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Old
04-16-2013, 10:32 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I have a much bigger problem with the Ott incident than what he did yesterday. That was a clean attempt at a hit, he didn't go in with the elbow high or jump.

I love that our fans continuously throw Habs players under the bus and consider themselves "good fans".
doesnt matter, still a hit to the head.

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04-16-2013, 10:36 AM
  #52
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Maybe. But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has helped us more than he's hurt us? Like I said in my previous post, when you have a limited skill set, you can't afford to be on the wrong side of that ratio.
This season I agree he has been on the other side of the ratio but he brings a dynamic to our game that we lack. Physicality, standing up for his team. I'm sick of seeing our guys getting hit and seeing Gionta just skate up to them and stand there or players just holding each other by their jerseys.

No, we need more of this:


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04-16-2013, 10:41 AM
  #53
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Kent Huskins suffered a concussion Monday night following a high hit from Montreal's Ryan White.
He was hurt early in the first period and White was ejected for the incident and he'll probably hear from the league. "That's the part of the game that they're trying to take out," said Kurtis Foster, who jumped to Huskins' defense after the hit.

The irony of that statement coming from a member of the team that has Rinaldo and used to employ such upstanding chanracters as Mike Richards, Zolnercyk and Downie. They always seem to have 1-2 clowns that run around and take runs at guys from the blueline.

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04-16-2013, 11:02 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by almostjesus View Post
This season I agree he has been on the other side of the ratio but he brings a dynamic to our game that we lack. Physicality, standing up for his team. I'm sick of seeing our guys getting hit and seeing Gionta just skate up to them and stand there or players just holding each other by their jerseys.

No, we need more of this:

Absolutely. This is the Ryan White I want on my team. The question is how long do we wait to see if the pendulum winds up either in Todd Bertuzzi-esque Assault or in Timid Kitten instead of this region of happy moderation?

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04-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Maybe. But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has helped us more than he's hurt us? Like I said in my previous post, when you have a limited skill set, you can't afford to be on the wrong side of that ratio.
But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has been allowed to play his game?

White plays on the edge, he'll throw his body around, forecheck hard, try to play smart defensively, and will drop his gloves in a fraction of a second versus anybody to stick up for his teammates.

He started the year doing exactly just that, but Therrien wasn't ready to live with the bad side of having a guy trying to set a precedent. Since being scratched, White has changed his game, takes less risks, hasn't fought in two months, and simply looks lost or useless out there.

You can't tell this guy to tame his game. Either you let him play and live with the consequences (something most coaches do), or you scratch him whenever he gets in boiling water, make him change his game, rendering him useless.

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Originally Posted by idk View Post
Absolutely. This is the Ryan White I want on my team. The question is how long do we wait to see if the pendulum winds up either in Todd Bertuzzi-esque Assault or in Timid Kitten instead of this region of happy moderation?
This is the same Ryan White as you saw earlier this year. The only difference here is that Boychuk is no pest like Ott, or what many would consider ''softy'' like Fleischman.
So he actually dropped the gloves to fight White, who came at the defense of Subban, like he came to the defense of Gorges this year.

It's the same guy, playing the exact same way. This until Therrien talked+scratched him for playing that way. There's a reason why he's disappeared, and it's not because he doesn't want to play that way. You can tell the kid just wants to explode out there and play aggressive but he's holding back.

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Old
04-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has been allowed to play his game?

White plays on the edge, he'll throw his body around, forecheck hard, try to play smart defensively, and will drop his gloves in a fraction of a second versus anybody to stick up for his teammates.

He started the year doing exactly just that, but Therrien wasn't ready to live with the bad side of having a guy trying to set a precedent. Since being scratched, White has changed his game, takes less risks, hasn't fought in two months, and simply looks lost or useless out there.

You can't tell this guy to tame his game. Either you let him play and live with the consequences (something most coaches do), or you scratch him whenever he gets in boiling water, make him change his game, rendering him useless.



This is the same Ryan White as you saw earlier this year. The only difference here is that Boychuk is no pest like Ott, or what many would consider ''softy'' like Fleischman.
So he actually dropped the gloves to fight White, who came at the defense of Subban, like he came to the defense of Gorges this year.

It's the same guy, playing the exact same way. This until Therrien talked+scratched him for playing that way. There's a reason why he's disappeared, and it's not because he doesn't want to play that way. You can tell the kid just wants to explode out there and play aggressive but he's holding back.
Good post.
Therrien has neutered him this year and White has been unable to play his game. Unfortunately, White type physical play is what this team needs badly, there are too many soft players on the habs.

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04-16-2013, 12:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Maybe. But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has helped us more than he's hurt us? Like I said in my previous post, when you have a limited skill set, you can't afford to be on the wrong side of that ratio.
This.

All White does is run around and hit people and do the rah rah stuff. That's great and all for the whole pump up the team stuff and for some sandpaper. Issue is he's actually pretty mediocre at the whole playing hockey part of playing hockey, and if you're only good at fighting and running around making largely superfluous hits you can't be taking penalties all the time. The bottom line is he's basically the epitome if a replacement level player, there are guys in free agency that can replace what he does every single year and you don't have to pay them much.

I'm not saying we need to trade him ASAP for a 7th rounder, but if he got traded at the draft I wouldn't really be disappointed. If he learns to ease into it and figure out how to pick his spots he's a good guy to have around in the 12/13th forward spot, but at some point you have to wonder how many more boneheaded plays you can tolerate from a guy with 3 NHL goals.

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04-16-2013, 01:32 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
This.

All White does is run around and hit people and do the rah rah stuff. That's great and all for the whole pump up the team stuff and for some sandpaper. Issue is he's actually pretty mediocre at the whole playing hockey part of playing hockey, and if you're only good at fighting and running around making largely superfluous hits you can't be taking penalties all the time. The bottom line is he's basically the epitome if a replacement level player, there are guys in free agency that can replace what he does every single year and you don't have to pay them much.
The thing is, when your team can easily be humiliated physically like the Leafs have done this year, or the Flyers that can pretty toss our players around like dolls, well, the no leash Ryan White would be a very welcomed addition.
And no, White isn't mediocre at hockey. He can skate well, he can forecheck hard, and he can play responsibly in his own end, he can even play on the PK. White is actually a very good example of what you want out of your fourth liner. Defensively responsible good skater with some size, sandpaper, can hold his own in a fight and is more than happy to drop the gloves to protect his teammates.

The problem is management doesn't want him to play the way he's used to, hence the ''talk'', then the scratch + comment ''he better have learned''.

Yes, you're right, you can get guys like him on the free agency front but they'll likely cost more than White, who's only paid 687K.

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04-16-2013, 01:42 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Noob616 View Post
This.

All White does is run around and hit people and do the rah rah stuff. That's great and all for the whole pump up the team stuff and for some sandpaper. Issue is he's actually pretty mediocre at the whole playing hockey part of playing hockey, and if you're only good at fighting and running around making largely superfluous hits you can't be taking penalties all the time. The bottom line is he's basically the epitome if a replacement level player, there are guys in free agency that can replace what he does every single year and you don't have to pay them much.

I'm not saying we need to trade him ASAP for a 7th rounder, but if he got traded at the draft I wouldn't really be disappointed. If he learns to ease into it and figure out how to pick his spots he's a good guy to have around in the 12/13th forward spot, but at some point you have to wonder how many more boneheaded plays you can tolerate from a guy with 3 NHL goals.
White is fine on the 4th line......

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04-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by bud12 View Post
White is fine on the 4th line......
Not if he's taking 5+ a game penalties all the time.

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04-16-2013, 02:07 PM
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White could become the next Asham elsewhre, or just disappear in the AHL forever....


Who was the genious who convinced the past Habs GM to take White over Marchard or Clutterbuck ?

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04-16-2013, 02:25 PM
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Probably the same genius who convinced him to take Subban over Kevin Marshall.

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04-16-2013, 02:26 PM
  #63
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Not if he's taking 5+ a game penalties all the time.
5 min for fighting? No problem with that. Some people need to calm down with that.

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04-16-2013, 02:28 PM
  #64
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Not if he's taking 5+ a game penalties all the time.
That happened twice, in 25 games, and you can argue that one of those times (yesterday) was accidental.

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04-16-2013, 02:57 PM
  #65
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That happened twice, in 25 games, and you can argue that one of those times (yesterday) was accidental.
I'm not just talking about those, the penalty for whining to the refs, the goalie interference calls, he doesn't seem to be able to reign in the physicality at a decent level and he's not good enough at anything else to compensate.

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04-16-2013, 03:01 PM
  #66
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In person hearing with Shanny does this mean 5 games for sure

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04-16-2013, 03:03 PM
  #67
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In person hearing with Shanny does this mean 5 games for sure
No, just means he could get 5, or more.

A phone hearing means it can't be more than 5.

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04-16-2013, 03:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
But looking at the season on the whole, can you really say beyond a shadow of a doubt that White has been allowed to play his game?
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Good post.
Therrien has neutered him this year and White has been unable to play his game. Unfortunately, White type physical play is what this team needs badly, there are too many soft players on the habs.
What was Therrien supposed to do, seriously? Let him continue to run rough-shod and completely counter to the "team concept" he's been pitching to the entire team?

IMO you guys are taking way too much responsibility out of White's hands. No doubt Therrien had some harsh words for him, but to suggest he "neutered him" or is preventing him from playing his game is silly. White's a big boy, he has to figure out how to get his game on the right side of the edge to be able to play effectively without costing his team.

Plenty of players have been through what White's going through. Asham was a fine example, Rinaldo is another. Cooke is an extreme case, but he fits too. Guys who had to either figure it out, or lose their jobs.

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04-16-2013, 03:11 PM
  #69
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I like what White brings to the team. He is young and has to learn when to be aggresive and when to be docile.This will come with time. I do like that he is a RFA and can be re-signed for about 740 000$.

Although I disagree with the hit on Huskins, especially if there was intent to injure, I can say that a small part of me was glad that for once we were the aggresor.

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04-16-2013, 03:29 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
White could become the next Asham elsewhre, or just disappear in the AHL forever....


Who was the genious who convinced the past Habs GM to take White over Marchard or Clutterbuck ?
Cherry picking at its finest. He was a 4th round pick and there are (without checking) probably a handful of players who are more established than him.

How many teams are saying I wish we would of taken Subban or Gallagher, etc. It goes both ways.

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04-16-2013, 03:36 PM
  #71
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Cherry picking at its finest. He was a 4th round pick and there are (without checking) probably a handful of players who are more established than him.

How many teams are saying I wish we would of taken Subban or Gallagher, etc. It goes both ways.
The one I like to point out is that the year we took Halak, the Pens took Fleury 1st overall. Anyone want to tell me the Pens wouldn't rather have any of the stars taken in the 1st round of 2003 + Halak than just Fleury?

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04-16-2013, 03:37 PM
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I'm not just talking about those, the penalty for whining to the refs, the goalie interference calls, he doesn't seem to be able to reign in the physicality at a decent level and he's not good enough at anything else to compensate.
Well you said 5+game, so, you weren't talking about minor penalties.

The guy has 11 minor penalties, I believe 3-4 of them are roughing involved in fights.
So he has taken 7-8 penalties. So he has to work on his discipline a bit, like plenty of young players in his role.
Still, he is a 4th liner that is bring restricted to play his natural way.
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
What was Therrien supposed to do, seriously? Let him continue to run rough-shod and completely counter to the "team concept" he's been pitching to the entire team?
Well, I don't understand how a player that is dropping the gloves to pound away on a guy that just boarded one of your leaders, one of the assistant captains, is countering the idea of ''team concept''.
Sticking up for your teammate that was drilled into the boards from behind sounds like something a team player would do, not a selfish one.
I'm not saying White didn't have to work on his discipline, I just think they chose the wrong penalties to blame him on.

Speaking of team concept. You have a young kid that gives his 100% every time, who's willing to drop the glove and likely take a beating from bigger guys just to stick up for his teammates, I would imagine that the rest of the guys that are all about ''team concept'' could back him up and kill the penalties.

I'm not saying they should kill every single penalties. All I'm saying is that this ''team concept'' excuse is a little lame and can be spun both ways.

At the end of the day, all White did was try to stick up for himself (vs Ott), and his teammate (vs Fleischman). Maybe you can say he was selfish vs Buffalo, but he got suckered into it by Ott, you live you learn, but I didn't expect him to have to change his game entirely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
IMO you guys are taking way too much responsibility out of White's hands. No doubt Therrien had some harsh words for him, but to suggest he "neutered him" or is preventing him from playing his game is silly. White's a big boy, he has to figure out how to get his game on the right side of the edge to be able to play effectively without costing his team.

Plenty of players have been through what White's going through. Asham was a fine example, Rinaldo is another. Cooke is an extreme case, but he fits too. Guys who had to either figure it out, or lose their jobs.
He didn't cost the team anything. It's not because you take a penalty and get scored on that the rest of the 58min should be piled onto you. That way of thinking is the exact opposite of ''team concept'', something we're apparently trying to build.

I don't think Therrien neutered him. I think he gave him strict directives as to what he wants, I think he also scared White because he made it very public that if he screws up again it won't just be scratched for a couple of games.
So that gives you a Ryan White that goes on the ice and plays on his toes, it's painfully obvious just looking at the guy that he's playing stressed, he doesn't look comfortable at all out there. That's probably the reason why he hasn't fought in over two months (last 18 games), or in other words, since he pounded Ott and got scratched for it.

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Old
04-16-2013, 03:41 PM
  #73
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doesnt matter, still a hit to the head.
Matters a lot in terms of intent.

You can lead with the shoulder and intend to hit a guy clean and accidentally hit him in the head(see Malonen on suspension vs Campoli), if you lead with the elbow then you clearly intend to hit the guy in the head.

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04-16-2013, 03:44 PM
  #74
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I don't wanna give up on white yet, he has the skills to be a good bottom line guy, we want toughness that can skate instead of a plug right? Well this guy can skate only thing is he doesn't know how to play his role yet. He either plays completely neutered or completely out of control, it's hard for the coach to play him cause you can't trust him.

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04-16-2013, 04:09 PM
  #75
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No, just means he could get 5, or more.

A phone hearing means it can't be more than 5.
believe i just heard it's minimum 5, per nhlnetwork.

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