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NHL 2013 Draft || Episode III: Revenge of the Seth || Avs win the draft lottery

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Old
04-22-2013, 04:50 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Does Stastny want to stay or does he try the free agency waters if he is converted to a 3rd line center here? There is also the issue about the $. How much are we ready to play a 3rd line center? How much is he ready to drop down from his current 6.6M?
Thus the "want" part. If he or O'Reilly can't come to terms on extensions over the summer, we need start to preparing to move them at the deadline, which of course changes everything.

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04-22-2013, 04:51 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by RobinDIF View Post
Does Stastny want to stay or does he try the free agency waters if he is converted to a 3rd line center here? There is also the issue about the $. How much are we ready to play a 3rd line center? How much is he ready to drop down from his current 6.6M?
He wouldn't be a third line center, notice that last night Stastny played with his normal line-mates, and he played with the fourth line wingers as well?

It's a three center system, where all of them see 18-21 minutes a night.

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04-22-2013, 04:55 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
He wouldn't be a third line center, notice that last night Stastny played with his normal line-mates, and he played with the fourth line wingers as well?

It's a three center system, where all of them see 18-21 minutes a night.
I think that was the goal with this setup until ROR holdout impacted the season. With a McLeod-Mitchell-Bordy line that could be thrown out there for 5-8 minutes a game to rest the other 3 centers and provide a good amount of grit. The holdout and early injuries to Landy and Downie just killed it though.

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04-22-2013, 05:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
I think that was the goal with this setup until ROR holdout impacted the season. With a McLeod-Mitchell-Bordy line that could be thrown out there for 5-8 minutes a game to rest the other 3 centers and provide a good amount of grit. The holdout and early injuries to Landy and Downie just killed it though.
Duchene's average TOI/game : 20:57

Stastny's average TOI/game : 19:22

O'Reilly's average TOI/game : 18:29

There is a good reason I used 18-21 minutes a night, it's happening, they're doing it. The winger depth in terms of quality is a separate issue.

One of those three are out there for most of the game, and if you noticed, quite a few times more than one of them were on the ice for defensive zone face-offs in case the other is thrown out.

Even with less overall quality on the wings than we would have, we're still a better team than if Mitchell was the one getting 17 minutes a night as a center. In fact, Mitchell is averaging 16:42 TOI/game but it's mostly as a wing on Duchene's line.

One dumb ass thing Sacco does for whatever reason is having Mitchell take face-offs on the power-play while Duchene is on the ice. Even though Duchene takes the most important face-offs in every situation throughout most of the game.

That crap I don't understand in the least bit. My guess is Sacco thinks Duchene is suppose to be the one picking up the puck and distributing it, but Mitchell has to at the very least come close to winning it or tying up his man, but that does not happen that often.

Just another example of Sacco's ass backwards logic.

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04-22-2013, 05:44 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Duchene's average TOI/game : 20:57

Stastny's average TOI/game : 19:22

O'Reilly's average TOI/game : 18:29

There is a good reason I used 18-21 minutes a night, it's happening, they're doing it. The winger depth in terms of quality is a separate issue.

One of those three are out there for most of the game, and if you noticed, quite a few times more than one of them were on the ice for defensive zone face-offs in case the other is thrown out.

Even with less overall quality on the wings than we would have, we're still a better team than if Mitchell was the one getting 17 minutes a night as a center. In fact, Mitchell is averaging 16:42 TOI/game but it's mostly as a wing on Duchene's line.

One dumb ass thing Sacco does for whatever reason is having Mitchell take face-offs on the power-play while Duchene is on the ice. Even though Duchene takes the most important face-offs in every situation throughout most of the game.

That crap I don't understand in the least bit. My guess is Sacco thinks Duchene is suppose to be the one picking up the puck and distributing it, but Mitchell has to at the very least come close to winning it or tying up his man, but that does not happen that often.

Just another example of Sacco's ass backwards logic.

The problem is that all 3 centers have been in the same lineup for ~18-20 games. The games without one of Stastny and ROR might skew the numbers, but you are right... what we have seen since Stastny is pretty much what the Avs are shooting for from their centers.

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04-22-2013, 06:20 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
The problem is that all 3 centers have been in the same lineup for ~18-20 games. The games without one of Stastny and ROR might skew the numbers, but you are right... what we have seen since Stastny is pretty much what the Avs are shooting for from their centers.
When O'Reilly was out Mitchell was averaging closer to 17 a game as a center, to be honest. O'Reilly didn't change Stastny and Duchene's ice time all that much. I think Stastny lost like a minute or less per game and the same with Duchene.

Duchene was averaging over 21 while O'Reilly was not in the lineup.

I've got Stastny, Duchene, and Mitchell on the fantasy team. So I've been watching all four most of the season fairly close.

With Mitchell mostly playing LW now, our 4th line center is either non existent or makes around 500k. (While Malone was actually getting a few 4th line center shifts, but even then he played LW quite a bit.)

So if you combine the 4th line center and 3rd line center salaries, you get something between 4-6M per year. (1-2M 4th line, 3-4M for the third line center.)

It works out in the end salary wise, then as long as we have one or two wingers that can play center during injuries. We should pretty much always have two top 6 centers unless we are unfortunate enough to have injuries to two of the three.

This is why I think that we'll be fine if Stastny is willing to take between 5-5.5M per year. If he wont take a small pay-cut, then I'm all for moving him. As of now, I'm hoping he will. As well as hoping that management is able to mend fences with O'Reilly and get him locked up longer term for 5M AAV.

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04-22-2013, 06:48 PM
  #82
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I'd love to deal Stastny at the draft for another 1st rounder plus a defenseman, but I doubt he's worth that. I don't expect him to want to take a paycut and stick around if he's being used in the 3rd line center role. If we can get a top 4 defenseman, and sign a guy like Boyd Gordon, I think we'd be alright. If they're planning to put Mitchell in the 3rd line role, than we're screwed.

Of course, who we drafts changes everything. A guy like Barkov can step in immediately or with a little bit of AHL time.

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04-22-2013, 06:53 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by The Mars Volchenkov View Post
I'd love to deal Stastny at the draft for another 1st rounder plus a defenseman, but I doubt he's worth that. I don't expect him to want to take a paycut and stick around if he's being used in the 3rd line center role. If we can get a top 4 defenseman, and sign a guy like Boyd Gordon, I think we'd be alright. If they're planning to put Mitchell in the 3rd line role, than we're screwed.

Of course, who we drafts changes everything. A guy like Barkov can step in immediately or with a little bit of AHL time.
Sigh... This after I just explained how hes (Non of our centers are) not being used as a third line center?

Third line centers get between 13-16 minutes a night. Gordon? Averaging 14:54 a night on a team that is weak at center. ALL THREE OF OUR CENTERS ARE GETTING TOP 6 ICE TIME. IE 18-21 minutes.

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04-22-2013, 06:57 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Sigh... This after I just explained how hes (Non of our centers are) not being used as a third line center?

Third line centers get between 13-16 minutes a night. Gordon? Averaging 14:54 a night on a team that is weak at center. ALL THREE OF OUR CENTERS ARE GETTING TOP 6 ICE TIME. IE 18-21 minutes.
He's still playing a third center role (few offensive zone starts and not the best wingers and tough opposition). He's being held back offensively, which may not be attractive to him going forward.

Ice time wise all three are ok, since they all play PP and PK.

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04-22-2013, 06:58 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Sigh... This after I just explained how hes (Non of our centers are) not being used as a third line center?

Third line centers get between 13-16 minutes a night. Gordon? Averaging 14:54 a night on a team that is weak at center. ALL THREE OF OUR CENTERS ARE GETTING TOP 6 ICE TIME. IE 18-21 minutes.
It isn't just about ice time alone (though I agree they are getting enough)... Stastny has gotten an absurdly low number of offensive zone starts during the season (41%).

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04-22-2013, 07:00 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Sigh... This after I just explained how hes (Non of our centers are) not being used as a third line center?

Third line centers get between 13-16 minutes a night. Gordon? Averaging 14:54 a night on a team that is weak at center. ALL THREE OF OUR CENTERS ARE GETTING TOP 6 ICE TIME. IE 18-21 minutes.
He's being used in mainly a defensive role with weaker wingers than the other two centers. That's 3rd line center on this team. I'm betting some team would sign him for a much different role with better wingers.

And what Gordon is playing is exactly what I'd like. Two lines being used offensively for 20 minutes, and a designated third line. I don't think we can pay 3 centers 15M+ when the rest of the team has issues. That's why I want to trade Stastny for help on defense.

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04-22-2013, 07:04 PM
  #87
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Guys , this thread is about the NHL 2013 Draft.

Thanks

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04-22-2013, 07:15 PM
  #88
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He's still playing a third center role (few offensive zone starts and not the best wingers and tough opposition). He's being held back offensively, which may not be attractive to him going forward.

Ice time wise all three are ok, since they all play PP and PK.
Duchene takes a lot of defensive zone draws, and often plays against the other teams top lines as well.

Stastny isn't being given the 'worst wingers' per say but not the best either.

McGinn is back on his line, and their RW is any one of PJ, Kobasew, and Jones.

So we have Duchene/Parenteau, Landeskog/O'Reilly, and Stastny/McGinn. Which is based more on chemistry IMO than who is being given the best/worst wingers.

Landeskog was used with Stastny for quite some time even after O'Reilly returned. However they didn't do much together at all, that could be because of any number of reasons, but it's the way it went.

Quote:
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Guys , this thread is about the NHL 2013 Draft.

Thanks
Well it started based on where a forward would play if drafted. Sometimes reasoning just needs to be broken a little further for some people. =)

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04-22-2013, 07:58 PM
  #89
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the 3 C's thing is fine and will work well.
but we need to get some wingers around them that can put it in the net and finish.

we need to upgrade the D worse but a winger from this draft that can light it up is no loss either.

still want Jones though.

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04-22-2013, 08:00 PM
  #90
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the 3 C's thing is fine and will work well.
but we need to get some wingers around them that can put it in the net and finish.

we need to upgrade the D worse but a winger from this draft that can light it up is no loss either.

still want Jones though.
Yeah, Jones has never changed from being #1, but I'm preparing myself to be happy with Mackinnon or Drouin. Seeing as the best we're probably going to see is 29th.

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04-22-2013, 09:33 PM
  #91
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Yeah, Jones has never changed from being #1, but I'm preparing myself to be happy with Mackinnon or Drouin. Seeing as the best we're probably going to see is 29th.
don't kill the dream! Edmonton won the damn lotto two years in a row.

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04-22-2013, 11:16 PM
  #92
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Avs are in the drivers seat right now, can't be going crazy and doing anything stupid like winning our last 3 games.

Luckily, we're going to be facing an angry St-Louis team, a Phoenix team that we can never seem to beat and a Minnesota team that is still jockeying for a playoff spot.

I just want us to finish 29th so we draft no worse than 3rd.

Time to call up Kieran Millan.

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04-22-2013, 11:57 PM
  #93
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If the Avs don't get a top 3 pick, this entire season would be a lost cause, and next year will be much of the same.

Tank Watch - April 23th

- Canes win over the Isles (I believe in MIRACLES!)
- Preds win over the Flames (Comon Rinne, do something!)
- Avs lose to the Blues

Given up hope on the Panthers beating out the Avs. Panthers need to win out and Avs need to lose out for us to finish 30th.

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04-23-2013, 12:06 AM
  #94
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If the Avs don't get a top 3 pick, this entire season would be a lost cause, and next year will be much of the same.

Tank Watch - April 23th

- Canes win over the Isles (I believe in MIRACLES!)
- Preds win over the Flames (Comon Rinne, do something!)
- Avs lose to the Blues

Given up hope on the Panthers beating out the Avs. Panthers need to win out and Avs need to lose out for us to finish 30th.
I'd say top 4, Barkov is largely considered NHL ready, and is a big smart impact forward that we could easily use to replace Stastny or could play on the LW side.

Barkov, Landeskog, McGinn down the left side would be sick, and he would complete that top line. I'd love this as a top 9 group if we could pickup Horton.

Barkov - Duchene - Parenteau

Landeskog - O'Reilly - Downie

McGinn - Stastny - Horton

McLeod - Mitchell - Bordy

That would be hard to play against.


Last edited by CobraAcesS: 04-23-2013 at 12:15 AM.
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04-23-2013, 12:22 AM
  #95
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Avs are in the drivers seat right now, can't be going crazy and doing anything stupid like winning our last 3 games.

Luckily, we're going to be facing an angry St-Louis team, a Phoenix team that we can never seem to beat and a Minnesota team that is still jockeying for a playoff spot.

I just want us to finish 29th so we draft no worse than 3rd.

Time to call up Kieran Millan.
Same here.

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04-23-2013, 12:29 AM
  #96
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Barkov's skillset is not really suited to playing the wing. Mac is better at center too, but at least has the tools to possibly be effective there a la Seguin. Not to mention it would be a waste of Barkov's major areas of strength.

He could immediately slot in as our 3C and signal that one of the other guys is getting shipped out but I'd almost rather let him start in the AHL and adapt to the small ice and physicality, especially if we aren't able to immediately clear a spot for him. The FEL is a very different game from the NHL.

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04-23-2013, 12:30 AM
  #97
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Barkov's skillset is not really suited to playing the wing. Mac is better at center too, but at least has the tools to possibly be effective there a la Seguin. Not to mention it would be a waste of Barkov's major areas of strength.

He could immediately slot in as our 3C and signal that one of the other guys is getting shipped out but I'd almost rather let him start in the AHL and adapt to the small ice and physicality, especially if we aren't able to immediately clear a spot for him. The FEL is a very different game from the NHL.
Either way I'd be happy with him, hes been compared to Getzlaf. That's lofty but interesting none the less.

Besides, Duchene knows how to adjust to the LW side. Not saying Duchene should move to LW again, but they could learn to read each-other and play both areas of the ice after a couple years.

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04-23-2013, 12:34 AM
  #98
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Either way I'd be happy with him, hes been compared to Getzlaf. That's lofty but interesting none the less.
I don't think he quite has the hands or the nasty edge of Getzlaf. In terms of big bodied centers I think his skating at this point isn't strong enough to compare him stylistically to Kopitar either. He tends to remind me of modern era Joe Thornton out there, the version with less offense and much stronger two way play than his previous years. Hard to find a perfect comparable though, as it is with all of these kids.

I would definitely be really happy if we drafted him.

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04-23-2013, 12:39 AM
  #99
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I don't think he quite has the hands or the nasty edge of Getzlaf. In terms of big bodied centers I think his skating at this point isn't strong enough to compare him stylistically to Kopitar either. He tends to remind me of modern era Joe Thornton out there, the version with less offense and much stronger two way play than his previous years. Hard to find a perfect comparable though, as it is with all of these kids.

I would definitely be really happy if we drafted him.
I wish Nichushkin's situation was different because I like him as well, but there is no way a team drafts him in the top 5 IMO.

One reason I like Mackinnon the most of the forwards is because of his style, that skating ability combined with his shot and compete level is going to be really dangerous. Mack plays more of a NHL style game than Drouin does IMO.

The scariest thing about Drouin is how much of his offensive ability will translate to the NHL, and hes only broke out this season. He was a point per game player but not anywhere near this level last season.

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04-23-2013, 12:49 AM
  #100
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Earlier in the season when I thought we were going to finish with a 6-10 pick Nichushkin was the guy I really wanted. Unreal skills and physical tools but alas it isn't meant to be.

If we're lucky enough to grab Mackinnon I imagine we'll make room for him rather than play him at wing long term but imagine being able to throw Parenteau, Dutchy, and Mackinnon out there together.

With Drouin I'm just worried he's going to get Skinner'd/Hishon'd.

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