preach about it. Personally, I think it's because you're a moron who's too ignorant to understand how stupid you are, but only having limited interaction with you, I'm going to hold off on that opinion until I've seen you more before locking it down.

And AGAIN, Kariya's talent level has nothing to do with your criticism of Selanne, which is what I was answering.



And again you'd be wrong. Their top-end guys are better, but the landscape is littered with morons who have nothing to offer but shallow commentary based on dated and irrelevant stats and highlight reels. But, I see you are a disciple.



Wow, no ****, really? You don't watch hockey except for highlights and the Maple Leafs? That's so surprising.



Because highlights and stats tell you something so profound that it's impossible that anyone who watched hundreds of his games could disagree with you?

Dude, i watched him play. i seen what kariya can do, idiot lol. did i watch every second of kariya's life? no. But i watched him play, plus seen the numbers he put up which wasnt surprising for a player of his caliber, especially in the 90's. I live in Canada, hockey is basically a religion here, i grew up learning and playing the game. and still play, I Know the game. I dont however follow every nhl franchise, but paid a lot of attention to Kariya's career especially in Anaheim. We all have our own opinions based on what we see, and my opinion on Kariya still stands. Its interesting to see Duck Fans debate about it on here, i was curious.

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04-15-2013, 11:55 AM
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All I will say is that Karyia was no where near the best left wing in the 90s. To say that is downright ignorant.

The fact you are admitting that you mostly only watched highlights of duck games does not make you an expert as to how the team was through the 90s and early 2k's. That you follow the leafs makes your argument even more suspect since most leaf fans that people meet on message boards tend to be very one sided in their points of views to their team (which is understandable).

Hockey in the US has been around long enough that they can hold their own in certain media circles, even with the Canadian media. However, Canadian media is so biased against anything in the US it becomes laughable.

The ONLY reason Ana went to the cup finals in '03 was because of Giguere. Not Karyia.

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04-15-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by navyduck View Post
All I will say is that Karyia was no where near the best left wing in the 90s. To say that is downright ignorant.

The fact you are admitting that you mostly only watched highlights of duck games does not make you an expert as to how the team was through the 90s and early 2k's. That you follow the leafs makes your argument even more suspect since most leaf fans that people meet on message boards tend to be very one sided in their points of views to their team (which is understandable).

Hockey in the US has been around long enough that they can hold their own in certain media circles, even with the Canadian media. However, Canadian media is so biased against anything in the US it becomes laughable.

The ONLY reason Ana went to the cup finals in '03 was because of Giguere. Not Karyia.

Hold on, who was a better left wing in that time span when Kariya was a 3 x first team all star? also, it takes a special player to make the kind of impact on a team the way kariya did in the 90s. Super Star players do get the recognition, its always been that way. Michael Jordan was the best basketball player i ever seen in my life, did i watch every michael Jordan game? no, i didnt, but i seen him play enough times.


JS Giguere wasnt the reason they went to the cup that year, the summer before the Ducks Spent some money and brought in key players so they can contend. thats usually how it works, the teams that spend the money put the best product out on the ice.

Like today, there are still impact players that you hear about in the hockey world, Sidney Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin ect. Thats what it was like with Kariya in those peak years.

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04-15-2013, 12:15 PM
  #24
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I think he should be retired in Anaheim. His numbers in a duck uniform were amazing, what he helped lead the team to in 2003 was an amazing run, yes it was on the back of giguere but kariya was part of that team and one of the main parts of that team.

So the guy wanted to win a cup and went to play with his best friend oh well, if you gave me a chance to play for that colorado team i would have packed my bags too that team was loaded.

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04-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Starkiller View Post
Dude, i watched him play. i seen what kariya can do, idiot lol. did i watch every second of kariya's life? no. But i watched him play, plus seen the numbers he put up which wasnt surprising for a player of his caliber, especially in the 90's. I live in Canada, hockey is basically a religion here, i grew up learning and playing the game. and still play, I Know the game. I dont however follow every nhl franchise, but paid a lot of attention to Kariya's career especially in Anaheim. We all have our own opinions based on what we see, and my opinion on Kariya still stands. Its interesting to see Duck Fans debate about it on here, i was curious.
Your opinion is based upon limited information. Highlights does not make a complete picture of someone's game. Nor does ignoring contemporary information, meaning in the now.

You can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean you're still ignorant.

What you say about Kariya and his numbers will fade so much sooner than you think. Accolades are cool, but accomplishments with accolades are better. Has Kariya ever raised a Conn Smythe? Nope. Raised a Stanley Cup? Nope. Raised a Hart Trophy? Nope.

With the current re-signing of the Twins, that means Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry (just in case you were not up to date with contemporary information), both of those players will easily eclipse most of Kariya's team's records within a year or two. Should the Ducks retain Bobby Ryan, the guy that wears #9 now, be retained after his contract is up, then he too will also surpass Kariya's team records. Should the team retire #9 in Kariya's name when he holds no or little statistical team records?

It's nice to celebrate history, but you must keep your opinions to yourself when you try to share them with fans of a franchise you're not a part of because you now lack relevancy with respect to the contemporary as well as a deluge of information.

Highlights are like dates, you only see the best parts in limited amounts of time. Only when you're living with 'em do you truly see how a person behaves. This Kariya business is in-house, to which you are not a part of, apparently.

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