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The Carey Price Discussion Thread (part 2)

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04-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #801
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Originally Posted by compile View Post
Lol. I'm done.
Thank goodness.

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04-25-2013, 12:51 PM
  #802
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who's arguing with you...I just disagreed with the notion that it matters whether or not Carey Price is 'elite'

you explained you stance on that, i'm good...I guess I had misread your post

Take a deep breath
Of course it matters.

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04-25-2013, 12:56 PM
  #803
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Of course it matters.
if it matters it should not depend on your personal definition of "elite" , no ?

Same thing for staged fights, tons of people are supposedly against them but no one ever takes the time to define them. Its nice to be opposed to something on principle, but if you can define what an
" elite" goaltender is, it would be nice to know what this actually means, otherwise it devolves into an argument of " my definition of elite is better than yours"

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04-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #804
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Of course it matters.
wll that's where we disagree...

Whether Carey Price is elite or not has no bearing on what success the Habs can have with him in nets

unless you believe that only teams with elite goalies win the Cup - which we all know is not the case

Teams have won the Cup with goalies who aren't considered elite (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit), while some teams have won with what people consider elite goalies (Kings with Quick, but who here thought he was 'elite' before last year???? anyone???) while plenty of teams that have had elite goaltending (Rangers with Lundqvist, Sabres with Miller) have never even gotten to a Cup final.

I think you just need a goalie to get really hot at the right time, and you have a chance...and really, any goalie can get hot at any time.


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04-25-2013, 01:40 PM
  #805
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There is no way anybody can defend soft goals and mental weakness. Don't care what stats show about defense or anything else, a soft goal is a soft goal. Personally I am disappointed in Price. Don't need to look at stats or anything, I just watch him play and I am disappointed. I thought he would be a mentally tougher goalie by now, but it hasn't happened yet. He is still young for a goalie and maybe it will come later on. But this year has been disappointing as far as I'm concerned, he's just mentally weak for the big games. When the teams play dips a little or in big games, that's when he has to be strong and he hasn't.

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04-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
More excuses... Keep em coming. The funny thing is I never brought up stats. You did.

He has made some good saves....OK. Does he deserve a medal for that? The point is he has let in many goals that he should have stopped. If you're going to call him "elite" or top 5 then his play simply isn't good enough. IF you want to call him an average goalie with elite potential then I'm fine with that. I do like the personal attacks from anyone who has disagreed with me though. Shows just how juvenille some of you are.

Carey Price is not elite. You can ***** and moan and blame all you want. He simply isn't at this point.
Your opinion is invalidated for the simple fact you don't understand the game of Hockey at all. Not only that you completely ignored my question about naming some teams.

Or does your royal highness believe he's the greatest talent assessor of his time. Oh wait I'll probably get reported for calling you "royal highness."

Your observations are completely wrong. They were right up until the point that Budaj was put in net only to be replaced by the same goalie you are crying about. Maybe its not all on Price but the WHOLE damn team. Actually it is the WHOLE damn team and you fail yet again at seeing that.

Individual awards mean nothing at all, especially when people have to VOTE on them. IE, Vezina, Conn Smyth etc.

The only true awards are the Maurice Richard and Hart as they are a pure statistical award. That is also besides the point because majority (if not all) of the players could care less about individual awards.

Do you think G.S Giguere cared for winning the Conn Smyth while losing the Stanely Cup?

Again name me teams that have won a Stanely Cup in the past decade that:
A)Have won without a solid defense.
B)Have won without a solid defense and a elite goalie.
C)Have won with a solid defense and a mediocre goalie.
D)Have won with a solid defense and a sub avg goalie.

hockeyfan2k11 > the history of the game.

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04-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
There is no way anybody can defend soft goals and mental weakness. Don't care what stats show about defense or anything else, a soft goal is a soft goal. Personally I am disappointed in Price. Don't need to look at stats or anything, I just watch him play and I am disappointed. I thought he would be a mentally tougher goalie by now, but it hasn't happened yet. He is still young for a goalie and maybe it will come later on. But this year has been disappointing as far as I'm concerned, he's just mentally weak for the big games. When the teams play dips a little or in big games, that's when he has to be strong and he hasn't.
Depends on your definition of soft goals.

I'll say he was definitely really bad in the Washington game on the two Ovechkin goals.. but I can't fault him in the Devils game or the Philly game.

Toronto game has no excuses, he was god-awful.

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04-25-2013, 01:46 PM
  #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
There is no way anybody can defend soft goals and mental weakness. Don't care what stats show about defense or anything else, a soft goal is a soft goal. Personally I am disappointed in Price. Don't need to look at stats or anything, I just watch him play and I am disappointed. I thought he would be a mentally tougher goalie by now, but it hasn't happened yet. He is still young for a goalie and maybe it will come later on. But this year has been disappointing as far as I'm concerned, he's just mentally weak for the big games. When the teams play dips a little or in big games, that's when he has to be strong and he hasn't.
A)He's no where near his prime.
B)A goalie is only as good as his defense.
C)If the team was better defensively Carey Price, Halak, Huet, Roy et al wouldn't have to "steal a game." Why don't some of you understand that?

Let's give up on a 25 year old goalie. While we're at it, include Subban, Kristo (what a FLOP he's not even in the NHL!), Leblanc, etc.

Let's be perennial tankers and rebuilders.

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04-25-2013, 01:47 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Depends on your definition of soft goals.

I'll say he was definitely really bad in the Washington game on the two Ovechkin goals.. but I can't fault him in the Devils game or the Philly game.

Toronto game has no excuses, he was god-awful.
Agreed.

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04-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #810
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Again name me teams that have won a Stanely Cup in the past decade that:
A)Have won without a solid defense.
B)Have won without a solid defense and a elite goalie.
C)Have won with a solid defense and a mediocre goalie. > Last I remember, Hawks with Niemi.
D)Have won with a solid defense and a sub avg goalie.

hockeyfan2k11 > the history of the game.
Voila.

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04-25-2013, 01:56 PM
  #811
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Voila.
So that proves to you that...

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04-25-2013, 01:57 PM
  #812
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A)He's no where near his prime.
B)A goalie is only as good as his defense.
C)If the team was better defensively Carey Price, Halak, Huet, Roy et al wouldn't have to "steal a game." Why don't some of you understand that?

Let's give up on a 25 year old goalie. While we're at it, include Subban, Kristo (what a FLOP he's not even in the NHL!), Leblanc, etc.

Let's be perennial tankers and rebuilders.
No one is saying he has to steal every game. But sometimes even when good teams are having a slow night, a goalie has to steal a game or two here and there. When the team is having a bad period, good goalies usually find a way to bail the team out..that's it! And Price hasn't done that this year. No one is talking about giving up on him, but mentally he just hasn't gotten there yet. For the first 30 games of the season Carey hasn't had alot of stealing to do, team played great in front of him and on most nights he had easy nights. Now that the team slowed down a little, it would have been fun to see Carey take charge and carry the team or bail them out of a few games, but he hasn't done it. If Price would have only been average in the last 10 games Habs would have already secured 1st place in the division by now.

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04-25-2013, 01:59 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
No one is saying he has to steal every game. But sometimes even when good teams are having a slow night, a goalie has to steal a game or two here and there. When the team is having a bad period, good goalies usually find a way to bail the team out..that's it! And Price hasn't done that this year. No one is talking about giving up on him, but mentally he just hasn't got there yet. For the first 30 games of the season Carey hasn't had alot of stealing to do, team played great in front of him and on most nights he had easy nights. Now that the team slowed down a little, it would have fun to Carey take charge and carry the team or bail them out of a few games, but he hasn't done it. If Price would have only been average in the last 10 games Habs would have already secured 1st place in the division by now.
So I guess keeping the game 3-0 while the team collapses in front of him, says he's not helping the team.

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04-25-2013, 01:59 PM
  #814
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So that proves to you that...
you asked a Q, I awnsered it.

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04-25-2013, 02:00 PM
  #815
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you asked a Q, I awnsered it.
Haha true. Ok you get a +1.

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04-25-2013, 02:03 PM
  #816
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wll that's where we disagree...

Whether Carey Price is elite or not has no bearing on what success the Habs can have with him in nets

unless you believe that only teams with elite goalies win the Cup - which we all know is not the case

Teams have won the Cup with goalies who aren't considered elite (Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit), while some teams have won with what people consider elite goalies (Kings with Quick, but who here thought he was 'elite' before last year???? anyone???) while plenty of teams that have had elite goaltending (Rangers with Lundqvist, Sabres with Miller) have never even gotten to a Cup final.

I think you just need a goalie to get really hot at the right time, and you have a chance...and really, any goalie can get hot at any time.
Tim Thomas was the single reason Boston won the cup in 2011, that and luck I guess. But that's what an elite goaltender can do for you.

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04-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #817
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So I guess keeping the game 3-0 while the team collapses in front of him, says he's not helping the team.
Wow..very low expectations you have there. That's not helping the team. Helping the team would be stealing the show for one period and keeping it tied. How about he does that just once this year!

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04-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #818
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Tim Thomas was the single reason Boston won the cup in 2011, that and luck I guess. But that's what an elite goaltender can do for you.
and chances are that again, the cup will be won this year with a goalie not considered part of the "elite group" (Crawford, Emery, Fleury, Hiller, Fasth).

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04-25-2013, 02:09 PM
  #819
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Tim Thomas was the single reason Boston won the cup in 2011, that and luck I guess. But that's what an elite goaltender can do for you.
Marc-André Fleury was a big reason Pens won the Cup too...I don't consider him 'elite', or rather I don't believe anyone calls him an elite goalie

Again, it's great to have an elite goalie, but it's not a necessity to win the Cup

Many factors influence a teams successful capture of a Cup...it can vary from year to year, team to team.

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04-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #820
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Marc-André Fleury was a big reason Pens won the Cup too...I don't consider him 'elite', or rather I don't believe anyone calls him an elite goalie

Again, it's great to have an elite goalie, but it's not a necessity to win the Cup

Many factors influence a teams successful capture of a Cup...it can vary from year to year, team to team.
Like you said, sometimes all it takes is a goalie playing over their head. It's not impossible, just not always that likely.

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04-25-2013, 02:35 PM
  #821
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We see year after year that a different model can win the cup.

I think we can all agree, like Price or not, that he has great puckhandling skills, great size, mobility for that size and rebound control. We can circular argument all day about his mental focus, his ability to make big saves (not even a question in my mind that he can), or his athleticism (like really? he's definitely athletic).. but we can all agree on those fundamental aspects.

If we built a defensive system that centered around taking away odd-man rushes and giving away the slot, kept things to the outside.. we'd have far more success.

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04-25-2013, 02:45 PM
  #822
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Like you said, sometimes all it takes is a goalie playing over their head. It's not impossible, just not always that likely.
well it's been as likely in recent years as having 'elite' goalies carry teams to Stanley Cups like Patrick Roy did for the Habs in 93'

These days, all goalies are really good...the difference is often what's outside the crease.

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04-25-2013, 02:53 PM
  #823
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well it's been as likely in recent years as having 'elite' goalies carry teams to Stanley Cups like Patrick Roy did for the Habs in 93'

These days, all goalies are really good...the difference is often what's outside the crease.
Definitely almost every team has a good goalie these days, but still today if a goalie gets really hot at the right time he can deliver a cup. Last year when Kings won the cup they had a good team and a solid defense...but Quick was lights out, he was making jaw dropping saves. Unless your line-up is totally stacked like Chicago in 2010 for example, you still need a goalie that gets hot when it counts the most.

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04-25-2013, 03:18 PM
  #824
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Only 6 out of the last 18 Conn Smythe winners have been goalies ever since Montreal's 93 cup run.

I'd hardly call 33.3% "most of the time".
Not bad for players who are representing 5 percent of their team.

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04-25-2013, 03:23 PM
  #825
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Not bad for players who are representing 5 percent of their team.
Heh, or a guy who is on the ice 100% of the time.

Hey, stats are fun.

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