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Bozak commanding over 5 million

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Old
04-19-2013, 04:33 PM
  #451
thatshype
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
Vermette is clearly better and while Koivu has lost a step for obvious reasons, he still brings more than Bozak does offensively. Anyways, the average salary for the guys not bolded this year is just under 2m per. He is better than them and should get more, although we aren't going to use faceoffs in this case against Gordon because he is a better faceoff guy over the last couple years than Bozak.

Using the guys bolded, Vermette has been better offensively and defensively, on faceoffs, and is more physical. Not sure how there is a debate either. He makes 3.75 per. Backes and Staal should really be kept as far out of this thread as possible. Using Richards is equally as bad since this is considered an absolute atrocious season for him offensively and he still only has 2 less points in fewer games and was never signed as anything other than a top offensive center. Still good in his own end though. Zajak is just better defensively. No argument to make at all. Looking like a bad contract now hint hint

This is the biggest problem. I keep reading about how Bozak is really good defensively. He isn't a top tier defensive player. He's not even top 3 on this team. He's not on the same tier as guys like vermette and Zajak in that respect. He's also not on the same tier as other 1st, and most 2nd line centers offensively. He's good on faceoffs, but everytime someone brings up other first line centers who are as good, it becomes a joke in respect to them. He is the same offensively on the first line as Vermette is on the 2nd in freaking Phoenix. He has never put up the same numbers as Staal did on the 3rd line in Pitts. He is regularly outscored by other members of his own team who play on the 2nd line. What value exactly does that give him above Vermette, contractually or otherwise?
Well I won't address the "who's better" thing, because that's a circular debate that largely doesn't have a resolution for either of us.

Addressing the numbers, Vermette at $3.5M has been outscored by Bozak last season and this season....both at a relatively significant rate. I don't expect Bozak's agent to ask for Vermette's contract because the point totals over the past two seasons suggests Bozak is worth more. Again I'm NOT talking about who has better hands or better vision or ANYTHING like that....just talking dollars&cents and goals&assists. Bozak has the right to ask for more than $3.5M.

Next, when you look at Backes, he's on a very team friendly contract at $4.5M. That's a great contract and I don't think anybody in St Louis is upset with his contract. His production compares favourably to Bozie....Backes outscored Bozak by 7 points with 9 more games played last year, and Bozak is outscoring Backes by 3 points with 1 additional GP this season. I DEFINITELY do not think Bozak is better than Backes, but as far as point-totals go they are around equal. Keeping in mind that $4.5M is a hometown discount for Backes, I think it's totally reasonable for Bozak to sign for the same. The hometown discount for Backes will be greater than the discount for Bozak because yes, Backes is the better player. I just think $4.5M is pretty reasonable for Bozak.

As for Zajac, yea I also won't argue that Zajac is the better player. But I'm also not saying Bozak is worth more than Zajac's $5.75M. He is likely worth a full million dollars less, putting Bozak at $4.75M which is pretty much exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. It's not as cap-friendly as Backes or Vermette's, but it's the nature of the sport (all pro sports) that agents' look to cash-in when their client performs well statistically.

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04-19-2013, 04:34 PM
  #452
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Id say that the four bolded are at his level or better. And those guys are all making under $4m and statistically he might be a bit better than some of them, hes not blowing them out out of the water. Especially when he plays the amount of time he does with who he plays with.
Stajan??? Really????

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04-19-2013, 04:48 PM
  #453
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Well I won't address the "who's better" thing, because that's a circular debate that largely doesn't have a resolution for either of us.

Addressing the numbers, Vermette at $3.5M has been outscored by Bozak last season and this season....both at a relatively significant rate. I don't expect Bozak's agent to ask for Vermette's contract because the point totals over the past two seasons suggests Bozak is worth more. Again I'm NOT talking about who has better hands or better vision or ANYTHING like that....just talking dollars&cents and goals&assists. Bozak has the right to ask for more than $3.5M.

Next, when you look at Backes, he's on a very team friendly contract at $4.5M. That's a great contract and I don't think anybody in St Louis is upset with his contract. His production compares favourably to Bozie....Backes outscored Bozak by 7 points with 9 more games played last year, and Bozak is outscoring Backes by 3 points with 1 additional GP this season. I DEFINITELY do not think Bozak is better than Backes, but as far as point-totals go they are around equal. Keeping in mind that $4.5M is a hometown discount for Backes, I think it's totally reasonable for Bozak to sign for the same. The hometown discount for Backes will be greater than the discount for Bozak because yes, Backes is the better player. I just think $4.5M is pretty reasonable for Bozak.

As for Zajac, yea I also won't argue that Zajac is the better player. But I'm also not saying Bozak is worth more than Zajac's $5.75M. He is likely worth a full million dollars less, putting Bozak at $4.75M which is pretty much exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. It's not as cap-friendly as Backes or Vermette's, but it's the nature of the sport (all pro sports) that agents' look to cash-in when their client performs well statistically.
Let me play devil's advocate. I'm the GM and I say, well, you know, offensively, Kessel and Lupul last year, and Kessel and JVR this year are somewhat better players than Boedker and Connor lately, and Boedker and Moss earlier, so maybe playing with better players has it's advantages? I mean, let's be honest here agent guy, Kadri is younger, better in every aspect of offense and in his first full time duties has made Bozak look 2nd/3rd linish in respect. Should I tell him he's not worth more than Bozak because of faceoff abilities when I could easily sign Gordon for less than half what you want, which would give this team flexibilty in the future, or should we just assume the cap will be 80m next season and give everyone huge raises?

Tell you what agent guy. I'll be sitting right here when you come back in 2 weeks. Why 2 weeks? Because after that I make offers to actual 1st line players. Hopefully by then you are happily getting that contract from somewhere else and we can stay friends or you take 3.5m a year, which you still aren't worth imo, and we can move on from this stupidity. What's that? You're good friends with Kessel? Better make sure your contract with that new team doesn't price them out of signing him next year for 7m...idiot

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04-19-2013, 04:56 PM
  #454
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Stajan??? Really????
Yeah Really. Bozak sees 3:00 more a game in ice time, most of which is PP time, while having played 5 more games. Bozak has seen 893:02 TOI, 6th in the league, Stajan has seen 673:45, 61st in the league. Bozak sees 2:59 a game in pp time, Stajan 0:10. Bozak has 9 PP points Stajan has none. Bozak has a whopping 4 points more, while playing a boat load more time.

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04-19-2013, 04:58 PM
  #455
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Let me play devil's advocate. I'm the GM and I say, well, you know, offensively, Kessel and Lupul last year, and Kessel and JVR this year are somewhat better players than Boedker and Connor lately, and Boedker and Moss earlier, so maybe playing with better players has it's advantages? I mean, let's be honest here agent guy, Kadri is younger, better in every aspect of offense and in his first full time duties has made Bozak look 2nd/3rd linish in respect. Should I tell him he's not worth more than Bozak because of faceoff abilities when I could easily sign Gordon for less than half what you want, which would give this team flexibilty in the future, or should we just assume the cap will be 80m next season and give everyone huge raises?

Tell you what agent guy. I'll be sitting right here when you come back in 2 weeks. Why 2 weeks? Because after that I make offers to actual 1st line players. Hopefully by then you are happily getting that contract from somewhere else and we can stay friends or you take 3.5m a year, which you still aren't worth imo, and we can move on from this stupidity. What's that? You're good friends with Kessel? Better make sure your contract with that new team doesn't price them out of signing him next year for 7m...idiot
Allow me to do the same, as the Agent:

So Mr. GM, you have a great player in Kessel, no doubt! Kadri seems like a real keeper too, but Kessel is your best player and you can never take away minutes from Phil. What's that? You've spent 4 seasons trying to find a player that lines up well with Kessel, and you're still putting my client on that line? Seems like Kessel is the kind of guy that needs a very specific set of linemates for him to be effective. We both know Kadri doesn't work with Kessel, so you'll still need somebody to take faceoffs when Kessel is on the ice.

Sure, I encourage you to go into the UFA pool and look for that 1st line player. Go for it! How does Ribeiro at $7.5M sound? Or Derek Roy at $6.5M? Don't forget you'll have to spend the next season and a half of missed passes before they start to work well together, and neither will be as effective as my client on the faceoff dot. With my client, you know exactly what you get, and you keep the best player on your team happy and productive. $5M sound like a better option?

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04-19-2013, 05:07 PM
  #456
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Allow me to do the same, as the Agent:

So Mr. GM, you have a great player in Kessel, no doubt! Kadri seems like a real keeper too, but Kessel is your best player and you can never take away minutes from Phil. What's that? You've spent 4 seasons trying to find a player that lines up well with Kessel, and you're still putting my client on that line? Seems like Kessel is the kind of guy that needs a very specific set of linemates for him to be effective. We both know Kadri doesn't work with Kessel, so you'll still need somebody to take faceoffs when Kessel is on the ice.

Sure, I encourage you to go into the UFA pool and look for that 1st line player. Go for it! How does Ribeiro at $7.5M sound? Or Derek Roy at $6.5M? Don't forget you'll have to spend the next season and a half of missed passes before they start to work well together, and neither will be as effective as my client on the faceoff dot. With my client, you know exactly what you get, and you keep the best player on your team happy and productive. $5M sound like a better option?
Except for a couple things. Bozak isn't a playmaker for Kessel.In fact, Kessel has outscored Bozak's assist total every year, and there has been a higher scoring 2nd player on that line than Bozak, so we won't exactly miss that for those games those passes just aren't clicking, will we. As far as the off zone faceoffs, well, lets be honest here. We win them, but lose the puck anyway. (big laugh) So I encourage you to take a long hard look at the teams in need of your services on the first or second line and see how many have cap problems already, or no players in Kessel's range to inflate your numbers. While you're out there, get Geiko. You'll need it. The team that signs you to that contract is a wreck

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04-19-2013, 05:19 PM
  #457
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Except for a couple things. Bozak isn't a playmaker for Kessel.In fact, Kessel has outscored Bozak's assist total every year, and there has been a higher scoring 2nd player on that line than Bozak, so we won't exactly miss that for those games those passes just aren't clicking, will we. As far as the off zone faceoffs, well, lets be honest here. We win them, but lose the puck anyway. (big laugh) So I encourage you to take a long hard look at the teams in need of your services on the first or second line and see how many have cap problems already, or no players in Kessel's range to inflate your numbers. While you're out there, get Geiko. You'll need it. The team that signs you to that contract is a wreck
Okay well role-playing aside here, Bozak has scored his own goals at a pretty respectable rate, and those goals aren't really coming off of beauty passes from his linemates. He's not exactly a scrub when it comes to generating offence. It's true that he's not making incredible passes that Kessel or Lupes are scoring from, but he is helping out the whole line offensively.

Look, in no way do I think Bozak is the key to the team's success, but it's hard to argue that this team wouldn't be worse if he wasn't here. Grabo and Kessel doesn't work. McClement and Kessel would be a waste both of Kessel's talent and McClement's icetime (he's more valuable to us playing on PK and defensive line duties). Kadri and Kessel has potential to work but it would take a lot of adjustment for both players, AND would make us a one-line team. We are better WITH Bozak then we are without him, and any potential replacements for a Center for Phil will cost us a pretty penny in UFA (Roy and Ribeiro, pretty much). I don't think it's very reasonable to expect the Leafs to trade for a C. It really doesn't give us many options.

If we let Bozak walk, then we take a step backwards next season. After missing the playoffs for so many years and then FINALLY making it this season (knock on wood), I don't think the fans, owners, managers, or players want to take a step backwards in the interest of frugality. Give Bozak some money on a short term deal and let's see what we have here.

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04-19-2013, 05:44 PM
  #458
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Okay well role-playing aside here, Bozak has scored his own goals at a pretty respectable rate, and those goals aren't really coming off of beauty passes from his linemates. He's not exactly a scrub when it comes to generating offence. It's true that he's not making incredible passes that Kessel or Lupes are scoring from, but he is helping out the whole line offensively.

Look, in no way do I think Bozak is the key to the team's success, but it's hard to argue that this team wouldn't be worse if he wasn't here. Grabo and Kessel doesn't work. McClement and Kessel would be a waste both of Kessel's talent and McClement's icetime (he's more valuable to us playing on PK and defensive line duties). Kadri and Kessel has potential to work but it would take a lot of adjustment for both players, AND would make us a one-line team. We are better WITH Bozak then we are without him, and any potential replacements for a Center for Phil will cost us a pretty penny in UFA (Roy and Ribeiro, pretty much). I don't think it's very reasonable to expect the Leafs to trade for a C. It really doesn't give us many options.

If we let Bozak walk, then we take a step backwards next season. After missing the playoffs for so many years and then FINALLY making it this season (knock on wood), I don't think the fans, owners, managers, or players want to take a step backwards in the interest of frugality. Give Bozak some money on a short term deal and let's see what we have here.
Bozak scores garbage goals, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's all rebounds and nothing being created. In fact, everything he gets is generally Kessel or the defense. As far as being a one line team, how? We are one year, a shortened year at that, of Grabs outscoring Bozak, and of being better than Bozak every year of his career. And for playing 3rd line minutes, against far tougher competition, he still has only 3 goals less. It's been a bad season for him, no doubt, but signing Bozak to a contract he might never live up to? How does that work? As far as UFA, Ribs isn't getting 7m and Roy shouldn't even be a consideration. Weiss however should be. Literally a full step up on Bozak in every sense of the offensive word and just as good defensively. Again, if he wants to sign a short contract for 3.5m to see how he progresses to a longer, more money contract, sure. I just don't see how we miss a guy like Bozak who adds nothing to the offense of Kessel/Lupul/JVR, when Kessel himself could center those two, since him and Lupul act like center/winger anyway. That would still leave Kadri with Kulemin and someone else, and Grabs to either be bought out or be the 2nd most overpaid third liner in Canada. Worried about faceoffs?Gordon. Worried about chemistry? Put Lupul back there. What we should be looking to spend that money on is a rh dman.

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04-19-2013, 05:49 PM
  #459
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I could see Winnipeg giving him that money. He has Chevy/Noel player written over him and would finally give Kane a decent 2-way C.

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04-19-2013, 05:56 PM
  #460
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Lol at the people saying he wont get paid. He will get paid no doubt

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04-19-2013, 05:57 PM
  #461
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I could see Winnipeg giving him that money. He has Chevy/Noel player written over him and would finally give Kane a decent 2-way C.
Except that he already has a better and younger version of Bozak in Little.

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04-19-2013, 06:04 PM
  #462
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Bozak scores garbage goals, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it's all rebounds and nothing being created. In fact, everything he gets is generally Kessel or the defense. As far as being a one line team, how? We are one year, a shortened year at that, of Grabs outscoring Bozak, and of being better than Bozak every year of his career. And for playing 3rd line minutes, against far tougher competition, he still has only 3 goals less. It's been a bad season for him, no doubt, but signing Bozak to a contract he might never live up to? How does that work? As far as UFA, Ribs isn't getting 7m and Roy shouldn't even be a consideration. Weiss however should be. Literally a full step up on Bozak in every sense of the offensive word and just as good defensively. Again, if he wants to sign a short contract for 3.5m to see how he progresses to a longer, more money contract, sure. I just don't see how we miss a guy like Bozak who adds nothing to the offense of Kessel/Lupul/JVR, when Kessel himself could center those two, since him and Lupul act like center/winger anyway. That would still leave Kadri with Kulemin and someone else, and Grabs to either be bought out or be the 2nd most overpaid third liner in Canada. Worried about faceoffs?Gordon. Worried about chemistry? Put Lupul back there. What we should be looking to spend that money on is a rh dman.
If you put Kadri with Kessel, then yea I think we are a one-line team. Lupes - Kadri - Kessel, and then what? JVR and...what? Grabovski isn't getting it done. The days of Mac - Grabo - Kule being a legitimate scoring threat are gone, and unless they miraculously rediscover their offensive games, opposing teams would only have one line to worry about. This year we are successful because we are getting offence out of both Kessel's line and Kadri's.


And again, so many detractors make it sound like Bozak is a black-hole of offence being carried by his linemates. It's downright false. Bozak does fine on the cycle game, and he's good on the breakout too. He's not a premier offensive player, but he's far from a scrub. He has decent offensive instincts (getting those garbage goals you mentioned), and he's got decent speed to keep pace with Kessel. I'm not saying that he's IRREPLACEABLE long-term, but for the options we have, he's not a bad choice.

Weiss could be a good acquisition, I agree with you on that one. I forgot about him as a UFA, so my bad.

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04-19-2013, 06:06 PM
  #463
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Except that he already has a better and younger version of Bozak in Little.

Yea, Little's contract could be an interesting comparison here. He's a RFA and usually RFA's don't break bank, but we'll see what Winnipeg gets him. I would say Little and Bozak are very comparable.

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04-19-2013, 06:11 PM
  #464
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Yea, Little's contract could be an interesting comparison here. He's a RFA and usually RFA's don't break bank, but we'll see what Winnipeg gets him. I would say Little and Bozak are very comparable.
Little probably would be a good comparison, but he is better and will be paid like it. Even if Win decided Bozak is in their future, he'll be a 2nd line center there, not 1st, and still won't get 5m even if Little got 5.5, which he won't.

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04-19-2013, 06:46 PM
  #465
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Bozak is going to pull a Dom Moore in Toronto. he forms some chemistry with his linemates they asks for way too much, only to hit UFA and not get even close to what he's asking for, then sign with a team and dissappear for a few years.

Moore eventually found a good fit in TB, but as a 3rd line C.

Bozak is worth no more than 3.5mil (and that's pushing it). If he asks for more we target Riberio or someone else this summer.
Do you honestly believe, given the other centres on this team, and Phil Kessel as a winger, that this team is going to be better off with Mike Ribeiro over Tyler Bozak?

Last I checked, the Leafs had a top 5 offence, and a top line which is over a goal per game amongst the forwards alone. They don't need to score more, they need to keep the puck out of their own end. Mike Ribeiro isn't going to do that, and putting Nazem Kadri on that line is basically ensuring that Kadri takes a massive step back, while writing Kessel's ticket out of town.

Simple fact is, the Leafs have **** up once again in their inability to get a centre that they should want on their #1 line playing with Kessel. Bozak is really our best, and probably only option, while the failure to lock him up prior to the deadline means we will be at the mercy of fair market value when it comes to paying him.


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04-19-2013, 06:50 PM
  #466
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Do you honestly believe, given the other centres on this team, and Phil Kessel as a winger, that this team is going to be better off with Mike Ribeiro over Tyler Bozak?

Last I checked, the Leafs had a top 5 offence, and a top line which is over a goal per game amongst the forwards alone. They don't need to score more, they need to keep the puck out of their own end.
Which is why we need to spend that kind of money on a dman. We have Phaneuf and then it drops in a hurry, and then drops again. Ribeiro with no upgrade on defense at worst is now, and that doesn't change because of a center. We just score more, so Bozak isn't helping that either

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04-19-2013, 06:55 PM
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Which is why we need to spend that kind of money on a dman. We have Phaneuf and then it drops in a hurry, and then drops again. Ribeiro with no upgrade on defense at worst is now, and that doesn't change because of a center. We just score more, so Bozak isn't helping that either
Yup, move Grabovski, and pick up a dman... that's not really material to the conversation of who's our #1C. The $4-6m is going to need to be spent at that position, whether it's Bozak, Grabovski, or other.

The team isn't going to score substantially more with Ribs at centre over Bozak. They will likely get scored on substantially less with Bozak at centre over ribs.

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04-19-2013, 06:59 PM
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Yup, move Grabovski, and pick up a dman... that's not really material to the conversation of who's our #1C. The $4-6m is going to need to be spent at that position, whether it's Bozak, Grabovski, or other.

The team isn't going to score substantially more with Ribs at centre over Bozak. They will likely get scored on substantially less with Bozak at centre over ribs.
How much is substantial? 10 points? Ribs will put up that over Bozak. How much does Bozak stop? Realistically? 4-5 goals a year?

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04-19-2013, 07:01 PM
  #469
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How much is substantial? 10 points? Ribs will put up that over Bozak. How much does Bozak stop? Realistically? 4-5 goals a year?
You might get 10 more goals out of the line with Ribs over Bozak... but you can expect to allow probably double that. Kessel's line has always been incredibly weak when it comes to offensive zone time of possession. Mike Ribeiro would be a massive downgrade to that line's weakest point. He's a pure open ice player, much like Kessel, and we've got enough of those. Same reason Kadri has no business being anywhere near Kessel's line.

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04-19-2013, 07:14 PM
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You might get 10 more goals out of the line with Ribs over Bozak... but you can expect to allow probably double that. Kessel's line has always been incredibly weak when it comes to offensive zone time of possession. Mike Ribeiro would be a massive downgrade to that line's weakest point.
No he wouldn't. At worst he's better in the ozone in possession because he can create room with his playmaking skills. Bozak isn't that great at possession and his play routinely shows it. If Bozak is so good defensively, why, at home, is he not facing Tavares line last night, or other top teams lines on a regular basis. You'd think we'd need him to cut down all these teams scoring against us.

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04-19-2013, 07:19 PM
  #471
seanlinden
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No he wouldn't. At worst he's better in the ozone in possession because he can create room with his playmaking skills. Bozak isn't that great at possession and his play routinely shows it. If Bozak is so good defensively, why, at home, is he not facing Tavares line last night, or other top teams lines on a regular basis. You'd think we'd need him to cut down all these teams scoring against us.
Have you ever seen Ribeiro play???

Kessel needs somebody who's going to do the dirty work in the offensive zone, along the boards, outmuscling opponents, not a floater who's going to try to find a seam and make a good pass. With Kessel as one of the wingers, that pass is never going to come.

Bozak doesn't take the top defensive matchups because he plays with Kessel... didn't think that one needed to be explained.

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04-19-2013, 07:32 PM
  #472
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Have you ever seen Ribeiro play???

Kessel needs somebody who's going to do the dirty work in the offensive zone, along the boards, outmuscling opponents, not a floater who's going to try to find a seam and make a good pass. With Kessel as one of the wingers, that pass is never going to come.

Bozak doesn't take the top defensive matchups because he plays with Kessel... didn't think that one needed to be explained.
I hate when people say things like this. It's purely defensive and adds nothing. But, in case you are wondering, or maybe misunderstanding what I said, he is terrible defensively, if that clears it up. If you are saying that because of my statement about his playmaking, then you are wrong. His playmaking creates room for him and the players he passes to. As far as Bozak doing all that, he really doesn't. He floats in, rarely hits the guy, and surely doesn't make passes much to Kessel. Almost always to the front of the net, which isn't where Kessel goes, or to the defense, which makes the pass to kessel on the halfboards. Unless you are saying that Bozak is indeed a playmaker and it's just that Kessel and Lupul last year were only burying each others passes, then I'm confused.

I know Bozak doesn't take the top matchups, but I wasn't sure why you keep suggesting Bozak is going to stop 20 goals a year otherwise with his great defense and possession skills staying in the other teams end all night against third line players who don't score much anyway. I mean, Wash doesn't give up that much with Ribs centering a line and neither did Dallas

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04-19-2013, 07:39 PM
  #473
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Teeder9 View Post
I hate when people say things like this. It's purely defensive and adds nothing. But, in case you are wondering, or maybe misunderstanding what I said, he is terrible defensively, if that clears it up. If you are saying that because of my statement about his playmaking, then you are wrong. His playmaking creates room for him and the players he passes to. As far as Bozak doing all that, he really doesn't. He floats in, rarely hits the guy, and surely doesn't make passes much to Kessel. Almost always to the front of the net, which isn't where Kessel goes, or to the defense, which makes the pass to kessel on the halfboards. Unless you are saying that Bozak is indeed a playmaker and it's just that Kessel and Lupul last year were only burying each others passes, then I'm confused.

I know Bozak doesn't take the top matchups, but I wasn't sure why you keep suggesting Bozak is going to stop 20 goals a year otherwise with his great defense and possession skills staying in the other teams end all night against third line players who don't score much anyway. I mean, Wash doesn't give up that much with Ribs centering a line and neither did Dallas
It's a legitimate question. When you're calling Ribeiro a better linemate for Kessel than Bozak, it's either because you haven't watched Ribeiro, haven't watched Bozak, or have some other issues comprehending reality.

Creating room for scoring chances is all well and good, but the ability to create room is entirely dependent on the ability to maintain puck posession in the offensive zone, when a defenceman is trying to separate you from that puck.

Hitting has nothing to do with this, it's about one's ability to take a hit, and stay on your feet, with posession of the puck. Bozak is miles ahead of Ribeiro in that regard, and it's already the weak link of that line.

Bozak's going to stop 20 goals a year versus Ribeiro because a Kessel line with him on it is going to spend a lot longer in the offensive zone, and unless Vesa Toskala is in net, the other team cannot score from there. Add in his value as a PK centreman, and 20 goals difference is easy.

Take a look at the wingers that Ribs has had in Dallas & Washington... nobody as 1-dimensional and useless in the corners as Kessel, and over the last few years, less time in a situation where he faces the top defensive matchups. Building a team isn't about putting together guys who put up points elsewhere and hoping that you get lucky unless you're JFJ. It's about putting players together who can be reasonably expected to succeed.


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Old
04-19-2013, 07:47 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
It's a legitimate question. When you're calling Ribeiro a better linemate for Kessel than Bozak, it's either because you haven't watched Ribeiro, haven't watched Bozak, or have some other issues comprehending reality.

Creating room for scoring chances is all well and good, but the ability to create room is entirely dependent on the ability to maintain puck posession in the offensive zone, when a defenceman is trying to separate you from that puck.

Hitting has nothing to do with this, it's about one's ability to take a hit, and stay on your feet, with posession of the puck. Bozak is miles ahead of Ribeiro in that regard, and it's already the weak link of that line.

Bozak's going to stop 20 goals a year versus Ribeiro because a Kessel line with him on it is going to spend a lot longer in the offensive zone, and unless Vesa Toskala is in net, the other team cannot score from there.

Take a look at the wingers that Ribs has had in Dallas & Washington... nobody as 1-dimensional and useless in the corners as Kessel.
But I didn't call Ribeiro a better linemate than Bozak. I said Ribeiro would score more than Bozak because he is a better offensive player. By a clear and definitive margin I might add. As far as all my other posts on this subject, I have been mentioning Weiss as a better linemate all along, and I don't even talk about Roy. If you want to argue Weiss with me, lets have it. I'll start. Better than Bozak at everything you mention him being good at, except faceoffs, which we can sign Gordon for. His injury is nothing to talk about since he had the exact same surgury on the other wrist years earlier and it hasn't been a problem. At most 6m per over 5 years for an overall upgrade with captain/ass.Captain character. Now you.

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04-19-2013, 07:54 PM
  #475
seanlinden
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But I didn't call Ribeiro a better linemate than Bozak. I said Ribeiro would score more than Bozak because he is a better offensive player. By a clear and definitive margin I might add. As far as all my other posts on this subject, I have been mentioning Weiss as a better linemate all along, and I don't even talk about Roy. If you want to argue Weiss with me, lets have it. I'll start. Better than Bozak at everything you mention him being good at, except faceoffs, which we can sign Gordon for. His injury is nothing to talk about since he had the exact same surgury on the other wrist years earlier and it hasn't been a problem. At most 6m per over 5 years for an overall upgrade with captain/ass.Captain character. Now you.
Ok...

So again, we're talking about building a team here... and the centre for Phil Kessel. Bozak is a better choice for that than Ribeiro, meaning he's no longer material to the conversation for us.

As for Weiss, there's no reason to pay the additional cost on him. His skillset doesn't really add anything significant that Kessel's line is weak on, but isn't as strong on the draw. For the PK, sure you could sign a guy like Gordon, but that means a) committing the healthy 3rd line C position to McClement, b) Having to commit a roster spot to a faceoff specialist (Caryle seemed highly interested in doing that with Steckel), C) Kessel's line (the weak one on posession) having to start without it, and D) hurting our ability to retain Kessel. Pass, quite easily, even if he does become available to us.

Like you say, spend the money on the blueline.

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