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Rumors & Proposals Thread Vol. 15 | Oilers Pick 7th OV

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Old
04-21-2013, 12:50 PM
  #326
tv14
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If I'm MacT, here is what I do. I sign Horton, Bickell and Stalberg. Trade Hemsky (add if need be) for a top-4 dman and trade for/sign another dman. Dump Smyth and Belanger by whatever means possible.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Horton
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Stalberg
Bickell-Smithson-Brown
Hartikainen/Lander/whoever

Smid-Petry
J Schultz-XXX
N Schultz-XXX

Looks decent to me. Balanced line-up, as any of the third liners, MPS/Horcoff/Stalberg are the type of players that can move up/down to anywhere in the line-up and still be adequate, which is great if the lines need to be shaken up for a spark or for more balance.


Last edited by tv14: 04-21-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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04-21-2013, 02:10 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by fuswald View Post
Seems to me people are wrongly placing so much blame on the bottom 6 forwards on this team and the defense.

Early in the season we lost games by the slimmest margin most of the time. We needed a one goal for or against differential.

As the year wore on we started to win games big against some teams and loose big against others.
When we lost our top players were held pointless or close and bled goals against.
When we won those same players destroyed the opposition.
Closer to the end of the year more and more teams figured out our top lines and killed us.

Sems to me our problem is the top 6.

Way back when we ruled the league Sather would put out two lines of two great players and one very tough player until the the other team had fear. This was enough to keep the games close or even slightly to our advantage. Then would slip a third good player in and rule. It didn't matter how good or bad the defense or goaltending was (and let me tell you it sucked bad some nights Mr. Lowe and Mr. Fehr)

Now this may not work exactly anymore but I think we need a bit of this.
Maybe we don't need a second line awesome huge centre for the Hall ..... Yak line just someone very tough to play against and pretty good. (fast and a good face off guy would be nice)
Maybe we don't need an awesome winger for Nuge and Eberle line just someone very tough to play against and pretty good. (fast would be nice). Look how good they played with even Paajarvi who does have the skill to do this but is a softie to play against.

Let the bottom 6 and defense just be good enough to hold there own (and be tough, very tough)

People feared Gretzky Kurri Semenko for the first period (except Calgary). And we still scored some goals.
I'm going to politely disagree, although there is statistical proof to show that Hemsky/Gagner/Yakupov really struggled defensively this year. Both Hemsky and Yakupov would fall in the 40-50 point range in a pro-rated season, which isn't good enough for top six in many people's minds.

When you have guys in your bottom six who are hardly even NHLers (Petrell, Brown, Smithson, Smyth, Jones (this year), then you aren't going to win games. Too much leaning on that top six to get it done every single night. You need support. St. Louis has a 3rd line with guys all getting 40+ points, and I'm not saying that should be us, but I'm saying those top six guys need some relief. Paajarvi and Horcoff only put up about 30-35 points each, and then the rest are lucky to get 20. If one of the kids stumbles (which, being kids, is totally expected once and a while), then they need others to be able to score. But, the forwards aren't as concerning as the D.

This is our D:
Justin Schultz-third pairing D, future top four/top two D-man, rushed into a top pairing role because we had no one better, struggled defensively down the stretch
Ladislav Smid-Awesome, dependable
Jeff Petry-really stepped up his game, still makes some mistakes, physical though and had a good year
Nick Schultz-not physical, paid like a top four, plays like a bottom pair
Ryan Whitney-sucks defensively. Is applauded because he can pass, and because he can chip into the odd goal when he pinches in.
Corey Potter-kind of useless other than a big shot and size
Mark Fistric-big hitter, defensive but has lapses, offensively terrible
Theo Peckham-physical, defensive lapses

Smid, Petry are the only top four d-men in the group.
Justin Schultz is a bottom pairing guy at this second, but could easily be a top four if he had a more dependable guy beside him.
Everyone else is a bottom pairing or non NHLer

In the new NHL, where defense is key, how do you think we can win with just 2-3 NHL capable d-men?

I think if Nuge comes back to form after surgery and if Yak takes another step, then we are probably a 9th, 10th or 11th place team strictly from offense. If you shore the D up and retool the bottom six (adding a guy who plays on third line but can bump up to the top six if necessary, maybe a 40 point guy) then you make the playoffs.

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Old
04-21-2013, 02:14 PM
  #328
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Typical HFOil overreaction. Jeez. The kid will be back by late Oct and will be better for it.

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04-21-2013, 02:47 PM
  #329
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Typical HFOil overreaction. Jeez. The kid will be back by late Oct and will be better for it.
these HFOil reactions are becoming almost unbearable. When did oilfans become such cynical whiners, its embarrassing.
Im glad there are still fans posting with common sense and basic rational thought.

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Old
04-21-2013, 02:53 PM
  #330
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What I think is funny (and scary), is we are having good debates right now on whether or not we need to improve the forwards or if we need to improve the D.

Meanwhile, management tried to move good assets for a goalie

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04-21-2013, 03:03 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by MettleOiler View Post
these HFOil reactions are becoming almost unbearable. When did oilfans become such cynical whiners, its embarrassing.
Im glad there are still fans posting with common sense and basic rational thought.
Fans are frustrated beyond words. The players and organization cannot do anything correct in the eyes of many here. At this point, winning is the only cure. Fans have heard enough rhetoric. The fanbase will come back around with some winning. Having young talent is a roller coaster ride. They'll be fine though, if we can be patient enough. I hope to Hell, MacT is patient enough with the kids. The fanbase is tapped out on patience, however.

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04-21-2013, 03:04 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
If I'm MacT, here is what I do. I sign Horton, Bickell and Stalberg. Trade Hemsky (add if need be) for a top-4 dman and trade for/sign another dman. Dump Smyth and Belanger by whatever means possible.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Yakupov-Gagner-Horton
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Stalberg
Bickell-Smithson-Brown
Hartikainen/Lander/whoever

Smid-Petry
J Schultz-XXX
N Schultz-XXX

Looks decent to me. Balanced line-up, as any of the third liners, MPS/Horcoff/Stalberg are the type of players that can move up/down to anywhere in the line-up and still be adequate, which is great if the lines need to be shaken up for a spark or for more balance.
I don't agree with Bickell as a 4th liner, he is quite a bit beyond a 4th liner. If we had all 3, Paajarvi is out of a job, period.

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Old
04-21-2013, 03:19 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
What I think is funny (and scary), is we are having good debates right now on whether or not we need to improve the forwards or if we need to improve the D.

Meanwhile, management tried to move good assets for a goalie
Well the roster has more holes than Swiss cheese so there are multiple areas to address.

Dubnyk/Khabi in net has looked like the least troubling area this season but obviously they need someone beyond this year and Khabi isn't it.

Unless they are going to go with Danis next season as a backup for Dubnyk... they do need to make an acquisition to play 20-30 games in net.. which is an important area as well. An injury of any kind to Dubnyk and this team quickly finds itself in a deep hole in that area as well.

I agree "right now" the forwards and dmen look to be the main areas to address but there are no areas of strength on this team beyond the core players so I don't begrudge any moves to strengthen the team in any and all areas going forward.

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04-21-2013, 03:31 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Well the roster has more holes than Swiss cheese so there are multiple areas to address.

Dubnyk/Khabi in net has looked like the least troubling area this season but obviously they need someone beyond this year and Khabi isn't it.

Unless they are going to go with Danis next season as a backup for Dubnyk... they do need to make an acquisition to play 20-30 games in net.. which is an important area as well. An injury of any kind to Dubnyk and this team quickly finds itself in a deep hole in that area as well.

I agree "right now" the forwards and dmen look to be the main areas to address but there are no areas of strength on this team beyond the core players so I don't begrudge any moves to strengthen the team in any and all areas going forward.
Instead of trading assets for a goalie though, couldn't you just go after Khudobin in free agency as a UFA? Or Ericsson from Europe? Thomas Greiss, or even Ray Emery?

I know the outlandish idea is Tim Thomas, and personally I'd be iffy on it, but talent wise it'd be interesting.

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04-21-2013, 04:45 PM
  #335
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You have to think that if the Oilers get news that Nuge is out until Mid-November, that a Gagner trade becomes less likely, even if we draft Barkov or Monahan. I would say the only way he gets moved in that situation is if he's a part of a deal for bigger, developed 2c.

Starting the first month and a half with Horcoff, Monahan and Lander as our top 3c? I hear Aaron Ekblad is looking good for Barrie in the playoffs right now...

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04-21-2013, 05:07 PM
  #336
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You have to think that if the Oilers get news that Nuge is out until Mid-November, that a Gagner trade becomes less likely, even if we draft Barkov or Monahan. I would say the only way he gets moved in that situation is if he's a part of a deal for bigger, developed 2c.

Starting the first month and a half with Horcoff, Monahan and Lander as our top 3c? I hear Aaron Ekblad is looking good for Barrie in the playoffs right now...
Ekblad is looking awesome in the playoffs..... I know with Nuge going down our center depth looks iffy but if MacT doesn't see Gags as a piece going forward, trade him for a piece that you need. Make due for a month of the season with weakened center depth. If we lost Gags in the first game next year we would have to find a way.

I dislike changing long term plans to fix short term problems/concerns. If I was MacT, the Nuge injury wouldn't stop me from trading Gags for say a top 4 dman

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04-21-2013, 05:16 PM
  #337
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Is Smithson really worth keeping? To me he seems like a player who fits in the small market defensive teams like Phoenix and Nashville and that's about it. I wouldn't mind him as one of the extra forwards that plays 10-20 games a year but not on the 4th line regularly. Same with Petrell. I'm a big fan of his but he's probably a better fit as a guy who jumps in every once in a while. I think the 3rd and 4th lines need to be gutted aside from Mike Brown basically.

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Old
04-21-2013, 05:21 PM
  #338
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Is Smithson really worth keeping? To me he seems like a player who fits in the small market defensive teams like Phoenix and Nashville and that's about it. I wouldn't mind him as one of the extra forwards that plays 10-20 games a year but not on the 4th line regularly. Same with Petrell. I'm a big fan of his but he's probably a better fit as a guy who jumps in every once in a while. I think the 3rd and 4th lines need to be gutted aside from Mike Brown basically.
MacT needs to jettison as many UFA's as possible. He basically needs to re-shape the line-up from top to bottom and that means that guys like Whitney, Smithson, Jones, Petrell... you let them all go and you work your ass off in the summer to acquire superior replacements. That's not an easy proposition but that's the reality of the Oilers' situation right now. They have the skilled players but the players around them aren't good enough and need to be replaced.


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Old
04-21-2013, 05:30 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by notloilersfan View Post
You have to think that if the Oilers get news that Nuge is out until Mid-November, that a Gagner trade becomes less likely, even if we draft Barkov or Monahan. I would say the only way he gets moved in that situation is if he's a part of a deal for bigger, developed 2c.

Starting the first month and a half with Horcoff, Monahan and Lander as our top 3c? I hear Aaron Ekblad is looking good for Barrie in the playoffs right now...
...and that McDavid kid is ripping it up at the under 18s as well.

So much to be optimistic about and look forward to.

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04-21-2013, 05:39 PM
  #340
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In my opinion, Tambellini screwed up the rebuild. He didn't add the right pieces at the right time. Our "rebuild" is more along the lines of a perpetual Florida Panthers/Columbus Blue Jackets (before this year) style of rebuild because of that. It's going to take the Oilers a few more years to rebound from his ineptness.

It's easy to draft first overall, but that's all Tambellini really ever did.

I wish MacT luck. Mr. Dithers put him in a heck of a position.

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04-21-2013, 06:19 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Paralyzer008 View Post
What I think is funny (and scary), is we are having good debates right now on whether or not we need to improve the forwards or if we need to improve the D.

Meanwhile, management tried to move good assets for a goalie
This is merely just my opinion, but what are they saying when you read between the lines? Bishop, from all accounts I've read, is projected to be a #1 goalie and Tampa has started him in 8 of their last 9 games since the deadline. Mind you TDD was under the Tambellini regime, perhaps MacT has different plans for the goaltending for the next few seasons. As I've said in the past, I'm in the "not sold on Dubnyk going forward" camp...I wouldn't mind if they at least made an offer to Mike Smith if Phoenix doesn't resign him.

Let Smith handle 55-60 games and Dubnyk the rest if he signs a 3 or 4 year deal. Of all the other UFA goalies to be, Emery is really the only other one who interests me as a backup if Dubnyk is given the reins.

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04-21-2013, 06:22 PM
  #342
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In my opinion, Tambellini screwed up the rebuild. He didn't add the right pieces at the right time. Our "rebuild" is more along the lines of a perpetual Florida Panthers/Columbus Blue Jackets (before this year) style of rebuild because of that. It's going to take the Oilers a few more years to rebound from his ineptness.

It's easy to draft first overall, but that's all Tambellini really ever did.

I wish MacT luck. Mr. Dithers put him in a heck of a position.
I'm not going to disagree that Tambellini didn't do a great job, but at least he didn't do a lot of harm. The moves he made, and more importantly the moves he didn't make, hurt the Oilers this season and in previous seasons, but they don't really hurt the team next year. He avoided long term contracts. He drafted well, at least with the first round picks. I don't think the team would be much better with any of the players he traded away still on the roster, except for Brodziak.

Mac T has a lot of work to do to improve the team, but he's got a lot of assets to work with and he doesn't have many toxic contracts to deal with. Hemsky is overpaid, but it was a legitimate gamble he might rebound this year, he's still tradable (if not for much), and only has one year left. Horcoff was signed before Tambellini was gm so it's hard to pin that on him. Horcoff could be compliance bought out if it would actually improve the team. Smyth and Belanger are bad, but again only one year on their contracts, and neither is paid too much to put them in the press box. Belanger was a justifiable gamble, and Smyth is sympathetic as a long time Oiler.

What did Tambellini do that prevents Mac T from making this team better over the summer? What moves did Tambellini fail to do that Mac T can't do now?

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Old
04-21-2013, 06:25 PM
  #343
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In my opinion, Tambellini screwed up the rebuild. He didn't add the right pieces at the right time. Our "rebuild" is more along the lines of a perpetual Florida Panthers/Columbus Blue Jackets (before this year) style of rebuild because of that.
Thrashers. Perfect analogue. Crack-T better get his ass in gear this summer.

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04-21-2013, 06:36 PM
  #344
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Even though Howson is no longer the Bluejackets' GM, I still think a Hemsky to Columbus deal makes a lot of sense for both sides (depending on the return, of course).

They just added Gaborik, but are still weak on the right side, and currently operate the league's worst powerplay. Hemsky gives them a RH shot and a valuable powerplay asset at RW.

Dubinsky, Umberger, Foligno, and Prospal are all LWs (though Umberger seems to play all 3F positions at times with the BJs).

What the actual trade would look like? I have no idea, but Hemsky for one of their LWs would seem like a good place to start. Umberger seems like the most likely candidate from a CBJ perspective, but I'd have to think anybody trading for him will only do so if the Jackets retain some of the salary. I could even see both sides retaining salary. Works out to a wash next year, but with the Umberger contract extending to the 2017 offseason, there's a lot more risk that comes with RJ than Hemsky.
I agree, I still see CLB as our best bet for dealing Hemsky. They also have depth on D, LW and C, all of which we sorely lack.

They also have guys who are somewhat overpaid, like Hemsky. I would like to see Hemsky dealt for Dubinsky or Jack Johnson straight across. JJ would give us a PMD signed at a decent rate, and Dubinsky could play C if required, or could add some grit and scoring.

I'd also happily move Hemsky+ retain 1/3rd of his salary for either Anisimov or Foligno, but I doubt CLB would bite.

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The more it is discussed on the Trades forum the more I like Klefbom for Laughton... Flyers fans feel it is fair and they have the C depth to make it happen (Giroux Schenn Couturier)... they need a young LD though

Klefbom meanwhile is our one bluechip D prospect sure but he is LD and probably does not begin to touch his potential before three years from now... Laughton could be a 3C next year with potential for much more

This also gives us more options with our pick... we could trade it for help today... especially on the blueline... say Hemsky + EDM 1st for Yandle + Moss
God no to Klefbom for Laughton. People must be picturing the Mike Richards draft from a similar spot from the same league, and thinking that's what Laughton will become. Its a nice fantasy, but way more likely he'll turn into a 3/4C.

Klefbom is almost untouchable, especially for a relative unknown like Laughton.

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04-21-2013, 06:57 PM
  #345
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To answer the above poster, I'm in the "sold on Dubnyk" camp, which is why I laugh when I see Edmonton try to get a goalie. D is clearly the problem, Devan faces 30 shots a night on way too many occasions.

Which brings me to this:

Matheson pulling things out of his ass in his recent column, suggests that Anaheim could maybe (speculation seemingly) offer Hiller or Fowler in a swap for Gagner. Hiller would make me mad, because I'm in the Dubnyk camp, and Fowler (who has been awful this season, although fighting injury) would be a bit frustrating, because he isn't defensive at all, and I'd rather grab a two-way D-man than another Justin Schultz (nothing against Schultz, just want someone who can actually defend).

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04-21-2013, 07:31 PM
  #346
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4-1 Calgary over Minny.


We now have the 6th overall pick.

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04-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #347
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I don't think the Oilers are actually in any type of position to trade Gagner away. With RNH gone for an unknown period of time.. depth at centre is razor thin.

Horcoff
Lander
Belanger
Smithson
Smyth
VandeVelde
Arcobello

No matter how you stack that up... it looks mediocre at best. Horcoff is the only one out of that group with any offense at all.. and that's minimal at best. (Actually Arcobello as well... but we only know he can do it at the AHL level at this point).

If Gagner is traded (alone or in a package) he's going to be bringing back a dman/goalie or bigger physical winger. He's not gong to be bringing back a big solid offensive centre (what team would logically make that deal?)... so the Oilers hands are pretty much tied to keeping him imo.

They can't afford to deal him because while it may help fill other spots, it just makes a bigger problem down the middle.

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04-21-2013, 07:46 PM
  #348
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Fowler for Gagner?

Where do I f-ing sign?

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04-21-2013, 07:47 PM
  #349
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I'm doing research, involving the 11 teams still in the playoff hunt today, that may include clues as to what would make us better. It may change my opinion quite quickly.

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04-21-2013, 07:51 PM
  #350
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To answer the above poster, I'm in the "sold on Dubnyk" camp, which is why I laugh when I see Edmonton try to get a goalie. D is clearly the problem, Devan faces 30 shots a night on way too many occasions.

Which brings me to this:

Matheson pulling things out of his ass in his recent column, suggests that Anaheim could maybe (speculation seemingly) offer Hiller or Fowler in a swap for Gagner. Hiller would make me mad, because I'm in the Dubnyk camp, and Fowler (who has been awful this season, although fighting injury) would be a bit frustrating, because he isn't defensive at all, and I'd rather grab a two-way D-man than another Justin Schultz (nothing against Schultz, just want someone who can actually defend).
Try posting these 2 points in the Ducks forum and see yourself get flamed. They'll say he's been their best defenceman outside Beauchemin and has improved by leaps and bounds this year. His statline is not at all indicative of his play.

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