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Crosby + Ovechkin vs. Forsberg + Jagr

View Poll Results: Which two?
Forsberg & Jagr 74 54.41%
Crosby & Ovechkin 62 45.59%
Voters: 136. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:05 PM
  #1
Fred Taylor
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Crosby + Ovechkin vs. Forsberg + Jagr

Which two would you rather have on your team in their primes?

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04-18-2013, 01:09 PM
  #2
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Pretty close... I have these players ranked as follows: 1. Jagr, 2. Ovi/Sid, 4. Forsberg. I'll let the pencil necked stats geeks decide for me.

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04-18-2013, 01:11 PM
  #3
Noah23
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Crosby and Ovechkin are made for each other.

They both play the game faster than everyone else in the league. One is the Apex of winger sniper in the game and other is the Apex of a play making center.

Jagr and Forsberg are great and all but seeing Crosby and Ovechkin on the same line would just be absurd.

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04-18-2013, 01:12 PM
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Very close. I'd rank: 1. Jagr, 2. Crosby, 3. Forsberg, 4. Ovechkin

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04-18-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
Very close. I'd rank: 1. Jagr, 2. Crosby, 3. Forsberg, 4. Ovechkin
What has Forsberg done to warrant him over Ovi...and what has Sid done that makes Forsberg slide in between him and Ovi? Just curious to hear your opinion, not calling you out.

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04-18-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
What has Forsberg done to warrant him over Ovi...and what has Sid done that makes Forsberg slide in between him and Ovi? Just curious to hear your opinion, not calling you out.
An insanely strong playoff run and cup would be my guess.

171 playoff points in 151 games.

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Old
04-18-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
What has Forsberg done to warrant him over Ovi...
Yeah I almost put 3/4 Forsberg/OV its really close. You could easily make a case for OV > Forsberg

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Originally Posted by BudMovin View Post
and what has Sid done that makes Forsberg slide in between him and Ovi? Just curious to hear your opinion, not calling you out.
wait, you think OV and Forsberg > than Crosby? Thanks for the laugh

Ended up choosing Crosby+OV in the poll for similar reasons that Noah23 mentioned. Both play at a very fast pace and would mesh well together. Crosby's great overall game would cover for a lot of OV's deficiencies

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04-18-2013, 01:24 PM
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BudMovin*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
Yeah I almost put 3/4 Forsberg/OV its really close. You could easily make a case for OV > Forsberg



wait, you think OV and Forsberg > than Crosby? Thanks for the laugh

Ended up choosing Crosby+OV in the poll for similar reasons that Noah23 mentioned. Both play at a very fast pace and would mesh well together. Crosby's great overall game would cover for a lot of OV's deficiencies
No, I think Crosby is better than Forsberg. I had him slated in a tie with Ovi. Crosby is more talented, but Ovi has produced more because he has been healthy.

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04-18-2013, 01:32 PM
  #9
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It's very close but I'd would take Jagr & Forsberg mainly because of Jagr. Jagr was unreal. At his prime years he has played on another level than both Crosby and Ovechkin. For example: give me Forsberg in season 98-99 centering to Jagr and ... I don't even know. Better not imagine. Add there Forsbergs play-off perfomance and here we go.

//btw. Does anyone know why I can't participate in polls? What do I need to do?

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04-18-2013, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tade View Post
It's very close but I'd would take Jagr & Forsberg mainly because of Jagr. Jagr was unreal. At his prime years he has played on another level than both Crosby and Ovechkin. For example: give me Forsberg in season 98-99 centering to Jagr and ... I don't even know. Better not imagine. Add there Forsbergs play-off perfomance and here we go.

//btw. Does anyone know why I can't participate in polls? What do I need to do?
get rid of rookie user status, you need to wait some time and get a few more posts

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04-18-2013, 04:25 PM
  #11
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Crosby/Ovechkin, even though I think Jagr is the best of the 4. Foppa be holding him back yo.

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04-18-2013, 04:59 PM
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Prime Jagr and Forsberg for sure. Both of them can create so much space for each other while also being able to make perfect passes to each other and also finish. It would be pretty nasty to think about.

Crosby and Ovi would be dirty as well, but I just imagine Jagr and Forsberg having better chemistry

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04-18-2013, 05:18 PM
  #13
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Not only are Crosby and Ovechkin the two best players of their generation but, as Noah23 pointed out, they're both perfect compliments to one another. Crosby is the best playmaker in the game and Ovechkin is the best goalscorer in the game. Even though Jagr is probably the best of the bunch (with a very slight edge over Crosby), I think Sid and OV would have insane chemistry.

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04-18-2013, 05:27 PM
  #14
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Jagr and Forsberg for me. Would just be magic on ice.

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04-18-2013, 05:46 PM
  #15
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Jagr and Forsberg and I really didn't have to think about it. Jagr and Crosby/OV aren't as close as some think. He's in a different tier than those two

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04-18-2013, 09:48 PM
  #16
Fred Taylor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman View Post
Not only are Crosby and Ovechkin the two best players of their generation but, as Noah23 pointed out, they're both perfect compliments to one another. Crosby is the best playmaker in the game and Ovechkin is the best goalscorer in the game. Even though Jagr is probably the best of the bunch (with a very slight edge over Crosby), I think Sid and OV would have insane chemistry.
Then why did you vote for Crosby?

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04-18-2013, 09:48 PM
  #17
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Close. Very close. But I just can't go against Jagr. With Ovechkin and Crosby I would have potentially one of the deadliest combos ever. But with Jagr Foppa I feel that there is more options since both of these players are cabable of lifting their own line so potentially I could have 2 great lines. (Not saying Ov cant do it himself, I just trust Forsberg or Jagr more on their own)

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04-18-2013, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Taylor View Post
Then why did you vote for Crosby?
I think he's trying to say Jagr is the best of the 4 but he'd take Crosby and Ovi over Jagr and Forsberg...

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Old
04-18-2013, 10:11 PM
  #19
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People are forgetting how good Jagr was.

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04-19-2013, 02:22 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingForsberg View Post
People are forgetting how good Jagr was.
Scratch that. People are forgetting how good Ovechkin was.

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04-19-2013, 02:25 AM
  #21
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Forsberg + Jagr.

That line would be sheer dominance, especially when it came to the postseason.

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04-19-2013, 03:22 AM
  #22
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I'm just going to point out the obvious by saying the OP says this is the "prime" player we're getting on our team. Ovechkin in his prime was the best player in the world (a level he may be reaching again). And Crosby I think is the best player of his generation. I know that Jagr was freakishly good, but was he ever the best player in the world? Because his career did overlap with Gretzky, Lemieux, and others...

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04-19-2013, 03:42 AM
  #23
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Ovechkin is like a bigger Forsberg who plays wing.
Crosby is like a smaller Jagr who plays center.

I'd rather have the toughness at center.

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04-19-2013, 04:56 AM
  #24
TAnnala
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Ovechkin is like a bigger Forsberg who plays wing.
Crosby is like a smaller Jagr who plays center.

I'd rather have the toughness at center.
Well that was weird comparison..

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04-19-2013, 07:26 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I'm just going to point out the obvious by saying the OP says this is the "prime" player we're getting on our team. Ovechkin in his prime was the best player in the world (a level he may be reaching again). And Crosby I think is the best player of his generation. I know that Jagr was freakishly good, but was he ever the best player in the world? Because his career did overlap with Gretzky, Lemieux, and others...
If you check out the Jagr vs Crosby Polls' thread here, you would see a whole slew of quotes from experts, coaches and players about Jagr in his prime stating that he was the best player in the NHL and he was it for a good 7 years.

Gretzky was past his prime and older and once Lemieux retired, Jagr was the best player in the NHL.

Here are things that have been said about Jagr:

Quote:
Quotations and Perspective:


Jon Scher, SI, 1992:

Quote:

Unlike Gretzky, Lemieux will have the opportunity to school his own successor. He has seen the future of hockey, and its first name, Jaromir, is an anagram for Mario Jr. Jagr, a 20-year-old from Czechoslovakia who joined the Penguins in 1990, scored 32 goals this season, but he didn't truly open up his bag of tricks until Lemieux was injured in the second game of the Patrick Division finals against the Rangers. Since then, he has scored fabulous goal after fabulous goal. Just watching him carry the puck can be a thrill. In Game 1 of the finals he faked and juked his way past three Blackhawks before calmly delivering a backhand shot that tied the score 4-4 late in the third period. "Inexcusable," fumed Keenan. "The greatest goal I've ever seen," gushed Lemieux.

E.M. Swift, SI, 1992:

Quote:
Screaming down the right wing, his long dark hair flopping behind his helmet, the lefthanded-shooting Jagr would time and again beat both defensemen like a pair of rented mules.

"He's a different type of player than the league has seen in a long time," says Scotty Bowman, who coached the Penguins last season and is now the team's director of player development and recruitment. "He has a lot of Frank Mahovlich in him. His skating style and strength make him almost impossible to stop one-on-one. A lot of big guys play with their sticks tight to their bodies and don't use that reach to their advantage like Jaromir does."

...

In style, though, Jagr is something much different from Lemieux. "When Mario gets the puck, he's always thinking, Where can I put it?" says Bowman. "He'll pass the puck off and get himself in a better situation to score than he was in. When Jaromir gets the puck, he's always thinking, Where can I go with it? He reminds me of Maurice Richard in that way. They both played the off-wing, and both had so many moves I don't think either knew which moves they were going to do until they did them. Totally unpredictable."

Gerry Callahan, SI, 1995:

Quote:

"They've got different styles, but Jagr does remind you of Mario in a lot of ways," says Penguin wing Kevin Stevens, who is sidelined with a fractured left ankle. "He's got the same kind of presence on the ice."

"When you're sitting on the bench, it's just like it was with Mario," says Cullen. "You watch. You can't help. You know Yaggs can get the puck and just take over the game. You don't want to miss it."

Jagr might be, among other things, the best one-armed player in the game today. The trend in the NHL toward more clutching and grabbing may slow down some slick-skating Europeans, but not Jagr, who is 6'2" and 208 pounds. He actually seems to enjoy the challenge of handling the puck while carrying a couple of passengers. "He should practice with a 100-pound dummy strapped to his back," says Penguin center Shawn McEachern, "because that's the way he has to play in the games."

Johnston has increased Jagr's ice time this season by putting him on the first power-play unit and allowing him to kill penalties. According to the coach, people are missing something when they attribute all of Jagr's success to his size and natural abilities. There is a pretty good mind under all that hair, says Johnston.

"He knows the game better than anyone on the team," says the coach. "He's very smart out there. He knows the little things, things you can't teach. He knows how to play the angles and how to protect the puck. You know where he got that, don't you?"

From his brilliant coaches on the Penguins?

"From Mario."


Michael Farber, SI, 1996:

Quote:
Of course the NHL could invent other categories for Jagr, besides best-dressed. Best one-on-one player: Jagr. There are faster forwards who might embarrass a defenseman with their speed, but no one plays one-on-one in traffic the way he does. Best combination of skill and strength: Jagr again. The 6'2", 215-pound Czech is the first man to combine the traditional European attributes of slickness, nimble feet and goal scorer's hands with lower-body strength, allowing him to fend off checks and protect the puck. "He's a gorilla, strong as a horse," Penguins coach Ed Johnston says, offering his own vision of Jagr as a crossbreed. "I don't know anybody who's stronger on his skates."

Michael Farber, SI, 1999:
Quote:
Last month Chicago Blackhawks assistant coach Denis Savard proclaimed Jagr "the best player in the game by a million miles," as if the subject were as closed as a team meeting.

...

"Jaromir should get a cut of every contract of everyone who plays with him before signing a new deal because half the money they're getting is due to him," Constantine says, despite his occasional differences with his star. "He makes it tricky for this organization. We have to ask ourselves how good the guy is. Is he good because he plays with Jagr? Not taking anything anyway from Marty Straka, who's a helluva player, but none of the guys Jaromir plays with have a time-tested history of being major talents." There is no one riding shotgun for Jagr the way Joe Sakic does for Forsberg, John LeClair does for Lindros or Selanne does for Kariya. Pittsburgh has several forwards with a clue, but it also has more extras than there were in Titanic.

...

"There are probably four ways to play Jagr, all of them wrong," Montreal assistant coach Dave King says. "He's the toughest player in hockey to devise a game plan against."

Michael Farber, SI, 2000:

Quote:
With 32 goals and 39 assists in 39 games through Sunday, Jagr was close to a 150-point pace and was leading the league in both categories, something not achieved outright since Wayne Gretzky did it 13 years ago. Night after night Jagr finds not only open ice but also the inherent joy of his sport. He dances and dazzles, getting seven points against the hapless New York Islanders in one game, derailing the powerful Detroit Red Wings with a goal and an assist in the next, and, in the match after that, twisting New Jersey Devils checker Claude Lemieux into a pretzel by putting the puck through Lemieux's legs at the Penguins' blue line and creating a three-on-two. Jagr, with sturdy haunches that make him all but impossible to bump off the puck, puts on That '80s Show for almost 82 games a season. He's setting hockey back more than 10 years.

"The game in the 1980s was played with the puck," Toronto Maple Leafs goalie Glenn Healy says. "In the '90s it became a game of often willingly losing possession, of dumping the puck in and moving the battle to other areas, such as behind the net and in the corners. Jagr is an '80s player because he holds on to the puck and tries to make plays. He won't give it up until there is absolutely no other play, which isn't often, because he has the ability to make something out of nothing, even a one-on-three. As a goalie you're always aware of Jagr's presence on the ice."


Jagr's scoring rampage in an era of constipated hockey has ended debate about who is the NHL's best player. "With no disrespect to the other guys," says New Jersey defenseman Ken Daneyko, a 15-year veteran, "you've got [Eric] Lindros, [Paul] Kariya, [Teemu] Selanne and [Peter] Forsberg here, and Jagr head and shoulders above them, up there." That assessment was implicitly endorsed by Gretzky last April when he blessed Jagr with a private word during the Great One's retirement ceremony. "Maybe that's why I play good right now," Jagr said last week, his face crinkling in merriment as he sat at his locker. "I don't want to make Wayne a liar."

Kostya Kennedy, SI, 2000:
Quote:
When SI asked NHL coaches in September, "Who is the best all-around player in the world?" 19 of the 26 respondents named Penguins right wing Jaromir Jagr. The other seven coaches fell into one of those hard-to-figure minorities, like the one dentist in five who does not recommend sugarless gum for his patients who chew gum.

Michael Farber, SI, 2006:
Quote:
You can rhapsodize about the casual excellence of the Detroit Red Wings or the explosiveness of the Ottawa Senators, but the ideal jumping-off point for the 2006 NHL playoffs, and there is just no getting around it, figuratively and often literally, is Jaromir Jagr's booty. His derriere is large enough to cause a lunar eclipse, J. Lo-esque in its amplitude and wondrously utilitarian. When he is parked at the right half boards on the power play, Jagr can turn his formidable backside--"You can hang a license plate off it," New York Rangers coach Tom Renney marvels--and protect the puck for five, 15 or however many seconds he chooses until he spots a vacant passing lane or identifies a moment when he can easily wheel to the net. His rhythm. His whim. The game and, to some extent, the playoffs proceed at the discretion of a 6'3", 245-pound right wing with impossibly thick haunches, a player who is the NHL's top scorer since 1990 and whom New Jersey Devils goaltender Martin Brodeur calls the best he has ever faced.


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