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Injury Talk 7.0: Price (knee/groin), Patches (shoulder), Pleks (groin), Prust (rib)

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Old
05-09-2013, 09:59 AM
  #601
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yet the small soft players who aren't injured and virtually ineffective. Because they aren't engaging physically which is a MUST to win in the play-offs.

You could also say by proxy that those bigger bodies got injured because they had to increase their level of physical play to compensate for the lack of physical involvement of players such as DD.
Pacioretty wasn't engaging physically, and is injured.

Gallagher and Boullion are among the most physical on the team AND are smurfs, yet both are healthy.

The only correlation I can find between the teams size and injury is Prust, who did have to overcompensate.

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05-09-2013, 09:59 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
We didn't engage physically in 2010. Chicago has never been overly physical, neither has Detroit. Seems to me that they've still consistently won. Unless you 100% guarantee our players will not come into contact with opposing players, there's not a chance you avoid injuries. Everyone gets hit at one point or another, it doesn't matter how big you or your team are, there are going to be injuries. Size does not equal less injuries. Part of what it does prevent is getting embarrassed like we did in game 3.
The key to success is having players that are willing to do what it takes. Obviously size doesn't matter if you play like Gallagher. You can be big and soft but still be able to maintain position in the offensive zone. If you're small and soft, you're going to be virtually ineffective. Which is why DD is a ****ing embarrassment.

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05-09-2013, 10:05 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The key to success is having players that are willing to do what it takes. Obviously size doesn't matter if you play like Gallagher. You can be big and soft but still be able to maintain position in the offensive zone. If you're small and soft, you're going to be virtually ineffective. Which is why DD is a ****ing embarrassment.
It's a real shame how he's played this year. Kinda looks like he's waiting for something to happen, taking a backseat. Just play hard and smart every shift and you've got a good team.

: Disappointed look you get from your Mother smilie

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05-09-2013, 10:05 AM
  #604
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Hopefully Bourque is just taking it easy, he's probably banged up too. God, why can't we ever catch a ****ing break?
lol Ottawa gave us their injuries curse.
feels bad man

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05-09-2013, 10:09 AM
  #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The key to success is having players that are willing to do what it takes. Obviously size doesn't matter if you play like Gallagher. You can be big and soft but still be able to maintain position in the offensive zone. If you're small and soft, you're going to be virtually ineffective. Which is why DD is a ****ing embarrassment.
I think that the summertime jettisoning of DD is the closest this board will ever come to consensus on a player. Monumental. Historical.

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05-09-2013, 10:09 AM
  #606
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05-09-2013, 10:10 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Yeah it's a pretty ridiculous argument. We had an even softer/smaller team in 2010 and got to the ECF with the only real injury (IIRC) being to Markov. There's no magic formula to avoiding injuries. A big part of getting to the Cup is staying healthy, and a lot of that has to do with sheer luck. Some years you have it, some years you don't.

But according to these boards, height and weight are the sole factors that determine how the Stanley Cup is awarded.
This. And this again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Yet the small soft players who aren't injured and virtually ineffective. Because they aren't engaging physically which is a MUST to win in the play-offs.

You could also say by proxy that those bigger bodies got injured because they had to increase their level of physical play to compensate for the lack of physical involvement of players such as DD.
Perhaps, this is a more sound argument than the simpleton "we're small therefore injured", which I tried to disprove previously.

DD needs to be better insulated or this is going to be a long 4 years.

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Originally Posted by Hannibal View Post
Pacioretty is soft.
Prust is injured because he had to bring the physical element alone all season long.
Price is bad luck.
Bourque has a past of concussion.

Don't try to fool yourself. The habs are a soft, perimeter team.
You haven't dispelled anything from my post. None of the guys I listed are small players, not even close. Your argument is that we're small and therefore vulnerable to injury, which is ridiculous on its own (luck is often a component with injuries as well).

So again I ask, how are Pacioretty, Eller, Bourque, White, Price, Prust, White considered small and vulnerable to injury? Coming back with "soft" isn't a justification for their injuries, if anything is detracts from your point since if you're soft you're avoiding physical contact at all costs.

These are big players who are injured. You cannot say that we are not built for the playoffs by cherry-picking injuries and brushing these ones off.

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05-09-2013, 10:20 AM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
As much as getting bigger is common sense, I'm really struggling to find the correlation between Pacioretty's injury history and team size, or what Gallagher and Desharnais have to do with why notable non-smurfs Price and Eller are out.

I get Prust, since he's forced to do too much, the rest seems desperate.
It's more complex than just injury to player A and his size. The opposition get less damage from the Habs as a team can dish out compared to what they do against our players. Naturally, one side gets worn down faster than the other. Furthermore, it's easier to target the guys that can push back since there are less of them. It's not uncommon to hear 'we have to hit them' -esque strategy when it comes to facing 'small' teams. Teams go in with more killer instinct.

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05-09-2013, 10:22 AM
  #609
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Carey's done for the series and his status is unclear if the Habs advance.
But he was faking it to get out of losing in OT

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05-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by ahabsfanfromtoronto View Post
all these injuries have me feeling
Players have to have huge courage and never give up but their fans bail at the first sign of trouble

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05-09-2013, 10:32 AM
  #611
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Players have to have huge courage and never give up but their fans bail at the first sign of trouble
Don't paint us all with the same brush!

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05-09-2013, 10:42 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
The key to success is having players that are willing to do what it takes. Obviously size doesn't matter if you play like Gallagher. You can be big and soft but still be able to maintain position in the offensive zone. If you're small and soft, you're going to be virtually ineffective. Which is why DD is a ****ing embarrassment.
DD's problem isn't being small or soft it's that he needs guys with size with him to create space. He had that last year and put up 60 points. This year he lost Cole(litterally and figuratively) and Pacioretty is a shell of himself right now, obviously not 100%.

If you're playing pro hockey at 5'6" and you crack the NHL, a land of giants, you are NOT soft. He may be small and may get knocked on his ass, but he definitely isn't soft.

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05-09-2013, 10:44 AM
  #613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
DD's problem isn't being small or soft it's that he needs guys with size with him to create space. He had that last year and put up 60 points. This year he lost Cole(litterally and figuratively) and Pacioretty is a shell of himself right now, obviously not 100%.

If you're playing pro hockey at 5'6" and you crack the NHL, a land of giants, you are NOT soft. He may be small and may get knocked on his ass, but he definitely isn't soft.
lol k. Doesn't win a puck battle all play-offs but he's not soft.

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05-09-2013, 10:45 AM
  #614
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Quote:
John Lu ‏@JohnLuTSNMtl 22 h

#Habs Therrien on Gionta: "He's got a lot of courage." Says when (Gionta) decided to have surgery, "The captain was crying in my arms."
Even though it sounds a bit ghey, I feel for the little guy, this had made me depressed.

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05-09-2013, 10:45 AM
  #615
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Size does matter.

All the small players are not like Martin St-Louis or Gallagher. A long season, or being hit merciless will suck up your energy big time and might hurt you badly. Of course, bigger players might be injured, but a team filled with too many smaller players, especially on D, will be affected in a long run. It's not just a matter of being injured. It,s also a matter of lacking juice. And opponents are not ennoyed or scared by being hit by big players.

All the Cup winners in recent years have bigger and heavier players throughout their line ups. You can find some smaller ones, but not as many as the Habs have right now, especially on D.


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05-09-2013, 11:00 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
lol k. Doesn't win a puck battle all play-offs but he's not soft.
I'm sure there are a lot of guys considered "tough" that lose puck battles to guys like DD. I'm sure Dd won some puck battles.

Puck battles are part of the game, but not the be all and end all, just like size. Prust is about our 10th biggest player and might be our best at puck battles. Plekanec is average sized and also one of our best. Tinordi is huge but only so so in puck battles(needs to fill out obviously, but proving a point here).


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05-09-2013, 11:09 AM
  #617
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The title is a bit misleading. Price is only guaranteed to be out for the first round...

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05-09-2013, 11:10 AM
  #618
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If you're playing pro hockey at 5'6" and you crack the NHL, a land of giants, you are NOT soft. He may be small and may get knocked on his ass, but he definitely isn't soft.
First....let's be honest here. League is a land of giants....but Montreal is a city of pygmees. So DD is feeling right at home and was TOTALLY fitting the Gainey-Gauthier way of playing hockey. And the kid got his chances 'cause because we abandoned the local players and had to save the face, hence a chance to DD. Who deserved it for sure. Who did great in his first big season. Who didn't really deserve that fat contract but got it anyway.

But I believe that the word you are looking for isn't soft....it's courageous and full of determination. But as far as initiating bodychecks, or being able to win 1 on 1 battles, or not being on his ass everytime there is some contacts, has to make him soft 'cause if not....what will? Who can we call soft anyway? The only guys that fits in the category are the ones who have all the unfortunate traits that DD is having. Thing is, they are usually taller than him, for sure. So what it says more about DD is just how courageous and how determined he was. Still soft though. And you do not win a Cup with a top 2 centerman like him.

At one point, I also thought that Ribeiro was too soft....that you don't win with him top 6 either. Yet...besides his faking, we do realize that Ribeiro protects the puck really well. Do take some beatings. And isn't always on his ass. But he has a size advantage. I mean, it's not DD's fault is he's that small....but it is what it is.

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05-09-2013, 11:15 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I'm sure there are a lot of guys considered "tough" that lose puck battles to guys like DD. I'mn sure Dd won some puck battles.

Puck battles are part of the game, but not the be all and end all, just like size. Prust is about our 10th biggest player and might be our best at puck battles. Plekanec is average sized and also one of our best. Tinordi is huge but only so so in puck battles(needs to fill out obviously, but proving a point here).
Let him be he has his scapegoat. Cause you...Guys like Ryder Moen and Pacioretty have been so much better.

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05-09-2013, 11:23 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
First....let's be honest here. League is a land of giants....but Montreal is a city of pygmees. So DD is feeling right at home and was TOTALLY fitting the Gainey-Gauthier way of playing hockey. And the kid got his chances 'cause because we abandoned the local players and had to save the face, hence a chance to DD. Who deserved it for sure. Who did great in his first big season. Who didn't really deserve that fat contract but got it anyway.

But I believe that the word you are looking for isn't soft....it's courageous and full of determination. But as far as initiating bodychecks, or being able to win 1 on 1 battles, or not being on his ass everytime there is some contacts, has to make him soft 'cause if not....what will? Who can we call soft anyway? The only guys that fits in the category are the ones who have all the unfortunate traits that DD is having. Thing is, they are usually taller than him, for sure. So what it says more about DD is just how courageous and how determined he was. Still soft though. And you do not win a Cup with a top 2 centerman like him.

At one point, I also thought that Ribeiro was too soft....that you don't win with him top 6 either. Yet...besides his faking, we do realize that Ribeiro protects the puck really well. Do take some beatings. And isn't always on his ass. But he has a size advantage. I mean, it's not DD's fault is he's that small....but it is what it is.
DD not winning a puck battle or hitting someone is the least of his worries. The man has lost all confidence or is injured. I don't give a **** if he hits someone or wins a puck battle as long as he's getting points.

You guys expect every small player to be this remarkable super human who beats 6'4 Dmen along the boards for the puck. Either was DD played better last game and I expect him to be even better tonight.

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05-09-2013, 11:56 AM
  #621
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The title is a bit misleading. Price is only guaranteed to be out for the first round...
Difference in translation. "Séries" in French means the playoffs, "series" in English refers to a single playoff round. I'll change it though.

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05-09-2013, 12:05 PM
  #622
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These are big players who are injured. You cannot say that we are not built for the playoffs by cherry-picking injuries and brushing these ones off.
I think that when people bring the "big" argument, they are not wishing to see Peter Popovic or Pierre Dagenais. Implications of the big argument is tough, willing to pay the price and so on.

The Prust injury is mostly because he felt he had to do everything since he was almost the only physical force we had. So yes....Prust's injury is directly related to how soft we are. Should have gotten some help from Moen, but Mr. Moen is a finesse player now. Then comes to concussions injuries which means that we surely don't have in mind a BIG player that has those injuries in the past. Big won't cut it. Nobody wants Latendresse back.

And people should stop bringing Chicago and Detroit as a reason why you don,t need toughness, grit and size. OF COURSE, give me 3 to 5 TOP-END talent in the league, and I could play with 20 5'4'' players. But since we are not going to finish bottom 3 every year or might not discover some Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lidstron in the late rounds....you can't count on that. If we look at every team lately that has won it....they were pretty heavy. And talented, I know.....and a great goalie on top of that. It takes more to make a winning team. Only big doesn'T cut it of course. But when people bring this trait....they bring it 'cause it does seem as it's missing....as we "might" have the goalie....and we "might" have the talent and some others that are coming though, realistically, we don't have it to be a cup contender just yet.

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05-09-2013, 12:09 PM
  #623
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As I mentioned earlier, Price is out for the rest of the 1st round with his status unclear if the Habs advance. Could be bad.

Five minutes before the game, we'll learn that Lars Eller is a last minute addition to the lineup.

Honestly though, him skating two days in a row is good news. Maybe a return later in the series if we get it there is possible.

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05-09-2013, 12:14 PM
  #624
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
First....let's be honest here. League is a land of giants....but Montreal is a city of pygmees. So DD is feeling right at home and was TOTALLY fitting the Gainey-Gauthier way of playing hockey. And the kid got his chances 'cause because we abandoned the local players and had to save the face, hence a chance to DD. Who deserved it for sure. Who did great in his first big season. Who didn't really deserve that fat contract but got it anyway.

But I believe that the word you are looking for isn't soft....it's courageous and full of determination. But as far as initiating bodychecks, or being able to win 1 on 1 battles, or not being on his ass everytime there is some contacts, has to make him soft 'cause if not....what will? Who can we call soft anyway? The only guys that fits in the category are the ones who have all the unfortunate traits that DD is having. Thing is, they are usually taller than him, for sure. So what it says more about DD is just how courageous and how determined he was. Still soft though. And you do not win a Cup with a top 2 centerman like him.

At one point, I also thought that Ribeiro was too soft....that you don't win with him top 6 either. Yet...besides his faking, we do realize that Ribeiro protects the puck really well. Do take some beatings. And isn't always on his ass. But he has a size advantage. I mean, it's not DD's fault is he's that small....but it is what it is.
Being soft means you don't have courage and determination.

A guy that goes into a corner with a bigger guy that will probably put him on his ass 1/3 times but still goes can't be called soft. The terms is massively overused in today's hockey it's not even funny. My definition of soft is a guy like Antropov or former Hab Kjell Dahlin who was scared of his shadow.

I agree you probably don't win a cup with DD as a top 2 but it's as much about not having dominant skills as being soft. Giroux is only a bit bigger but you could probably win with him, because his skill level is a couple notches above. DD is a 60 point guy in the right situation, Giroux 80-90.

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05-09-2013, 12:18 PM
  #625
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As I mentioned earlier, Price is out for the rest of the 1st round with his status unclear if the Habs advance. Could be bad.

Five minutes before the game, we'll learn that Lars Eller is a last minute addition to the lineup.

Honestly though, him skating two days in a row is good news. Maybe a return later in the series if we get it there is possible.
They are probably ramping up the physical activity to see if he has concussion symptoms. Best case scenario is probably 5-7 days.

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