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Old
04-26-2005, 04:05 PM
  #26
katodelder
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Whichever team lands Sidney Crosby / 1st overall pick in 2005 draft will not trade him / it under any circumstances.

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Old
04-26-2005, 04:26 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
If I'm the Habs GM (God forbid), I'd personally try to trade away whatever assests I have (the prospects before they lose all value (in my opinion they won't pan out)) to move up the upcoming draft.

DO you read your own posts before submitting ?
"In your opinion" all the Habs prospects will soon lose all value and won't pan out !!!

To state such an extreme position is just plain ******.

You might as well have stated the HABS management is totaly incompitant in drafting any player so you would trade the entire farm system for Crosby. AND you include all current team players.

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Old
04-26-2005, 04:35 PM
  #28
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I don't know who I would give for him, but I know I wouldn't give Ryder.

If the Habs can draft his brother Daniel, the Ryder Brothers might be the next big thing in Montreal hockey.

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Old
04-26-2005, 04:43 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLC
DO you read your own posts before submitting ?
"In your opinion" all the Habs prospects will soon lose all value and won't pan out !!!

To state such an extreme position is just plain ******.

You might as well have stated the HABS management is totaly incompitant in drafting any player so you would trade the entire farm system for Crosby. AND you include all current team players.
No, I don't you should trade all prospects for one player. I'm thinking the Habs should make package deals with some of their prospects that are losing value to gain spots from 6-16 (perhaps 2 or 3).

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Old
04-26-2005, 04:54 PM
  #30
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For all those that are willing to trade away anything for Crosby I say this.

If Waye Gretsky did not have Kuri,Mess, and all the others HE would never had broken all the records. Even when he went to LA he had good players to support his great plays.

But if was on a team with virtualy no support because you had to trade off ALL your depth in order to get him, it would never had worked. He might have scored 3 goals per game and lost every game.

ALL clubs want Crosby, but at what cost?
If you are a club that does not have good prospects you might gamble, but if you DO have good prospects I would NEVER trade all away on ONE player.

I think the entire discussion is moot. If Crosby goes to a current "bad club" Lets not forget that in the NHL drafting system "bad clubs" get the best picks and if I am a bad club I have good prospets that have come to me over the past 2-3 years. Adding Crosby to my current list of prospects will give me a TOP contender in a mear 2-3 years.
If Crosby enters a lotterie system, then the club that gets him WILL KEEP HIM

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:00 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
No, I don't you should trade all prospects for one player. I'm thinking the Habs should make package deals with some of their prospects that are losing value to gain spots from 6-16 (perhaps 2 or 3).
Ok, so all you wanted was to move up and use the not so good prospects to do so?

I will agree that this might be an option. So many teams are concentrating on Crosby that some other TOP rookies might be available for the picking. If so you might be right. Due to the attention to Crosby the Habs might be able to moveup to steal a TOP prospect.

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:10 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLC
Ok, so all you wanted was to move up and use the not so good prospects to do so?

I will agree that this might be an option. So many teams are concentrating on Crosby that some other TOP rookies might be available for the picking. If so you might be right. Due to the attention to Crosby the Habs might be able to moveup to steal a TOP prospect.
I'm talking about prospects like Plekanec, Higgins, Hainsey, Perezhogin, etc.

Here's an example, Plekanec, Perezhogin for the 8th pick in the first round (a VERY deep draft). Then Kostitsyn and Hainsey for the 10th pick.

An 8th and a 10th would be similar to a 3rd or 4th in regular drafts.

Just my opinion of course.

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:14 PM
  #33
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Given that the salary cap era is upon us, Crosby's value should (in theory) diminish significantly. GM's aren't stupid enough to give up 2-3 very good players for a player who will also count significantly against the cap. Look at the NFL. Randy Moss went for peanuts despite him being the biggest impact player in the league. The financial aspect of players will now affect their value and therefore I believe that whichever team drafts (or has the #1 pick) Crosby will keep him.

He wouldn't fetch nearly as much as some of you guys think.

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:15 PM
  #34
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if i was bob gainey

i dont trade for crosby,

i draft in first round ryan parent or luc bourdon

my line up

zed-koivu-kovalev
ryder-ribeiro-perezhogin
bulis-bonk-higgins
sndstrom-begin-ward
ivanans-dagenais

markov-aucoin
souray-rivet
hainsey-komo

theo
huet/danis


- resigne kovalev
- sign aucoin
- dont resign brisebois dhykuis ...
- trade hossa and plekaneck for a defeseman or do move up in the draft

hamilton


kostitsyn-locke-milroy
lambert-grabosky-thinel
morgan-urquart-****
carpentier-lappierre-****

focht-cote
archer- plante
flood-sanford

danis
michaud
halak

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:51 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfan 32
Higgins
Hainsey
Ryder
Bonk
Hossa
and our 1st rounder
Bonk worth nothing
Hainsey and Hossa, they are plenty in the NHL
Ryder, Well one good season..
1st Rounder, of course not as good as Crosby...

Even if it's your offer is a big one... It's not enough for Crosby..

For you need to give a pretty young 1st line center or two cheap great 2nd line, 2 or 3 blue chip prospect.... (plekanec is great prospect but not a blue chip) and two first rounder

Maybe: Ryder, Ribeiro, Danis or Komi, Kostitsyn, Higgins and two 1st rounder but i have even some doubts

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Old
04-26-2005, 05:53 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
Bonk worth nothing
Hainsey and Hossa, they are plenty in the NHL
Ryder, Well one good season..
1st Rounder, of course not as good as Crosby...

Even if it's your offer is a big one... It's not enough for Crosby..

For you need to give a pretty young 1st line center or two cheap great 2nd line, 2 or 3 blue chip prospect.... (plekanec is great prospect but not a blue chip) and two first rounder

Maybe: Ryder, Ribeiro, Danis or Komi, Kostitsyn, Higgins and two 1st rounder but i have even some doubts
I didn't see you include higgins. sorry

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Old
04-26-2005, 06:53 PM
  #37
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Well, I think you would have to wait to see who would get the 1st overall pick first, then see what their needs are. Then after making a very good offer, it would probably get shot down. BG would then have to go to the other manager of the winning team, and kick the living crap out of him. After that, we get Crosby for our first rounder in 2005/06/07 + Kosts + Komo + Ryder. Can you imagine what we would pay if BG didn't beat the other manager up? We would have to strip our system to get Crosby, which I think is too big a risk no matter how good the kid turns out to be.

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Old
04-26-2005, 07:04 PM
  #38
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After waiting for years to have good prospects I DOn't want to trade a goods ones. ANY !
If the Habs can move up the second rounder to a late first rounder in this deep draft to get a needed players OK, but the price for moving up to get a second first rounder better be right.
This might be a much better idea then dumping some good prospects just to go from 18th to 8th at the cost of 2 good guys.

Much depends on who is still available at the right time.

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Old
04-26-2005, 07:05 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezNc
Bonk worth nothing
Hainsey and Hossa, they are plenty in the NHL
Ryder, Well one good season..
1st Rounder, of course not as good as Crosby...

Even if it's your offer is a big one... It's not enough for Crosby..

For you need to give a pretty young 1st line center or two cheap great 2nd line, 2 or 3 blue chip prospect.... (plekanec is great prospect but not a blue chip) and two first rounder

Maybe: Ryder, Ribeiro, Danis or Komi, Kostitsyn, Higgins and two 1st rounder but i have even some doubts
I agree with this post. That is the kind of package it is going to take.

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Old
04-26-2005, 07:06 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealCruiser_83
Given that the salary cap era is upon us, Crosby's value should (in theory) diminish significantly. GM's aren't stupid enough to give up 2-3 very good players for a player who will also count significantly against the cap. Look at the NFL. Randy Moss went for peanuts despite him being the biggest impact player in the league. The financial aspect of players will now affect their value and therefore I believe that whichever team drafts (or has the #1 pick) Crosby will keep him.

He wouldn't fetch nearly as much as some of you guys think.
Moss went so cheap because he has an attitude problem and is a cancer in the dressing room. Not so much because of his contract

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Old
04-26-2005, 07:40 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
Moss went so cheap because he has an attitude problem and is a cancer in the dressing room. Not so much because of his contract
Even though that has no truth to it whatsoever, take your pick:
Marty Booker, Lavernues Coles, Pat Surtain

E. James can be had for a 2nd or 3rd rounder... Same with Shaun Alexander. Probably the two best running backs in the league. Travis Henry was one phone call away from being traded for a horrible offensive lineman.

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Old
04-26-2005, 09:52 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclusky
If i was the G.M. , this is what I would offer.


Koivu
Ryder
Pleks/Hossa
Hainsey
Kostitsyn
Uruquahrt/Locke
1st
no way! this is totally insane!

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Old
04-26-2005, 09:53 PM
  #43
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I think anyone but Komi and Theodore, but I'd think about Komi if the rest of the package wasn't ridiculous. Theodore I'd also think about.

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Old
04-26-2005, 09:54 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medmed
no way! this is totally insane!
I would do that in a heartbeat. Koivu is getting older and who cares about the rest (except Kosty....that one hurts).

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Old
04-26-2005, 11:38 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
I'm talking about prospects like Plekanec, Higgins, Hainsey, Perezhogin, etc.

Here's an example, Plekanec, Perezhogin for the 8th pick in the first round (a VERY deep draft). Then Kostitsyn and Hainsey for the 10th pick.

An 8th and a 10th would be similar to a 3rd or 4th in regular drafts.

Just my opinion of course.
I don't quite follow your thinking with the packages your suggesting. You would take Pleks + Perez and package them for the 8th pick? Two players who are almost ready for the Habs for a middle of the road pick. We then package Kosts + Hainsey for the 10th pick. Kosts was the 10th pick in one of the deepest drafts ever, and Hainsey is one of our best D prospects (yes we need Defence help). BTW this draft is said to be pretty good, but after the first few picks, it's pretty much hit or miss. I certaintly don't think we can get the moon for the players in the example, but I'm pretty sure we can get more than the 8th & 10th pick.

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Old
04-27-2005, 07:19 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
I'm talking about prospects like Plekanec, Higgins, Hainsey, Perezhogin, etc.

Here's an example, Plekanec, Perezhogin for the 8th pick in the first round (a VERY deep draft). Then Kostitsyn and Hainsey for the 10th pick.

An 8th and a 10th would be similar to a 3rd or 4th in regular drafts.

Just my opinion of course.
This makes no sense at all... what kind of stupid reasoning did you come up with to get that? Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk, but why would you trade prospects who have done nothing to show they won't pan out for another unknown quantity?

So you invest 3 or 4 years in prospects like the one's you mentionned (Plekanec, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn and Hainsey) and then you trade them away before even seeing what they can bring to your team, to bring in 1 or 2 players who are even further away from playing in the NHL?

What happens then, you invest another 3 or 4 years into them, only to trade them away in the next "big" draft? then it just becomes a vicious cycle....I see you've been going to the school of Pat Quinn for too long...

Here's a scenario, how about the Leafs trading Wellwood right now, his value is at his highest right? Why don't you guys package him, Kaberle, Steen and a 1st round pick to move up in the draft...

I know what your going to say, why would we trade Wellwood/Steen now?

Get the point?


P.S.-Considering the Leafs situation, it might not be a bad idea to do such a thing, but our depth among our prospect is deeper, we are not as desperate

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Old
04-27-2005, 07:20 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gars59
if i was bob gainey

i dont trade for crosby,

i draft in first round ryan parent or luc bourdon

my line up

zed-koivu-kovalev
ryder-ribeiro-perezhogin
bulis-bonk-higgins
sndstrom-begin-ward
ivanans-dagenais
markov-aucoin
souray-rivet
hainsey-komo

theo
huet/danis


- resigne kovalev
- sign aucoin
- dont resign brisebois dhykuis ...
- trade hossa and plekaneck for a defeseman or do move up in the draft

hamilton


kostitsyn-locke-milroy
lambert-grabosky-thinel
morgan-urquart-****
carpentier-lappierre-****

focht-cote
archer- plante
flood-sanford

danis
michaud
halak

You wanna keep slow coach Dagenais why ? He can't skate for toffee !!!!

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Old
04-27-2005, 07:29 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontrealCruiser_83
Even though that has no truth to it whatsoever, take your pick:
Marty Booker, Lavernues Coles, Pat Surtain

E. James can be had for a 2nd or 3rd rounder... Same with Shaun Alexander. Probably the two best running backs in the league. Travis Henry was one phone call away from being traded for a horrible offensive lineman.
Why doesn't that have any truth to it? Moss had an attitude and was a total jerk.

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Old
04-27-2005, 08:18 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 TO MTL
This makes no sense at all... what kind of stupid reasoning did you come up with to get that? Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk, but why would you trade prospects who have done nothing to show they won't pan out for another unknown quantity?

So you invest 3 or 4 years in prospects like the one's you mentionned (Plekanec, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn and Hainsey) and then you trade them away before even seeing what they can bring to your team, to bring in 1 or 2 players who are even further away from playing in the NHL?

What happens then, you invest another 3 or 4 years into them, only to trade them away in the next "big" draft? then it just becomes a vicious cycle....I see you've been going to the school of Pat Quinn for too long...

Here's a scenario, how about the Leafs trading Wellwood right now, his value is at his highest right? Why don't you guys package him, Kaberle, Steen and a 1st round pick to move up in the draft...

I know what your going to say, why would we trade Wellwood/Steen now?

Get the point?


P.S.-Considering the Leafs situation, it might not be a bad idea to do such a thing, but our depth among our prospect is deeper, we are not as desperate

Well, like I said previously (if you would actually read the post carefully)- I believe most Hab prospects won't pan out and make an impact in the NHL. Thus, this draft would be a prime situation to trade some of those that would bust (while they still have some value) to obtain better and more safer prospects for your system.

-Edit- Oh and this is not about the Leafs so stop bringing them up.

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Old
04-27-2005, 08:29 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossroads
Well, like I said previously (if you would actually read the post carefully)- I believe most Hab prospects won't pan out and make an impact in the NHL. Thus, this draft would be a prime situation to trade some of those that would bust (while they still have some value) to obtain better and more safer prospects for your system.

-Edit- Oh and this is not about the Leafs so stop bringing them up.
I read your post carefully, in fact I read it over several times just to make sure what I was reading was correct...

This is the key statement in your post....

"Youbelieve most Hab prospect won't pan out and make an impact in the NHL..."

So according to you, Plekanec, Perezhogin, Kostitsyn, Hainsey will all be bust... yet, you have a player like Wellwood (i'll bring up the Leafs, what?) assured to making the NHL, not saying it won't happen, but why are you so sure for him, yet your sure ours won't make it...

You don't make any sense, you want the Habs to trade away some of their top prospects, who BTW except for Hainsey to some degree, have done nothing to show they will be bust, for an 8th and 10th overall pick, players who have even more chance of becoming bust...so we lose the 3 or 4 years of development time we've put in our prospects, to invest another 3 or 4 years into more players? What happens if they bust?

Your logic doesn't make sense, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with you...

Save yourself the trouble and don't even reply...i've seen some dumb stuff written on this forum, this one might take the cake though...

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