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Couture Emerging as Leader of the Sharks

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Old
04-22-2013, 01:38 PM
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Hatrick Marleau
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Couture Emerging as Leader of the Sharks

http://www.csnbayarea.com/blog/kevin...-sharks-leader


Last edited by SpinTheBlackCircle: 04-22-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: cant post whole articles
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04-22-2013, 02:03 PM
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magic school bus
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I usually hate everything Kurz does, but this is great.

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04-22-2013, 02:56 PM
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hockeyball
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Couture 'gets it', where for instance Seto did not. Couture is all about hockey, his work ethic is phenomenal and in our out of the rink, hockey is his number 1 priority. Couple that with a very impressive hockey IQ and some serious skill and you have an all-star player.

I still don't understand why some people around here think he's not a capable 1st line center. He's not Joe Thornton, who is nearly a generational talent (is as far as passing is concerned) but that's a pretty freaking high bar to set.

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04-22-2013, 03:02 PM
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I don't think Couture can be a PPG+ first line center. Like 65-75 points.

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04-22-2013, 03:03 PM
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do0glas
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technically he is playing as the 1C right now

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04-22-2013, 03:16 PM
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Hatrick Marleau
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Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
technically he is playing as the 1C right now
The line of Havlat Couture Marleau is really good and Couture is a big part of that. It seems that his playmaking and speed have really improved. I used to think he couldn't be a 1C but he proved me wrong. This is the #1 line right now and Couture is the #1C. I'm comfortable having that line go against any line.

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04-22-2013, 03:21 PM
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TheJuxtaposer
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
technically he is playing as the 1C right now
His line's been the best recently, but the Sharks actually vary who's #1C game by game (ice time being the indicator). I really like that they have three lines, three centers, that they're comfortable using as #1C in any situation whenever it's needed.

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04-22-2013, 03:26 PM
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do0glas
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you cant really just go off of ice time for who is the 1C. if the ice leaders are all taking top matchups both offensively and defensively then sure. i havent looked at it though.

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04-22-2013, 03:57 PM
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OrrNumber4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Couture 'gets it', where for instance Seto did not. Couture is all about hockey, his work ethic is phenomenal and in our out of the rink, hockey is his number 1 priority. Couple that with a very impressive hockey IQ and some serious skill and you have an all-star player.

I still don't understand why some people around here think he's not a capable 1st line center. He's not Joe Thornton, who is nearly a generational talent (is as far as passing is concerned) but that's a pretty freaking high bar to set.
I think that is the point. As good as he can be, he's not going to replace Joe Thornton's production. He is a stretch to replace Marleau's production. Thus, he can't be the answer to replacing Thornton and Marleau's production going forwards (at least as a onene swap).

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04-22-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post

I still don't understand why some people around here think he's not a capable 1st line center. He's not Joe Thornton, who is nearly a generational talent (is as far as passing is concerned) but that's a pretty freaking high bar to set.
Who the hell even assumed he'd matchup to Thornton's best? That's ridiculous. He'll be a good 1C he just won't be a complete Thornton replacement.

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04-22-2013, 04:16 PM
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do0glas
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and as weve seen. while thornton is a point machine he changes the system on whatever line he is on. the reduction in points from the 1C could potentially lead to a spread of points that we actually need.

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04-22-2013, 04:38 PM
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hockeyball
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
I think that is the point. As good as he can be, he's not going to replace Joe Thornton's production. He is a stretch to replace Marleau's production. Thus, he can't be the answer to replacing Thornton and Marleau's production going forwards (at least as a onene swap).
He doesn't need to replace Thornton's point production, which is falling anyway. I expect by next year Couture will out-produce Thornton, maybe the year after.

I don't see him as a stretch to replace Marleau at all, He's already doing that. I'm pretty sure Couture is going to end as the best player the Sharks have ever drafted when all is said and done.

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Who the hell even assumed he'd matchup to Thornton's best? That's ridiculous. He'll be a good 1C he just won't be a complete Thornton replacement.
Orrnumber4 just proved that point Everytime Couture as a number 1 center is brought up people invariably say he can't replace Thornton.

He will never put up 90 assists in a season, but neither is Thornton these days. Couture is better in the defensive zone, and frankly better in the neutral zone. He's also a lot more capable of willing a victory than JT who is almost totally dependent on someone to shoot the puck for him. JT can make some amazing passes, and be a huge game changer, but he always struggles when the other team is clamping down defensively and his line mates are not making themselves available or shooting well.

The cliche way to put it is Couture is more capable of clutch play because he is capable of putting pucks in the net all by himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
and as weve seen. while thornton is a point machine he changes the system on whatever line he is on. the reduction in points from the 1C could potentially lead to a spread of points that we actually need.
Yah, I think if the Sharks truly want to re-define themselves it will only happen once Thornton is either gone, or relegated to a non-leadership secondary role. Why I think more and more his time in teal may be coming to an end here.

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04-22-2013, 04:45 PM
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AstroDan
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Good post hockeyball.
I see Couture leading team next year ~75 pts

Side note.
Kurz needs to wash his hair and shave before going on TV in front of the public, but I'm old...

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04-22-2013, 04:57 PM
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do0glas
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astro,

stuff like that is a petpeeve for me too. and when people cant tie their tie right. but im in the military so meh.

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04-22-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
He doesn't need to replace Thornton's point production, which is falling anyway. I expect by next year Couture will out-produce Thornton, maybe the year after.

I don't see him as a stretch to replace Marleau at all, He's already doing that. I'm pretty sure Couture is going to end as the best player the Sharks have ever drafted when all is said and done.

I meant prime Thornton. Thornton, Boyle, and Marleau are fading away, bit by bit. We can see the team's dominance going away with them. In order to get back to that 2006-2011 era, where the Sharks were favorites (if not THE favorite) every year, they're going to need to replace prime Thornton and Marleau's production.


Quote:
Orrnumber4 just proved that point Everytime Couture as a number 1 center is brought up people invariably say he can't replace Thornton.
Because he can't replace Thornton. People who bring up Couture's production invariably say that he is making up for Thornton. You just did it! People want to say that because MAYBE Couture can replace Thornton's post-prime production that Couture is "the answer" going forwards. At best, he is part of the answer. That is the message I want to hammer into your guys' skulls.

Quote:
Yah, I think if the Sharks truly want to re-define themselves it will only happen once Thornton is either gone, or relegated to a non-leadership secondary role. Why I think more and more his time in teal may be coming to an end here.
The Sharks will either have to find someone to replace Thornton, Marleau, and Boyle, or they're going to have to go with a scoring-by-committee.

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04-22-2013, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
I usually hate everything Kurz does, but this is great.
Thanks for the headsup. I was worried Ratto wrote it and didn't want to click.

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04-22-2013, 05:14 PM
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Right now, Couture is comparable to Thornton and Marleau. But my opinion is that Couture's prime will be not be as good as Marleau's and won't come even within throwing distance of Thornton's.

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04-22-2013, 05:29 PM
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Gene Parmesan
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Good post hockeyball.
I see Couture leading team next year ~75 pts

Side note.
Kurz needs to wash his hair and shave before going on TV in front of the public, but I'm old...
He looks like a slob.

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04-22-2013, 05:52 PM
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stator
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Right now, Couture is comparable to Thornton and Marleau. But my opinion is that Couture's prime will be not be as good as Marleau's and won't come even within throwing distance of Thornton's.

Shortened season, but Couture's numbers are climbing up there into Marleau's altitude. Comparing Couture's first three years to Marleau, Couture eclipses Marleau in points and goals in two of those. Same goes to comparing the first three years with Pavelski as well

Marleau has more seasons under his belt, but there is no reason to believe that Couture cannot match that at this point. I do think Couture is going to be the mainstay of the Sharks in the future when Thornton and Marleau is gone. That is if he does not get traded.

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04-22-2013, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
The Sharks will either have to find someone to replace Thornton, Marleau, and Boyle, or they're going to have to go with a scoring-by-committee.
This is true, but the thing is it would be tough to replace Thornton and company. If they can acquire/draft those kinds of players then that's great. But I think the latter option would work well too, and might be more realistic. If you can roll a lineup with lots of offensively talented players (though not 100 pt caliber) that can be its own formula for success.

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04-22-2013, 06:01 PM
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OrrNumber4
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This is true, but the thing is it would be tough to replace Thornton and company. If they can acquire/draft those kinds of players then that's great. But I think the latter option would work well too, and might be more realistic. If you can roll a lineup with lots of offensively talented players (though not 100 pt caliber) that can be its own formula for success.
The thing is, scoring-by-committee rarely works in the playoffs. Inevitably, you need your players to step it up...you will need your Coutures, Kopitars, and Byfugliens to play like Thorntons and Crosbys for that brief period.

LA kind of did that last year. Quick was Vezina level the entire year IIRC, but Doughty, Brown, Kopitar, Carter, etc. all played much better than they had in the RS. Doughty was at a Norris level, Kopitar looked like a borderline franchis player....

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04-22-2013, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by OrrNumber4 View Post
The thing is, scoring-by-committee rarely works in the playoffs. Inevitably, you need your players to step it up...you will need your Coutures, Kopitars, and Byfugliens to play like Thorntons and Crosbys for that brief period.

LA kind of did that last year. Quick was Vezina level the entire year IIRC, but Doughty, Brown, Kopitar, Carter, etc. all played much better than they had in the RS. Doughty was at a Norris level, Kopitar looked like a borderline franchis player....
Gotta agree there. But even though Brown, Carter, and those guys had underwhelming regular seasons they played to their capability in the playoffs. Looking back at the past cup winners, for sure each team had guys step up as well as star players.

Does Boston count as an example of a team that won with scoring by committee? And if so I'm guessing that would be the exception.

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04-22-2013, 06:34 PM
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Shortened season, but Couture's numbers are climbing up there into Marleau's altitude. Comparing Couture's first three years to Marleau, Couture eclipses Marleau in points and goals in two of those. Same goes to comparing the first three years with Pavelski as well

Marleau has more seasons under his belt, but there is no reason to believe that Couture cannot match that at this point. I do think Couture is going to be the mainstay of the Sharks in the future when Thornton and Marleau is gone. That is if he does not get traded.
Marleau was also 18 during his first year...

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04-22-2013, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Right now, Couture is comparable to Thornton and Marleau. But my opinion is that Couture's prime will be not be as good as Marleau's and won't come even within throwing distance of Thornton's.
Depends on the definition of "prime". Back to back 90+ assists? Yeah that's never going to happen. But a 70-80+ point two-way forward that dominates possession? I think that's possible (a lot of people consider those years to be Thornton's best anyway).

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04-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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when couture gets sheltered minutes and doesnt put up the numbers we can end this debate. but he will always be relied upon to impact on both sides of the ice. he will likely get to 75 a couple times in his career as well. he has a bright future and he has improved a lot of his game from last year. i expect him to keep that route and if we see his board play/behind the net vision improve his point totals will reflect that.

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