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Rumors & Proposals Thread Vol. 15 | Oilers Pick 7th OV

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Old
04-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #726
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Originally Posted by oilers4cup View Post
@Ledger_NJDevils: David Clarkson on his future: "I don't know where I'll be. There haven't been any negotiations between my agent and Mr. Lamoriello."
don't want.



he sounds like a slighty better version of jones who will get 5x as much money.

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04-25-2013, 10:49 AM
  #727
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How are any of those things issues? Ovechkin's friend got dealt I don't see him crying. Iggy got dealt so who cares about the jersey aspect. If he is the best of the bunch/super clutch then you don't move him.

Are we really in the mentality that all of Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yak and Schultz will play their whole careers here?

hey i don't care, but many people seem too including insider bob on the though process of management.



If we can't trade Eberle now, what makes us think we'll be able to move one of them later.

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04-25-2013, 10:49 AM
  #728
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don't want.



he sounds like a slighty better version of jones who will get 5x as much money.
Agreed. We need to steer well clear of his contract demands.

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04-25-2013, 10:50 AM
  #729
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Offer sheet would be an interesting idea as the Rangers are in cap trouble. Problem is is that you would have to make it a ridiculous amount for the Rangers not to match and take the picks. They would just match and deal other people away, or buy out Richards.
I don't think we know for sure, but the window to buy out players* is generally before teams have the opportunity to offer sheet players. If that's the case, and NYR doesn't buy out Richards, they wouldn't necessarily be able to buy him out if someone offer sheets one of their players.


*It could be that compliance buyouts have a different time frame than normal buyouts, haven't heard the details so far with the new CBA.

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04-25-2013, 10:50 AM
  #730
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don't want.



he sounds like a slighty better version of jones who will get 5x as much money.
I hope the Oilers are wary of FAs who's only decent year is this one. Hot streaks(and cold streaks) tend to be magnified in a shortened season.

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04-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #731
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hey i don't care, but many people seem too including insider bob on the though process of management.



If we can't trade Eberle now, what makes us think we'll be able to move one of them later.
I don't think you have to move any of the big names now. You move them when you hit a wall and realize you can't get any better. We have other assets that can be moved first to improve this team.

In 4 years from now if we are like the Nucks then you really have no choice but to look at moving one of your studs.

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04-25-2013, 11:05 AM
  #732
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
i dont think they even want one, they had grigorenko fall in their laps and traded teh pick LOLOLOLOLOL
I think you are a little confused on this...or maybe I am...But I believe Calgary traded their 1st round pick to Buffalo which was 14th overall and Buffalo drafted Zemgus Girgensons with it.

Grigorenko was drafted by Buffalo's own draft pick at #12 two picks before..

But to stay on topic, I think Edmonton needs a centre just as bad as Calgary...

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04-25-2013, 11:10 AM
  #733
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't think you have to move any of the big names now. You move them when you hit a wall and realize you can't get any better. We have other assets that can be moved first to improve this team.

In 4 years from now if we are like the Nucks then you really have no choice but to look at moving one of your studs.

so we burn a third of halls career before making any big moves?



were at a point right now where we can't get any better without a substantial add to the backend.


sure bottom-6 guys can be found as FA or acquired in small deals, but we lack a first pairing on D, and we can't expect to get one unless we are willing to give up a good asset.

especially for next year.



like seriously how many years of halls career are we willing to waste before we address this need. 3 is where i was comfortable, im ready to deal this summer. Eberle is the guy.

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04-25-2013, 11:11 AM
  #734
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
I think you are a little confused on this...or maybe I am...But I believe Calgary traded their 1st round pick to Buffalo which was 14th overall and Buffalo drafted Zemgus Girgensons with it.

Grigorenko was drafted by Buffalo's own draft pick at #12 two picks before..

But to stay on topic, I think Edmonton needs a centre just as bad as Calgary...
JUST AS badly?


sure we could upgrade the position...but really?

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04-25-2013, 11:12 AM
  #735
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Unless they win the lottery, I am on board for trading the pick. If it is top three than you trade it straight up for a young stud d-man.

If this pick is top three, how much do the Oilers need to add to pry Weber out of Nashville?

Gives Nashville a future franchise player to start a rebuild around. The only issue is you would have to be in talks with them about who to draft so that you can make the trade come July when they are allowed to trade Shea.

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04-25-2013, 11:12 AM
  #736
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JUST AS badly?


sure we could upgrade the position...but really?
Okay maybe I might of exaggerated a little.

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04-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #737
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so we burn a third of halls career before making any big moves?



were at a point right now where we can't get any better without a substantial add to the backend.


sure bottom-6 guys can be found as FA or acquired in small deals, but we lack a first pairing on D, and we can't expect to get one unless we are willing to give up a good asset.

especially for next year.



like seriously how many years of halls career are we willing to waste before we address this need. 3 is where i was comfortable, im ready to deal this summer. Eberle is the guy.
Not sure why one of the proven players has to be dealt in order to make a big move.

Put Gagner and Klefbom and 2014 1st, and I'm sure you can find a pretty decent player.

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04-25-2013, 11:16 AM
  #738
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
so we burn a third of halls career before making any big moves?



were at a point right now where we can't get any better without a substantial add to the backend.


sure bottom-6 guys can be found as FA or acquired in small deals, but we lack a first pairing on D, and we can't expect to get one unless we are willing to give up a good asset.

especially for next year.



like seriously how many years of halls career are we willing to waste before we address this need. 3 is where i was comfortable, im ready to deal this summer. Eberle is the guy.
Trading Eberle right now would be a mistake. You are selling low on a player with huge potential.
Eberle had an off year for points wise, most likely because of his broken finger, but if you look at individual scoring chances they show that Eberle actually produced MORE scoring chances this year than last, he was just a victim of bad luck and a low shooting percentage. Which I am hoping is due to his finger.

The only way you trade Eberle is if it is a severe over payment. There are other pieces you can package to get a 1st pairing D. Start with our 1st rounder this year, which could more than likely be top 3 in this year's draft...

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04-25-2013, 11:17 AM
  #739
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Unless they win the lottery, I am on board for trading the pick. If it is top three than you trade it straight up for a young stud d-man.

If this pick is top three, how much do the Oilers need to add to pry Weber out of Nashville?

Gives Nashville a future franchise player to start a rebuild around. The only issue is you would have to be in talks with them about who to draft so that you can make the trade come July when they are allowed to trade Shea.
Weber can't be traded until well after the draft. Who do you expect would be available for our pick?

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04-25-2013, 11:30 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
you would need a 7 foot 400 pound 2C to get the average size of that top six above 6.1 190.
Can we stop with the size=success ********?

Montreal Top 6:

Patches (6'2, 219) - Desharnais (5'7, 177) - Gallagher (5'9, 178)
Bourque (6'2, 213) - Plekanec (5'11, 196) - Gionta (5'7, 174)

That's an average size of 5'10 and 193 lbs.

Chicago Top 6:

Saad (6'1, 202) - Toews (6'2, 208) - Hossa (6'1, 210)
Sharp (6'1, 199) - Bolland (6'0, 184) - Kane (5'11, 181)

That's an average size of 6'0.5 and 197 lbs.

Edmonton Top 6:

Hall (6'1, 195) - RNH (6'1, 185) - Eberle (5'11, 184)
MPS (6'3, 208) - Gagner (5'11, 199) - Yak (5'11, 184)

That's an average size of 6'0.3 and 193 lbs.

Detroit Top 6:

Abdelkader (6'1, 219) - Datsyuk (5'11, 198) - Cleary (6'0, 208)
Franzen (6'3, 223) - Zetterberg (5'11, 197) - Brunner (5'11, 184)

Average size: 6'0 and 205 lbs.

I could keep going, but the point is we're about average in the height department and maybe slightly lower than average in the weight column... but the point is size doesn't = success.

If you want to say this team needs to play a grittier game or something like that, fine, but I'm tired of people being like, oh this random guy is exactly what we need because he's 6'3 and 220 lbs, etc, etc.

Not to mention Hall, RNH, and Yak will all realistically build up more over the next few years and the only player in our top 6 that would be below average size is Eberle, and maybe Gagner by an inch or two though he is already above league average weight.


Last edited by dyzfunctioned: 04-25-2013 at 11:36 AM.
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Old
04-25-2013, 11:32 AM
  #741
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Weber can't be traded until well after the draft. Who do you expect would be available for our pick?
Thats why in the last paragraph I wrote that they would have to be in discussions with Nashville when Oilers pick their player.

Again assuming the Oilers draft 3rd OV and draft either Drouin/Mckinnon (whichever Nash favours), than come July when Weber is available you make the trade centring Drouin/Mckinnon.

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04-25-2013, 11:36 AM
  #742
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Thats why in the last paragraph I wrote that they would have to be in discussions with Nashville when Oilers pick their player.

Again assuming the Oilers draft 3rd OV and draft either Drouin/Mckinnon (whichever Nash favours), than come July when Weber is available you make the trade centring Drouin/Mckinnon.
And what happens when NSH pulls out of the deal and you are left with a guy you didn't want?

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04-25-2013, 11:43 AM
  #743
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you would need a 7 foot 400 pound 2C to get the average size of that top six above 6.1 190.
What does that matter. People get so hung up on size. It isnt size it is compete that we need. You add a decent competnet 2 way center to that line up and your top 6 is locked in. You can fill your bottom 6 with free agents with compete and your forward group is set.

Example would be:

Trade Gagner, MPS, Lander,Hartikinen, N Schultz, Hemsky and other prospects for top pairing Dman like a Yandle/Erik Johnson/Bogosian/Alzner/Jaybo/Coburn and 2nd line center like a Ott/Stastny/Eller/Bolland/Dubinsky. (I am trying to keep it very broad to not discuss the player just the idea)


Hall - RNH - Eberle
Drouin - Dubinsky - Yak
MacArthur - Horcoff - Bickell/Colby Armstrong
Nystrom/Torres - Chipchura/Lapierrire - Brown

Yandel - Petry
Smid - J Schultz
Klefbom - Rozsival/Regeher

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04-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #744
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Originally Posted by dyzfunctioned View Post
Can we stop with the size=success ********?



Edmonton Top 6:

Hall (6'1, 195) - RNH (6'1, 185) - Eberle (5'11, 184)
MPS (6'3, 208) - Gagner (5'11, 199) - Yak (5'11, 184)

That's an average size of 6'0.3 and 193 lbs.


I could keep going, but the point is we're about average in the height department and maybe slightly lower than average in the weight column... but the point is size doesn't = success.

If you want to say this team needs to play a grittier game or something like that, fine, but I'm tired of people being like, oh this random guy is exactly what we need because he's 6'3 and 220 lbs, etc, etc.

Not to mention Hall, RNH, and Yak will all realistically build up more over the next few years and the only player in our top 6 that would be below average size is Eberle, and maybe Gagner by an inch or two though he is already above league average weight.
I'm not saying we have to be huge, but the lineup i quoted had drouin over MPS...so we subtract our biggest player put in our would be smallest, its just too small and soft overall.


I'm not even a massive pusher of size and grit or anything, i dont like players like brown/smithson/hordichuck/jones, but there are limits.


Do you really expect a top-6 of Hall/RNH/Eberle/Drouin/Yakupov/XX to create much on the cycle vs our new division of PHX/SJ/LA/ANH/VAN?

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04-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #745
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Unless they win the lottery, I am on board for trading the pick. If it is top three than you trade it straight up for a young stud d-man.

If this pick is top three, how much do the Oilers need to add to pry Weber out of Nashville?

Gives Nashville a future franchise player to start a rebuild around. The only issue is you would have to be in talks with them about who to draft so that you can make the trade come July when they are allowed to trade Shea.
We need to get over the Weber thing because he isnt moving. Preds fans are talking that Managment will move the pick becuase they want to build around Weber and Rinne with plays now.

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04-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #746
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I'm not saying we have to be huge, but the lineup i quoted had drouin over MPS...so we subtract our biggest player put in our would be smallest, its just too small and soft overall.


I'm not even a massive pusher of size and grit or anything, i dont like players like brown/smithson/hordichuck/jones, but there are limits.


Do you really expect a top-6 of Hall/RNH/Eberle/Drouin/Yakupov/XX to create much on the cycle vs our new division of PHX/SJ/LA/ANH/VAN?
I really like PRV but who has more push back and is harder to play against he or Yak/Hall who are smaller? Size isn't what makes your team hard to play against it is compete.

Hall-RNH-Eberle is a line that has all the tools when they put it together and if they had a coach to push them. Other teams will talking about trying to match up this line. This line is not why we are the worst team every year. Bottom 6 and Dman are the proble.

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04-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #747
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We need to get over the Weber thing because he isnt moving. Preds fans are talking that Managment will move the pick becuase they want to build around Weber and Rinne with plays now.
Can't a guy dream? Weber would fill so many holes on Edmonton right now... Bring skill, toughness, compete level, experience and all of it on the top pairing on the blue line...

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04-25-2013, 11:56 AM
  #748
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I'm not saying we have to be huge, but the lineup i quoted had drouin over MPS...so we subtract our biggest player put in our would be smallest, its just too small and soft overall.


I'm not even a massive pusher of size and grit or anything, i dont like players like brown/smithson/hordichuck/jones, but there are limits.


Do you really expect a top-6 of Hall/RNH/Eberle/Drouin/Yakupov/XX to create much on the cycle vs our new division of PHX/SJ/LA/ANH/VAN?
That's fair - I don't think there's such a thing as too small, it just comes down to how the player plays and how easily they get knocked off the puck.

It just drives me insane when people are like, hey, we need a big bodied guy like Penner or this other random big guy because our lineup needs size. Size doesn't mean ****. Four of the toughest guys I can think of to get the puck off of are Forsberg, Crosby, Datsyuk, Jagr - none of these guys are particularly big other than Jagr.

So when I see guys say we need to get a big body in the top 6, or we need to draft Monahan because he's 6'3 or whatever... Just stop. Look at how they play.

Again, if someone says we need a player who plays big or who can control the puck I won't say anything. But when someone say's "We need size!"... Just ugh,

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04-25-2013, 12:04 PM
  #749
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Can't a guy dream? Weber would fill so many holes on Edmonton right now... Bring skill, toughness, compete level, experience and all of it on the top pairing on the blue line...
We can all dream. This is a guy who would 100% change the whole makeup of our team but the preds see that as well. Josi-Weber pairing looks solid and they add a legit Forward to their group they are looking on the upswing as well.

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04-25-2013, 12:08 PM
  #750
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That's fair - I don't think there's such a thing as too small, it just comes down to how the player plays and how easily they get knocked off the puck.

It just drives me insane when people are like, hey, we need a big bodied guy like Penner or this other random big guy because our lineup needs size. Size doesn't mean ****. Four of the toughest guys I can think of to get the puck off of are Forsberg, Crosby, Datsyuk, Jagr - none of these guys are particularly big other than Jagr.

So when I see guys say we need to get a big body in the top 6, or we need to draft Monahan because he's 6'3 or whatever... Just stop. Look at how they play.

Again, if someone says we need a player who plays big or who can control the puck I won't say anything. But when someone say's "We need size!"... Just ugh,
+1, well said.

A post on another thread summed this up:

"Mike Richards is shorter than RNH and the same weight as Gagner.

We could sure use a Mike Richards on this team." dem

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