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If you had to choose: Trade Schneider or Buy-Out Luongo?

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Old
04-22-2013, 04:13 PM
  #126
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If Lu was waived, no one would pick him up because that's the first step to a buyout. They'll happily wait until he's bought out and sign him for a good 3-4 year contract.

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04-22-2013, 04:14 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Trading Schnieder this summer would create a market, where teams like Jersey, Philly and Edmonton (others?) would be making HUGE offers to get him.
You think ? I was just On a NJ posting to trade their pick this year and a Van fan mention CS , and it seem NJ did not want him . Now that is fans not a GM .
As an Oiler fan i would not trade one of our kids for him . Just something about CS i do not like and i also think one Lou is gone CS will struggle . Of course i have nothing to back that up just a feeling . Just like i said all along i had a feeling the Oilers would not make the playoffs until next year

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04-22-2013, 05:35 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
If Lu was waived, no one would pick him up because that's the first step to a buyout. They'll happily wait until he's bought out and sign him for a good 3-4 year contract.
Vancouver would be better off sending a 1st round pick along with Luongo to some team willing to take on his contract. Think about it, Luongo's buyout would be 27 million. How much is their first round pick worth (approximately25th overall)? My guess far less than 27 million dollars. Luongo won't be bought out.

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04-22-2013, 05:43 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Charon of Styx View Post
Vancouver would be better off sending a 1st round pick along with Luongo to some team willing to take on his contract. Think about it, Luongo's buyout would be 27 million. How much is their first round pick worth (approximately25th overall)? My guess far less than 27 million dollars. Luongo won't be bought out.
Luongo won't be bought out because he will be traded.

Look at the contracts guys are asking for right now...

I'd take Luongo and his contract over any elite goalie contract signed in the last two years.

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04-22-2013, 06:12 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
If Lu was waived, no one would pick him up because that's the first step to a buyout. They'll happily wait until he's bought out and sign him for a good 3-4 year contract.
All it would take is one bold GM who wouldn't be able to attract him to their franchise to pick him up...then that plan would fall apart.

Redundant though, because there is no way one of our goalies won't fetch a return.

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04-22-2013, 06:20 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Luongo won't be bought out because he will be traded.

Look at the contracts guys are asking for right now...

I'd take Luongo and his contract over any elite goalie contract signed in the last two years.
Easy to say, because that's exactly what they did. But no one outside of Vancouver would.

If he's traded, salary is coming back. Guaranteed.

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04-22-2013, 06:26 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Easy to say, because that's exactly what they did. But no one outside of Vancouver would.

If he's traded, salary is coming back. Guaranteed.
Go through the elite goalies that signed UFA contracts recently...who would you rather have (name them all if you can).

I am almost certain that Philly would rather have Luongo on his deal than Bryz.

I would take Luongo at $1.7M less of a hit per season than Rinne who got 7 x 49M.

I would take Luongo over Howard who just signed for the same cap hit as Luongo $5.3M for 6 years.

Mike Smith is rumored to be asking for the same as Rinne (7x7) I would take Luongo over that as well.

Not really sure which other top tier goalies signed UFA contracts recently (I don't really count Vokoun at this point because of age and ability).

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04-22-2013, 06:27 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Cogburn View Post
All it would take is one bold GM who wouldn't be able to attract him to their franchise to pick him up...then that plan would fall apart.

Redundant though, because there is no way one of our goalies won't fetch a return.
Luongo won't fetch a return. We learned that at the deadline when Gillis was begging Nonis to take him. But Schneider will.

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04-22-2013, 06:30 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Go through the elite goalies that signed UFA contracts recently...who would you rather have (name them all if you can).

I am almost certain that Philly would rather have Luongo on his deal than Bryz.

I would take Luongo at $1.7M less of a hit per season than Rinne who got 7 x 49M.

I would take Luongo over Howard who just signed for the same cap hit as Luongo $5.3M for 6 years.

Mike Smith is rumored to be asking for the same as Rinne (7x7) I would take Luongo over that as well.

Not really sure which other top tier goalies signed UFA contracts recently (I don't really count Vokoun at this point because of age and ability).
Must we keep reminding that Luongo has 10 years left on his contract? And until Mike Smith actually gets that, it's all speculation? Philly would love to have Luongo at his cap. But not at that term.

Nothing has changed from the deadline to now for Luongo. In fact, his value is even less going into the off-season. Nobody is gonna do Vancouver a favor, and the reality is buyout or take salary back in a trade.

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04-22-2013, 06:34 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Must we keep reminding that Luongo has 10 years left on his contract? And until Mike Smith actually gets that, it's all speculation? Philly would love to have Luongo at his cap. But not at that term.

Nothing has changed from the deadline to now for Luongo. In fact, his value is even less going into the off-season. Nobody is gonna do Vancouver a favor, and the reality is buyout or take salary back in a trade.
You don't have to remind me of anything. I've included contract in my thinking.

The Flyers wish they could trade Bryz for Luongo right now, as contracts are.

I doubt that Nashville would trade Rinne for Luongo but as the fan of a cap team, I'd rather have Luongo on his contract than Rinne on his.

I'm not a big fan of Luongo's contract post-CBA, was a huge fan pre-CBA. That being said, the cap hit deferral still has advantages for cap teams to have the lower cap hit now and a higher one later...cap space now is more important than cap space later for anyone that would want Luongo IMO.


Last edited by DJOpus: 04-22-2013 at 06:41 PM.
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04-22-2013, 06:38 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
You don't have to remind me of anything. I've included contract in my thinking.

The Flyers wish they could trade Bryz for Luongo right now, as contracts are.

I doubt that Nashville would trade Rinne for Luongo but as the fan of a cap team, I'd rather have Luongo on his contract than Rinne on his.
What you'd rather have is neither here nor there the reality of the situation is quite different.

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04-22-2013, 06:53 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
You don't have to remind me of anything. I've included contract in my thinking.

The Flyers wish they could trade Bryz for Luongo right now, as contracts are.

I doubt that Nashville would trade Rinne for Luongo but as the fan of a cap team, I'd rather have Luongo on his contract than Rinne on his.

I'm not a big fan of Luongo's contract post-CBA, was a huge fan pre-CBA. That being said, the cap hit deferral still has advantages for cap teams to have the lower cap hit now and a higher one later...cap space now is more important than cap space later for anyone that would want Luongo IMO.

Having a more desirable contract that Bryz is nothing to brag about.

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04-22-2013, 07:06 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Must we keep reminding that Luongo has 10 years left on his contract? And until Mike Smith actually gets that, it's all speculation? Philly would love to have Luongo at his cap. But not at that term.
Philly didn't seem particularly worried about term when they signed Brzygalov.

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04-22-2013, 07:37 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
What you'd rather have is neither here nor there the reality of the situation is quite different.
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Having a more desirable contract that Bryz is nothing to brag about.
Not bragging, just pointing it out. Also, it seems like smackdaddy is disagreeing with me with some sort of magical "reality" which there is no way to prove empirically.

All that's been proven is that Luongo couldn't be traded for whatever Gillis was asking for at the deadline (which seems like it started as a 1st + top tier prospect and then was reduced to 2 x 2nds at the last minute which was apparently the Leafs offer which they then requested that the Canucks eat cap space which ended the conversation) - I actually have no idea why the Leafs were even in the market for a goalie, seems like they've found theirs...maybe they were just trying to troll Vancouver since it seems like the didn't say that they wanted the Canucks to retain cap space until there was about 10 minutes left to make the trade (based on some reports).

Top tier UFA goalies cost a lot in terms of contract. This is demonstrated by recent UFA (or upcoming UFA) goalie signings. I believe that someone will decide Luongo @ $5.3M with a reduced trade asking price is better than Smith or Backstrom at $7M long-term...but only time will tell I guess.

Teams I think should be disappointed that they didn't trade for Luongo last off-season should include Winnipeg, Florida, and Tampa who have both had bad goaltending this year and as a result had very disappointing seasons...I'm glad the Canucks kept Luongo for the year since he bailed us out early in the season which is a big reason why the team is winning the NW division despite a lot of injury troubles.

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Old
04-22-2013, 07:39 PM
  #140
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Well, I guess we'll find out.
The Leafs refused a 2nd and Scrivens for Luongo. Not because of the player value, but because his contract is way too awful.

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04-22-2013, 07:43 PM
  #141
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Amnesty?
Eh, weren't reports that Toronto was interested but Vancouver wanted way to much? If Vancouver really wants to get rid of him, they'll probably trade him for something, even if it's really small, than use an amnesty buyout on him.

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04-22-2013, 08:03 PM
  #142
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was pleasantly surprised at the discourse in the first few pages

then checked back recently and see the latest from the oilfans, lol

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04-22-2013, 08:14 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Not bragging, just pointing it out. Also, it seems like smackdaddy is disagreeing with me with some sort of magical "reality" which there is no way to prove empirically.

All that's been proven is that Luongo couldn't be traded for whatever Gillis was asking for at the deadline (which seems like it started as a 1st + top tier prospect and then was reduced to 2 x 2nds at the last minute which was apparently the Leafs offer which they then requested that the Canucks eat cap space which ended the conversation) - I actually have no idea why the Leafs were even in the market for a goalie, seems like they've found theirs...maybe they were just trying to troll Vancouver since it seems like the didn't say that they wanted the Canucks to retain cap space until there was about 10 minutes left to make the trade (based on some reports).

Top tier UFA goalies cost a lot in terms of contract. This is demonstrated by recent UFA (or upcoming UFA) goalie signings. I believe that someone will decide Luongo @ $5.3M with a reduced trade asking price is better than Smith or Backstrom at $7M long-term...but only time will tell I guess.

Teams I think should be disappointed that they didn't trade for Luongo last off-season should include Winnipeg, Florida, and Tampa who have both had bad goaltending this year and as a result had very disappointing seasons...I'm glad the Canucks kept Luongo for the year since he bailed us out early in the season which is a big reason why the team is winning the NW division despite a lot of injury troubles.
I doubt any team regrets trading for Luongo but I'm sure Gillis regrets not doing so last summer


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 04-22-2013 at 08:23 PM. Reason: fixed formatting
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04-22-2013, 08:27 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by DJOpus View Post
Not bragging, just pointing it out. Also, it seems like smackdaddy is disagreeing with me with some sort of magical "reality" which there is no way to prove empirically.

All that's been proven is that Luongo couldn't be traded for whatever Gillis was asking for at the deadline (which seems like it started as a 1st + top tier prospect and then was reduced to 2 x 2nds at the last minute which was apparently the Leafs offer which they then requested that the Canucks eat cap space which ended the conversation) - I actually have no idea why the Leafs were even in the market for a goalie, seems like they've found theirs...maybe they were just trying to troll Vancouver since it seems like the didn't say that they wanted the Canucks to retain cap space until there was about 10 minutes left to make the trade (based on some reports).

Top tier UFA goalies cost a lot in terms of contract. This is demonstrated by recent UFA (or upcoming UFA) goalie signings. I believe that someone will decide Luongo @ $5.3M with a reduced trade asking price is better than Smith or Backstrom at $7M long-term...but only time will tell I guess.

Teams I think should be disappointed that they didn't trade for Luongo last off-season should include Winnipeg, Florida, and Tampa who have both had bad goaltending this year and as a result had very disappointing seasons...I'm glad the Canucks kept Luongo for the year since he bailed us out early in the season which is a big reason why the team is winning the NW division despite a lot of injury troubles.
You're forgetting a few important events in the Luongo timeline. Namely, the entire 2012 off-season and lockout.

As you must be aware, there are certain windows where Luongo could have been traded. As each one passes by, the value of Luongo plummets. This is because of a couple factors.

A) The cap is dropping to $64M next year.
B) The Canucks are in cap trouble. (They must trade Luongo if they have any intent on continuing their contention).

At each interval, Gillis has demanded much more than the market was willing to accept. Luongo's value was highest in the 2012 off-season, where Gillis had 3 potential suitors in Toronto, Chicago, and Florida. All of which backed out. All of which have found solutions elsewhere. Oops.

How every other GM in the league is looking at this situation is the same. The Canucks have to move Luongo. It's either they move him, or severely cripple any chances of future contention. That leaves Vancouver 3 options: Waive him/buy him out, trade him, or roll with him next year (Imagine the optics on that one? ).

If I'm a GM, why would I give up assets for a goaltender when its a buyers market and it's likely Luongo will be bought out/waived anyway? The answer is, I don't.

Whether Luongo is a good goaltender, or that his cap hit is reasonable, or that Mike Smith is going to command absurd money, or that Bryz has a crappier contract, doesn't make a lick of difference. It's irrelevant to Luongo's situation. The reality, which you have casually dismissed, is that Luongo's contract is a dead man walking. Nobody is going to commit to Luongo for 10 years (No one has forgotten the 2012 playoffs, either), and even if they did, the salary that Vancouver would have to keep, or the salary that would have to be coming back would make trading him redundant in regards to the cap situation Vancouver is facing.

And the kicker? Everyone and their grandma knows the clock strikes 12 for Gillis in the off-season.

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04-22-2013, 08:30 PM
  #145
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. Vancouver is better off trading Schneider. You can get way more for him in a trade and those pieces could put Vancouver over the top towards winning a cup. Yes, Cory is the better goalie, but you don't lose that much by having Luongo in there. IMO this is the best way to maximize both assets.

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04-22-2013, 09:15 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
You're forgetting a few important events in the Luongo timeline. Namely, the entire 2012 off-season and lockout.

As you must be aware, there are certain windows where Luongo could have been traded. As each one passes by, the value of Luongo plummets. This is because of a couple factors.

A) The cap is dropping to $64M next year.
B) The Canucks are in cap trouble. (They must trade Luongo if they have any intent on continuing their contention).

At each interval, Gillis has demanded much more than the market was willing to accept. Luongo's value was highest in the 2012 off-season, where Gillis had 3 potential suitors in Toronto, Chicago, and Florida. All of which backed out. All of which have found solutions elsewhere. Oops.

How every other GM in the league is looking at this situation is the same. The Canucks have to move Luongo. It's either they move him, or severely cripple any chances of future contention. That leaves Vancouver 3 options: Waive him/buy him out, trade him, or roll with him next year (Imagine the optics on that one? ).

If I'm a GM, why would I give up assets for a goaltender when its a buyers market and it's likely Luongo will be bought out/waived anyway? The answer is, I don't.

Whether Luongo is a good goaltender, or that his cap hit is reasonable, or that Mike Smith is going to command absurd money, or that Bryz has a crappier contract, doesn't make a lick of difference. It's irrelevant to Luongo's situation. The reality, which you have casually dismissed, is that Luongo's contract is a dead man walking. Nobody is going to commit to Luongo for 10 years (No one has forgotten the 2012 playoffs, either), and even if they did, the salary that Vancouver would have to keep, or the salary that would have to be coming back would make trading him redundant in regards to the cap situation Vancouver is facing.

And the kicker? Everyone and their grandma knows the clock strikes 12 for Gillis in the off-season.
Excellent post.

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04-22-2013, 10:07 PM
  #147
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Excellent post.
Not really a good post. Spewing the same tired refrain we have heard for 18 months. Ignores the ability to trade Schneider. Overstates the case that teams would rather play poker because of vancouver being in a corner rather than addressing their own needs.

Vancouver can get the best possible deal for Lou by taking calls on Schneider as well. Eliminates any leverage other teams have if they are willing to do so.

Paradox...can't get the best possible trade for Lou unless they also have Schneider on the block. No brainer.

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04-22-2013, 10:18 PM
  #148
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Not really a good post. Spewing the same tired refrain we have heard for 18 months. Ignores the ability to trade Schneider. Overstates the case that teams would rather play poker because of vancouver being in a corner rather than addressing their own needs.

Vancouver can get the best possible deal for Lou by taking calls on Schneider as well. Eliminates any leverage other teams have if they are willing to do so.

Paradox...can't get the best possible trade for Lou unless they also have Schneider on the block. No brainer.
They will address their needs, once he's bought out and can be had for a reasonable term and no loss of assets.

And I'm not sure how you're going to leverage anything by putting Schneider on the block. Do you just plan on pulling a switcharoo and hoping they don't notice it's Luongo coming back and not Schneider? How will taking calls on Schneider even help your cap situation anyway?

That's some master plan you got going on.

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04-23-2013, 12:10 AM
  #149
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All it would take is one bold GM who wouldn't be able to attract him to their franchise to pick him up...then that plan would fall apart.
So once he's on waivers, and everybody figures that's the prelude to the buy out, how does this bold GM convince his owner to cough up all that dough for all that length of time? If I were the owner, I'd tell my GM that I'd prefer to keep that money now and take my chances signing Luongo once his contract is no longer a factor. And if I miss out on him, somebody offers more, well, there are other fish in the sea. That late in the game why would any owner offer to let Vancouver off the hook by paying for Gillis' mistake?

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04-23-2013, 12:12 AM
  #150
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Keep Schneider.. Luongo is a proven choker

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