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A need for Top 4 right shooting defensemen.

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:14 AM
  #26
Mess
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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
All of you think Morgan Rielly won't make the team next season are going to look stupid in a few months.
Leaf Nation does have high hopes for Morgan Rielly eventually.

However who is he going to replace Jake Gardiner who is struggling defensively under Carlyle's system?

Unfortunately neither Rielly nor Gardiner (both LH shots) are that right-handed defensive dmen that is being sought here for Leafs top 4 needs.

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04-20-2013, 11:16 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
JVR simply replaced Clarke MacArthur who put up 20+ goal 55-65 points seasons playing in the top 6. MacArthur was picked up for free off the scrap heap originally.

Now the Leafs are looking to replace Luke Schenn as he is exactly what the Leafs need a young, right handed, big, physical, hard hitting, shot blocking defender capable of playing top 4 minutes and partnering with an offensive partner giving the pairing balance.

Leafs have to seek such a player via trade because they don't appear to have his replacement internally.

Perhaps JVR can be used as bait to acquire this much needed top 4 dman now? As RH Top 4 dmen are in big demand around the league and costly to acquire as everyone wants them.
You're forgetting that Schenn is slow as hell. He's big, he's strong, he's tough, but he's simply not mobile enough to be a anything more than a 4-6 kind of guy in today's NHL.

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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
All of you think Morgan Rielly won't make the team next season are going to look stupid in a few months.
I see you've got some pretty strong opinions.

To the poster above me: protip, don't flame the mods

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Old
04-20-2013, 11:17 AM
  #28
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How does Mark Streit sound? UFA, plays the right side, at least, I've seen him play it a few times. He is 35 though, going on 36 this upcoming December. On a short term deal, he could be good with Phaneuf.

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04-20-2013, 11:25 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
You're forgetting that Schenn is slow as hell. He's big, he's strong, he's tough, but he's simply not mobile enough to be a anything more than a 4-6 kind of guy in today's NHL.
Agreed foot speed is a valid concern, but skating can be improved on.

However all the other attributes big, strong, physical, hard hitting, shoot blocking, RH shooting bundled together in a top 4 are not easy to come by in today's NHL either to find a player that has all those and a great skater as well.

Shea Weber types simply do not grow on trees, and we witnessed the kind of $$ such players are worth. So based on demand for RH dmen and the rarity of such players makes them difficult to come by in trade and would be very costly in assets to obtain. IMO

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04-20-2013, 11:38 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Agreed foot speed is a valid concern, but skating can be improved on.

However all the other attributes big, strong, physical, hard hitting, shoot blocking, RH shooting bundled together in a top 4 are not easy to come by in today's NHL either to find a player that has all those and a great skater as well.

Shea Weber types simply do not grow on trees, and we witnessed the kind of $$ such players are worth. So based on demand for RH dmen and the rarity of such players makes them difficult to come by in trade and would be very costly in assets to obtain. IMO
Yeah I hear that man. Schenner also had a pretty decent half-slap shot, similar to Franson's. for a guy that was labelled as defense-only, I was always surprised with the raw offensive potential he had. I always liked the guy; hope he figures it out in Philly.

Draft Ristolainen is really my only solution

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04-20-2013, 11:58 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
How about Kevin Bieksa? If the Canucks fail to make a splash again this season, they may be looking to shake things up. I know the guy gets injured a lot, but he would look fierce next to Dion on the first pairing.
Thoughts?
On second thought, what about Michalek from Phoenix. Great partner for Dion as well. They might need to shed some salary this off-season depending on how the ownership situation turns out.
Oh agreed. Bieska is a pipe dream.

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04-20-2013, 11:59 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
All of you think Morgan Rielly won't make the team next season are going to look stupid in a few months.
I think Morgan Rielly could've made it this year. He's a lot more physically mature than Gardiner. It's not just his mobility but his intelligence on the defensive end is quite strong. However, Nonis may not want to rush him.

Not going to give projections, but I heard a lot of good things in the West Coast. He may possibly be the best pick in the draft as Burke suggested. Regardless, that doesn't really change the fact that we do need a top 4D that's steady on his own end.

Otherwise, we'll have to try Blacker or Percy. Both are much more mobile than Holzer, have size and are stronger defensively. Maybe that could work.

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04-20-2013, 12:15 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Eli View Post
How does Mark Streit sound? UFA, plays the right side, at least, I've seen him play it a few times. He is 35 though, going on 36 this upcoming December. On a short term deal, he could be good with Phaneuf.
Bleh. Could work as a fill in until one of the young guys are ready but this is not ideal in the slightest.

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04-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #34
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Tyler Myers pls.

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04-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
JVR simply replaced Clarke MacArthur who put up 20+ goal 55-65 points seasons playing in the top 6. MacArthur was picked up for free off the scrap heap originally.

Now the Leafs are looking to replace Luke Schenn as he is exactly what the Leafs need a young, right handed, big, physical, hard hitting, shot blocking defender capable of playing top 4 minutes and partnering with an offensive partner giving the pairing balance.

Leafs have to seek such a player via trade because they don't appear to have his replacement internally.

Perhaps JVR can be used as bait to acquire this much needed top 4 dman now? As RH Top 4 dmen are in big demand around the league and costly to acquire as everyone wants them.
JVR for Shenn. Wonder if Philly would add?

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Originally Posted by Lebanese Leaf View Post
All of you think Morgan Rielly won't make the team next season are going to look stupid in a few months.
Reilly shouldn't see the inside of an NHL rink next year without buying a ticket. Absolutely no need to rush this guy since we have plenty of offense from the backend and we still need Gardiner to figure it out

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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Yeah I hear that man. Schenner also had a pretty decent half-slap shot, similar to Franson's. for a guy that was labelled as defense-only, I was always surprised with the raw offensive potential he had. I always liked the guy; hope he figures it out in Philly.

Draft Ristolainen is really my only solution
One can hope he drops that far or we move up

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Old
04-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #36
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The right handed UFA market this coming year is not big on the defensive shutdown type of defender we need with names like Zidlickey, Rozsíval, White, Babchuk etc.

If something is going to happen then the leafs need to trade with one of the teams that are near the cap ceiling - maybe Salo from the Lightening or Boyle from the Sharks.

There are not many RHD and most of the leaf prospects (Reilly, Percy, Finn) are lefties. There is going to be a big backlog getting those leaf handed prospect into the leaf line up.

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04-20-2013, 01:13 PM
  #37
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I've seen rielly many times live this year and this kid WILL be up with the leafs next year. He was embarrassing those WHL kids and any more time there could hurt him. We don't want him developing bad habits. A full nhl season is long. Even if he's our 7th or 8th dman and him and gardiner split games 41/41 or something it would be better for him practicing and learning the pro game.
He could've been the best player out of the draft.

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04-20-2013, 01:20 PM
  #38
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I doubt JVR would be moved really. for the 2nd and 3rd lines it looks like RC is trying to always do something like 1skilled player/1guy with speed/1 grinder so looking at the lineup its no secret that Cmac is expendable but he doesnt have a tonne of value, it would have to be like cmac + B prospect + a 2nd or something to get a chance at anything decent... you have to give to get so maybe cmac + maybe a scott or something and a 2nd makes sense for a like 35 year old who can play 2nd pair

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Old
04-20-2013, 01:30 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Chosen_One View Post
I think Morgan Rielly could've made it this year. He's a lot more physically mature than Gardiner. It's not just his mobility but his intelligence on the defensive end is quite strong. However, Nonis may not want to rush him.

Not going to give projections, but I heard a lot of good things in the West Coast. He may possibly be the best pick in the draft as Burke suggested. Regardless, that doesn't really change the fact that we do need a top 4D that's steady on his own end.

Otherwise, we'll have to try Blacker or Percy. Both are much more mobile than Holzer, have size and are stronger defensively. Maybe that could work.
A teenager is more physically mature than a grown man ? Give your head a shake. He may have more physical upside but maturity is the wrong word.

As usual I could not disagree with Mess more. Trading JVR for a defensive defenseman makes no sense to me. He is a building block. He still has upside, brings welcome size to our forward group and is gradually learning to play more physical. Though I like Luke Schenn I think we got the better player.

Saying we can easily replace him because we got a guy like CMac for nothing overlooks that CMac leaves us wanting and is the 3rd best left winger on the team. We also got lucky with him. I like our chances far better of signing or trading for a defenseman than aquiring a JVR type player.

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04-20-2013, 05:16 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
A teenager is more physically mature than a grown man ? Give your head a shake. He may have more physical upside but maturity is the wrong word.

As usual I could not disagree with Mess more. Trading JVR for a defensive defenseman makes no sense to me. He is a building block. He still has upside, brings welcome size to our forward group and is gradually learning to play more physical. Though I like Luke Schenn I think we got the better player.

Saying we can easily replace him because we got a guy like CMac for nothing overlooks that CMac leaves us wanting and is the 3rd best left winger on the team. We also got lucky with him. I like our chances far better of signing or trading for a defenseman than aquiring a JVR type player.
Have to agree. Defensive D are much more easily attainable than JVRs type. Obyrne and Murray are two examples of such. Regehr is another, whom I think between him and Jackman sum up where Schenn will land in terms of peak. JVRs ceiling is harder to predict; trending up but might be seeing him top out now at the 60 odd pt winger he is. Still, the size and front-of-the-net thing make him more valuable than his stats alone dictate, so comparables with the likes of MacArthur are shortsighted.

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Old
04-20-2013, 07:31 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BlueBaron View Post
A teenager is more physically mature than a grown man ? Give your head a shake. He may have more physical upside but maturity is the wrong word.
I think he's pretty darn matured. His defensive IQ is pretty damn high. Something that Gardiner seriously lacks. My point is that he could have played this season, but we're not rushing him.

Nothing wrong with that.

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04-20-2013, 07:42 PM
  #42
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I agree with the need for a top 4 right D, maybe even top 2. I'm not sure about what Vets to target, but as far as young players Ristolainen and Pulock from this draft, and I've been pumping Madison Bowey's tires for some time as a possible late first rounder.

In our system there's Holzer, Blacker, Granberg, and Nillson. If Granberg plays anything like he was described at the draft (i.e. a tougher, grittier Gunnarson) then I can definitely see him being among our top 4. I also think Holzer is a lot better than he showed this season with the Leafs when he was forced top play top pairing minutes, he's more of a 2nd unit or 3rd pairing.

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04-20-2013, 08:26 PM
  #43
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Not saying any of these names are available but they're top 4ish RD.

Kevin Klein - Nashville
Jon Blum - Nashville
Justin Faulk - Carolina
Jamie McBain - Carolina
Erik Johnson - Colorado
Tyler Myers - Buffalo
Erik Gudbranson - Florida
Dalton Prout - Columbus (Thanks Don Cherry )
Stephane Robidas - Dallas
Travis Hamonic - New York
Brent Burns - San Jose
Kevin Shattenkirk - St. Louis
Roman Polak - St. Louis
John Carlson - Washington
Zach Bogosian - Winnipeg

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04-20-2013, 08:30 PM
  #44
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I don't think we'll be able to find a RHD. We really need to acquire some more defensively responsible defenceman. Despite our system being defence-friendly, we're seeing a number struggling to clear the damn puck. That, and keeping the crease clear is required as well.

Just look at Boston, New York or Ottawa's defensive core. That's something we're going to require in order to contend.

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04-20-2013, 09:12 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
JVR simply replaced Clarke MacArthur who put up 20+ goal 55-65 points seasons playing in the top 6. MacArthur was picked up for free off the scrap heap originally.

Now the Leafs are looking to replace Luke Schenn as he is exactly what the Leafs need a young, right handed, big, physical, hard hitting, shot blocking defender capable of playing top 4 minutes and partnering with an offensive partner giving the pairing balance.

Leafs have to seek such a player via trade because they don't appear to have his replacement internally.

Perhaps JVR can be used as bait to acquire this much needed top 4 dman now? As RH Top 4 dmen are in big demand around the league and costly to acquire as everyone wants them.
I think getting a veteran would suffice over trading JvR. JvR gives us a top 6 with two quality lines that can score. While we need to get a RHD that can play with an offensive dman, he doesnt neccessarily have to be young. It could be a Morris or Robidas vetern type, or a Klein type. With Klein he would be with the team for a longer period of time, and with the other two they would be shorter term solution.

As long as we don't come in to next season with Liles-O'Byrne as our second pairing, they may describe the offensive and defensive dman combo we are looking for, but they are not of the same quality we are looking for. Right now this team has one top four pairing and two bottoms pairings. That is one thing that needs to be fixed this summer. The Fraser-Franson pairing is the better of the two, and the one that should stay.They have chemistry and give us good depth options.

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04-20-2013, 09:18 PM
  #46
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If Tyler Myers is available what would it take to get him?

Who is Dalton Prout?

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Old
04-20-2013, 09:42 PM
  #47
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If Tyler Myers is available what would it take to get him?

Who is Dalton Prout?
I don't think he's a top 4 guy. He does skate quite well and that grit of his would help us a lot. If he was paired with Gardiner, it could work.

Tyler Myer is 23, I'm not sure if the Sabres are willing to trade him. I really wish we acquired him. We would have not rushed him and he'd be thriving right now.

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04-20-2013, 09:56 PM
  #48
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Uhh well we have a potential superstar d man in the making at Morgan Rielly, hes gonna have to make the team soon..Screw the handedness, Franson is a righty whos only whole in his game is maybe a little too slow to play top pairing minutes. If he gains a little bit of footspeed then he could easily be top pair with Phaneuf. But Rielly and Gardiner are both going to be on the team soon. We have the speed and rush joiners in Rielly and Gardiner, the shots and physical guys in Phaneuf and Franson... Then we have the pure physical guys in ROB and Fraser and the steady positional guys like Kostka and Gunner... Our defense is in good shape, that is if Franson can prove to be good enough to take top pair minutes, or Rielly and Gardiner, im sure one of those 3 will be able to handle top pairing minutes with DIon.

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04-20-2013, 09:58 PM
  #49
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Thinking of trading JVR is insane... His potential is so high. He has all the tools to become an offensive monster. Great shot, great speed, great size, good hands. He works hard one summer in the gym and starts to really focus and he will become a beast of a goal scorer.

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04-20-2013, 10:11 PM
  #50
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^ I wouldn't trade JVR, but Franson is definitely not defensively aware to be Phaneuf's partner. Besides, a Gardiner - Rielly pairing wouldn't be that effective either. Not against the teams in our division never mind after the league re-alignment.

If we don't trade for a defensively responsible top 4D, we're going to employ our prospects. Randy was utilizing Holzer and Kostka, and will probably doing that next season. I'm guessing Blacker or Finn may be given a chance.

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