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Old
05-02-2013, 07:01 PM
  #176
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Kassian is probably 2 years away from being a legit top 6 forward.

He's top 6 now because without Booth we only have 8 top 9 forwards & he has the biggest upside of the rest.

Ideally he should spend a year as a regular 4th line forward & learn how to play sound defence.

He has great offensive instincts, he just needs to learn positioning & get some confidence in his defensive game.

Once he can be trusted defensively his all around game should improve a ton.

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05-02-2013, 07:01 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Every time Kassian has played with Henrik, he has looked markedly better. Funny how if you play him with a playmaking C, he looks better. Yet, AV has refused to try him with Roy... #ExcellentCoach
You put a guy like Cody with Weise and Ebbett and he may have 4 points the entire season if lucky. Especially with no PP time.

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05-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #178
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im not sold on ZK,,im starting to think what we are seeing is what his ceiling is.
Problem with him is he is lazy. Not sure you can learn to work hard. You probably can but you have to turn your mind to it. Hopefully a strong mentor gets through to him to let him know how damn lazy he looks and can get him to buy in to working hard.

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05-02-2013, 07:15 PM
  #179
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If we let Raymond walk it's possible the Canucks pick up Torres in the off-season. He may not be the best linemate for Schroeder though if we want to role three scoring lines.

Does anybody have a decent list of prospective UFA's and players on the trading block in the offseason? Unfortunately losing cable has made me completely ignorant of most teams around the league.

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05-02-2013, 07:24 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
If we let Raymond walk it's possible the Canucks pick up Torres in the off-season. He may not be the best linemate for Schroeder though if we want to role three scoring lines.

Does anybody have a decent list of prospective UFA's and players on the trading block in the offseason? Unfortunately losing cable has made me completely ignorant of most teams around the league.
I'm all for rolling 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines, but it's pretty clear MG wants to use the 4th line as a utility line. The 4th line has always sucked since he's been here. Minus the short period after acquiring Lapierre and before Manny's injury.

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05-02-2013, 07:28 PM
  #181
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I'm all for rolling 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines, but it's pretty clear MG wants to use the 4th line as a utility line. The 4th line has always sucked since he's been here. Minus the short period after acquiring Lapierre and before Manny's injury.
That's just a waste of a line IMO. Look no further than what the blues' 4th line did to LA last game as an example of why rolling four lines is important.

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05-02-2013, 07:31 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Patches View Post
If we let Raymond walk it's possible the Canucks pick up Torres in the off-season. He may not be the best linemate for Schroeder though if we want to role three scoring lines.

Does anybody have a decent list of prospective UFA's and players on the trading block in the offseason? Unfortunately losing cable has made me completely ignorant of most teams around the league.
It's tough to really speculate on who will be available in the off-season as I anticipate there will be several players bought out. Dany Heatley for example will be a guy who I anticipate will be bought out.

If we are bounced in the first round this year, I say we need to make wholesale changes in the offseason. No more garbage "well we just need some tinkering" because with the way this team has played for TWO years now it really should be clear that the group we have simply is not good enough.

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Old
05-02-2013, 07:32 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
I'm all for rolling 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines, but it's pretty clear MG wants to use the 4th line as a utility line. The 4th line has always sucked since he's been here. Minus the short period after acquiring Lapierre and before Manny's injury.
I don't think we have the personnel to roll 4 lines to be honest. Load up the 4th line with a goon (Sestito?), an extra defenseman (Ballard), and an extra centerman who can win face-offs (please bring back Malhotra even, just not Ebbett because he can't win face-offs).

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Old
05-02-2013, 07:54 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't think we have the personnel to roll 4 lines to be honest. Load up the 4th line with a goon (Sestito?), an extra defenseman (Ballard), and an extra centerman who can win face-offs (please bring back Malhotra even, just not Ebbett because he can't win face-offs).

IMO unless the Sedins are willing to take a pay cut and be paid like second liners I think it's time they go back to Modo, I understand finding a new first line isn't an easy task but It's hard to say what we should do now as I think next year will be a write off (barring a new coach waking them up) and the development of our prospects could make their absence a less daunting task. Right now the problem with our prospects so far is that most of them project to being good second liners. If we plan to move the Sedins' then I think signing Roy should become a priority.

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05-02-2013, 07:54 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
That's just a waste of a line IMO. Look no further than what the blues' 4th line did to LA last game as an example of why rolling four lines is important.
No argument from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I don't think we have the personnel to roll 4 lines to be honest. Load up the 4th line with a goon (Sestito?), an extra defenseman (Ballard), and an extra centerman who can win face-offs (please bring back Malhotra even, just not Ebbett because he can't win face-offs).
Not right now. It's something we need to have though.

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Old
05-02-2013, 07:54 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Castle1 View Post
Problem with him is he is lazy. Not sure you can learn to work hard. You probably can but you have to turn your mind to it. Hopefully a strong mentor gets through to him to let him know how damn lazy he looks and can get him to buy in to working hard.
Lazy? This is a guy that worked as hard or harder than Hodgson did this past offseason. He went everywhere the Canucks sent him (which was a hell of a lot of places) and did his own extra training. Every coach has raved about his work ethic. But sure — he's lazy.

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Old
05-02-2013, 07:58 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Patches View Post
IMO unless the Sedins are willing to take a pay cut and be paid like second liners I think it's time they go back to Modo, I understand finding a new first line isn't an easy task but It's hard to say what we should do now as I think next year will be a write off (barring a new coach waking them up) and the development of our prospects could make their absence a less daunting task. Right now the problem with our prospects so far is that most of them project to being good second liners. If we plan to move the Sedins' then I think signing Roy should become a priority.
I agree that next year is likely a write-off. I think AV will be fired this year, we'll get a new coach for next year, and we'll end up bounced in round 1 or 2 in the playoffs. Our offense will be a bit better, but the Sedins will continue their decline. At that point they become UFA's, and it would be time to part ways. Unless they're willing to sign for $3-4M each, I don't see why we would tie up so much money in them when they aren't the answer. I'm not saying we will continue being a playoff team without them, because I think we would take a step back in that regard, but we can hopefully rebuild the foundation of this team the right way. The foundation we have has way too many cracks to endure a sturdy playoff run.

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Old
05-02-2013, 08:04 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I agree that next year is likely a write-off. I think AV will be fired this year, we'll get a new coach for next year, and we'll end up bounced in round 1 or 2 in the playoffs. Our offense will be a bit better, but the Sedins will continue their decline. At that point they become UFA's, and it would be time to part ways. Unless they're willing to sign for $3-4M each, I don't see why we would tie up so much money in them when they aren't the answer. I'm not saying we will continue being a playoff team without them, because I think we would take a step back in that regard, but we can hopefully rebuild the foundation of this team the right way. The foundation we have has way too many cracks to endure a sturdy playoff run.
I agree with most of your assessment barring the Sedins produce at a PPG for these playoffs but we still get eliminated early. (I still think the coaching and current system is our biggest problem) But the problem with letting the Sedins walk is we are then missing the most important part of any team. Neither Kesler or Roy are first line centers, our winger depth is putrid and Burrows isn't a first line winger without the Sedins. So unless by some chance (again, hard to predict without knowing what the market is like) we pick up a first line via trades and free agency, we may be forced to do a somewhat significant rebuild.

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05-02-2013, 08:32 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Patches View Post
I agree with most of your assessment barring the Sedins produce at a PPG for these playoffs but we still get eliminated early. (I still think the coaching and current system is our biggest problem) But the problem with letting the Sedins walk is we are then missing the most important part of any team. Neither Kesler or Roy are first line centers, our winger depth is putrid and Burrows isn't a first line winger without the Sedins. So unless by some chance (again, hard to predict without knowing what the market is like) we pick up a first line via trades and free agency, we may be forced to do a somewhat significant rebuild.
I'm okay with that. If we can pick up kids like Reinhart, Clarke, Ho-Sang, McDavid, Barzal, and Strome (obviously not ALL of them) then it would be worth it.

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05-02-2013, 08:40 PM
  #190
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Sorry how don't we have 4th line personnel, but San Jose does?

Burish is beyond overrated. He's not a good hockey player.

Are we really saying Weise and Ebbett are that much worse than Andrew Desjardins?

That is ridiculous. Players plays better when they get regular shifts.

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05-02-2013, 08:43 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
Sorry how don't we have 4th line personnel, but San Jose does?

Burish is beyond overrated. He's not a good hockey player.

Are we really saying Weise and Ebbett are that much worse than Andrew Desjardins?

That is ridiculous. Players plays better when they get regular shifts.
In the case of Ebbett at least, most definitely.

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Old
05-02-2013, 08:50 PM
  #192
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I'm okay with that. If we can pick up kids like Reinhart, Clarke, Ho-Sang, McDavid, Barzal, and Strome (obviously not ALL of them) then it would be worth it.
Okay. I wish I could contribute more to the 'how' aspect but my ignorance of the rest of the league makes it sort of difficult. I do agree that it would be worth it although it may require a different GM. I also think we have a decent young group and I would like Garrison to be kept.

Garrison, Schroeder, Gaunce, Jensen, Kassian, Tanev, and Corrado all have a chance to fill in anywhere from 1-3rd line duty and mid pairings (most likely 2-3line and 3-6 defenseman) while Lain, Mallet, and Archiblad all have potential to fill bottom roles. Anything could happen though


Last edited by Plebeian: 05-02-2013 at 08:56 PM.
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05-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #193
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Okay. I wish I could contribute more to the 'how' aspect but my ignorance of the rest of the league makes it sort of difficult. I do agree that it would be worth it although it may require a different GM.
It would require an Edmonton like rebuild, and we'd only be able to get one name from the first half of my list, and one name from the second (absolute fantasy would be both Reinhart and McDavid).

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05-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #194
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Gillis should be able to build a great supporting cast even with the Sedins making 6mil each. Look at all the wasted cap space on this team.

Luongo
Ballard
Booth
Raymond
Malhotra


cut the fat and get some legit top 6 wingers on this team. Sending the Sedins packing and we are ****ed because there are no replacements.. terrible idea.

Tanev and Corrado should allow us to save even more money on D. Trade Edler for a top 6 winger.


Last edited by PoolChamp: 05-02-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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05-02-2013, 09:00 PM
  #195
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Gillis should be able to build a great supporting cast even with the Sedins making 6mil each. Look at all the wasted cap space on this team.

Luongo
Ballard
Booth
Raymond
Malhotra


cut the fat and get some legit top 6 wingers on this team. Sending the Sedins packing and we are ****ed because there are no replacements.. terrible idea.
I think next year will be the last push for a cup with the Sedins as the driving force of the team. After their contract is up, where we go next will be up to them because I think keeping them as our go to playoff guys will be a mistake after that. We all agree there are no replacements which is why we were discussing a rebuild (not saying it's ideal, but it's worth looking at)

EDIT: I also believe that if we are going to win a cup with the Sedins' then we will need to roll three scoring lines and a fourth line for checking.

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05-02-2013, 09:08 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Gillis should be able to build a great supporting cast even with the Sedins making 6mil each. Look at all the wasted cap space on this team.

Luongo
Ballard
Booth
Raymond
Malhotra


cut the fat and get some legit top 6 wingers on this team. Sending the Sedins packing and we are ****ed because there are no replacements.. terrible idea.
yeah i agree.
Those 5+
Ebbet Sestito Barker

This team isn't in need of, or about to get a serious overhaul.

I heard Iginla might want to come play for the Canucks next year, might look good with the Sedins

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05-02-2013, 09:09 PM
  #197
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I think next year will be the last push for a cup with the Sedins as the driving force of the team. After their contract is up, where we go next will be up to them because I think keeping them as our go to playoff guys will be a mistake after that. We all agree there are no replacements which is why we were discussing a rebuild (not saying it's ideal, but it's worth looking at)
I disagree with this rebuild talk. Rebuilding is a ****ing nightmare, ask coiler fans about that. The Sedins are basically pure play makers (and will continue to be for a long time) but we don't have any shooters to pull the trigger. it has been this way for how long now? I mean really, get some shooters on this team. look how much better we were with Salo, and Ehrhoff. Imagine if we had legit shooters on the wing in the top 6. It would be like night and day IMO.

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05-02-2013, 09:10 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patches View Post
I think next year will be the last push for a cup with the Sedins as the driving force of the team. After their contract is up, where we go next will be up to them because I think keeping them as our go to playoff guys will be a mistake after that. We all agree there are no replacements which is why we were discussing a rebuild (not saying it's ideal, but it's worth looking at)

EDIT: I also believe that if we are going to win a cup with the Sedins' then we will need to roll three scoring lines and a fourth line for checking.
The Sedins have said after their current contracts run out they'd like to do 1 year deals at a reduced price.

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05-02-2013, 09:14 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by PoolChamp View Post
Gillis should be able to build a great supporting cast even with the Sedins making 6mil each. Look at all the wasted cap space on this team.

Luongo
Ballard
Booth
Raymond
Malhotra


cut the fat and get some legit top 6 wingers on this team. Sending the Sedins packing and we are ****ed because there are no replacements.. terrible idea.
It's not a terrible idea to try to get a future franchise player by tanking, given this teams lack of a future.

But on the topic of cutting the fat, how about something like this for next season?

Sedin (6.1) - Sedin (6.1) - Burrows (4.5)
Higgins (2.5) - Roy* (5) - Kesler (5)
Torres* (1.75) - Couturier* (1.375) - Hansen (1.35)
McGratton* (1) - Lapierre (1.1) - Kassian (0.87)
Nystrom* (0.75)

Offense: $37.395M

Hamhuis (4.5) - Bieksa (4.6)
Garrison (4.6) - Tanev (1.35)
Redden (2) - Corrado (0.6)
Hannan (0.75) - Sanguinetti (0.85)

Defense: $19.25M

Schneider (4)
Lack (0.75)

Team: $61.395M

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05-02-2013, 09:22 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
It's not a terrible idea to try to get a future franchise player by tanking, given this teams lack of a future.

But on the topic of cutting the fat, how about something like this for next season?

Sedin (6.1) - Sedin (6.1) - Burrows (4.5)
Higgins (2.5) - Roy* (5) - Kesler (5)
Torres* (1.75) - Couturier* (1.375) - Hansen (1.35)
McGratton* (1) - Lapierre (1.1) - Kassian (0.87)
Nystrom* (0.75)

Offense: $37.395M

Hamhuis (4.5) - Bieksa (4.6)
Garrison (4.6) - Tanev (1.35)
Redden (2) - Corrado (0.6)
Hannan (0.75) - Sanguinetti (0.85)

Defense: $19.25M

Schneider (4)
Lack (0.75)

Team: $61.395M
It looks a hell of a lot better than now. Trading Edler for Couturier would be great for now and the future. I would still like to see Higgins replaced with a top 6 sniper if possible.. but now I'm probably being greedy.

I would also put Kesler with the Sedins full time. If he doesnt like it trade him for a legit winger. he should be traded anywyas because he's always injured.

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