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Old
05-15-2013, 06:11 PM
  #501
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Just hope they get a lot o-zone starts with O'Reilly's FO%
Yeah for sure. He's like Gagner that way.

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05-15-2013, 06:12 PM
  #502
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Ah, nice.

Not a bad line.
They'll be getting fourth line minutes. Guaranteed.

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05-15-2013, 06:42 PM
  #503
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Yeah for sure. He's like Gagner that way.
You mean a franchise player

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05-15-2013, 07:58 PM
  #504
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Ruff's lack of knowledge about the Western conference is really apparent. Hall and Eberle with nothing minutes, Simmonds and Read in the top 6. No wonder Canada is brutal at the WC.
Only caught the last 10 minutes of the game vs Slovenia, but it looked like Ebs was still getting his regular shift with Duchene. Hall has been getting benched or getting 4th line minutes, but it has nothing to do with Ruff and everything to do with Hall. He completely played his way off that line earlier in the tourney with pointless turnovers (IIRC it was the Swiss game he got benched for the entire 3rd). Read and Simmonds are getting more ice time because they keep things simple.

This is the reason we need a guy like Ruff. Accountability. Buy into the system or sit on the bench. Tippett employs the same style and gets a lot out of a meh roster in Phoenix. I like Hall a lot, but I totally agree with Ruff's approach and hope Hall gains something from it.

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05-15-2013, 08:46 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Only caught the last 10 minutes of the game vs Slovenia, but it looked like Ebs was still getting his regular shift with Duchene. Hall has been getting benched or getting 4th line minutes, but it has nothing to do with Ruff and everything to do with Hall. He completely played his way off that line earlier in the tourney with pointless turnovers (IIRC it was the Swiss game he got benched for the entire 3rd). Read and Simmonds are getting more ice time because they keep things simple.

This is the reason we need a guy like Ruff. Accountability. Buy into the system or sit on the bench. Tippett employs the same style and gets a lot out of a meh roster in Phoenix. I like Hall a lot, but I totally agree with Ruff's approach and hope Hall gains something from it.

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05-15-2013, 09:24 PM
  #506
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But if we were going solely on the concept of turnovers, Giroux has been one of the worst offenders. That's what I gather to be the main point of contention. Well, it is for me. I don't care if Hall gets benched. Suck it up kid. It's the idea that he's the only Canadian player that has made a serious of glaring errors in the tournament.

In the end, he should learn from it though.

If Canada loses, we will find Ruff's house, and destroy his baby's crib. Edmonton stylz.

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05-15-2013, 11:26 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
But if we were going solely on the concept of turnovers, Giroux has been one of the worst offenders. That's what I gather to be the main point of contention. Well, it is for me. I don't care if Hall gets benched. Suck it up kid. It's the idea that he's the only Canadian player that has made a serious of glaring errors in the tournament.

In the end, he should learn from it though.

If Canada loses, we will find Ruff's house, and destroy his baby's crib. Edmonton stylz.
For sure. There seems to be more leeway given to the more experienced guys. Hall isn't one of them unfortunately.

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05-15-2013, 11:34 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Only caught the last 10 minutes of the game vs Slovenia, but it looked like Ebs was still getting his regular shift with Duchene. Hall has been getting benched or getting 4th line minutes, but it has nothing to do with Ruff and everything to do with Hall. He completely played his way off that line earlier in the tourney with pointless turnovers (IIRC it was the Swiss game he got benched for the entire 3rd). Read and Simmonds are getting more ice time because they keep things simple.

This is the reason we need a guy like Ruff. Accountability. Buy into the system or sit on the bench. Tippett employs the same style and gets a lot out of a meh roster in Phoenix. I like Hall a lot, but I totally agree with Ruff's approach and hope Hall gains something from it.
Hall wasn't great that game to be certain. But he is hardly the only player on the team giving the puck away. He was a top 10 scorer in the NHL this season and has the least amount of minutes on the team. That's not accountability. That's not knowing how to use an asset. Read and Simmonds have been getting more ice time all tournament not because they are buying into Ruff's system, but because they are eastern players and he knows them.

I am all for accountability, but the Oilers kids need the chance to play. They certainly won't be winning off the backs of their vets. If Ruff were hired here, Horcoff Jones and Smyth would be in the top 6 and everyone here would be losing their mind.

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05-16-2013, 12:26 AM
  #509
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Surprised more people aren't complaining about Schultz being a likely scratch with Subban arriving. I guess Subban will cover his PP minutes, but Schultz still has twice as many points as any other defenseman on the team. Brodie is also a likley scratch with Dillon making the third pairing.

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05-16-2013, 01:11 AM
  #510
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Surprised more people aren't complaining about Schultz being a likely scratch with Subban arriving. I guess Subban will cover his PP minutes, but Schultz still has twice as many points as any other defenseman on the team. Brodie is also a likley scratch with Dillon making the third pairing.
:shrug:

He has played a lot of games, so I don't mind. If he draws in this game and/or later on, then good. If not, at least he's gained some international experience.

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05-16-2013, 02:07 AM
  #511
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How has he been defensively?

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05-16-2013, 02:10 AM
  #512
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How has he been defensively?
I haven't seen many mistakes. He's been solid. He's only been on something like 14-15 minutes a game.

edit: He could have been better offensively, but I don't think he has the same kind of role as he did in Edmonton.

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05-16-2013, 07:53 AM
  #513
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I haven't seen many mistakes. He's been solid. He's only been on something like 14-15 minutes a game.

edit: He could have been better offensively, but I don't think he has the same kind of role as he did in Edmonton.
To bad he'll be going home tomorrow morning...


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05-16-2013, 08:49 AM
  #514
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
Hall wasn't great that game to be certain. But he is hardly the only player on the team giving the puck away. He was a top 10 scorer in the NHL this season and has the least amount of minutes on the team. That's not accountability. That's not knowing how to use an asset. Read and Simmonds have been getting more ice time all tournament not because they are buying into Ruff's system, but because they are eastern players and he knows them.

I am all for accountability, but the Oilers kids need the chance to play. They certainly won't be winning off the backs of their vets. If Ruff were hired here, Horcoff Jones and Smyth would be in the top 6 and everyone here would be losing their mind.
Hall-Duchene-Eberle was the second line for the first game and a half. Eberle is still on that line with Duchene as far as I know. Schultz has been a mainstay on the PP. Hall was given a good opportunity early and didn't make the most of it. This isn't the Oilers where all is forgotten by the next game because we have a limited amount of talent on our roster. This is Team Canada in a "show me" year where it is an audition for the Olympics. Guys like Jordan Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Jeff Skinner and Matt Read have all had a go on the 4th line. Read worked his way into Hall's spot on the 2nd line and they looked better because of it.

Giroux has turned the puck over his fair share but he has created a lot more as well. It's also about where the turnovers occur. Hall has had trouble gaining the blue line, either going off-side, or turning it over right at the blue line where most odd man rushes occur in transition. Giroux is trying things down low where his teammates have time to recover.

There is no way if Ruff was coaching here that Smyth, Horc, etc would play in the top 6 because not only do they take bad penalties and turn the puck over, they don't have the recovery speed to get back in the play. On Team Canada there are options, the Oilers - not so much. It's up to Hall to make the most of his minutes and work his way back up.

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05-16-2013, 09:08 AM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Roof Daddy View Post
Hall-Duchene-Eberle was the second line for the first game and a half. Eberle is still on that line with Duchene as far as I know. Schultz has been a mainstay on the PP. Hall was given a good opportunity early and didn't make the most of it. This isn't the Oilers where all is forgotten by the next game because we have a limited amount of talent on our roster. This is Team Canada in a "show me" year where it is an audition for the Olympics. Guys like Jordan Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Jeff Skinner and Matt Read have all had a go on the 4th line. Read worked his way into Hall's spot on the 2nd line and they looked better because of it.

Giroux has turned the puck over his fair share but he has created a lot more as well. It's also about where the turnovers occur. Hall has had trouble gaining the blue line, either going off-side, or turning it over right at the blue line where most odd man rushes occur in transition. Giroux is trying things down low where his teammates have time to recover.

There is no way if Ruff was coaching here that Smyth, Horc, etc would play in the top 6 because not only do they take bad penalties and turn the puck over, they don't have the recovery speed to get back in the play. On Team Canada there are options, the Oilers - not so much. It's up to Hall to make the most of his minutes and work his way back up.
Pretty much. Hall on Team Canada is similar to Omark on the Oilers.

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05-16-2013, 09:45 AM
  #516
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Surprised more people aren't complaining about Schultz being a likely scratch with Subban arriving. I guess Subban will cover his PP minutes, but Schultz still has twice as many points as any other defenseman on the team. Brodie is also a likley scratch with Dillon making the third pairing.
I fully expect Canada to lose today to sweden. Ruff is just a bad coach.

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Hall-Duchene-Eberle was the second line for the first game and a half. Eberle is still on that line with Duchene as far as I know. Schultz has been a mainstay on the PP. Hall was given a good opportunity early and didn't make the most of it. This isn't the Oilers where all is forgotten by the next game because we have a limited amount of talent on our roster. This is Team Canada in a "show me" year where it is an audition for the Olympics. Guys like Jordan Staal, Ryan O'Reilly, Jeff Skinner and Matt Read have all had a go on the 4th line. Read worked his way into Hall's spot on the 2nd line and they looked better because of it.

Giroux has turned the puck over his fair share but he has created a lot more as well. It's also about where the turnovers occur. Hall has had trouble gaining the blue line, either going off-side, or turning it over right at the blue line where most odd man rushes occur in transition. Giroux is trying things down low where his teammates have time to recover.

There is no way if Ruff was coaching here that Smyth, Horc, etc would play in the top 6 because not only do they take bad penalties and turn the puck over, they don't have the recovery speed to get back in the play. On Team Canada there are options, the Oilers - not so much. It's up to Hall to make the most of his minutes and work his way back up.
I don't know what you've been watching but I haven't seen Hall on the PP this tournament. Ebs got some time early I think but nothing since then. And Hall - Duch - Eberle has never been the 2nd line. Staal, Staal Simmonds has been in terms of ice time and PP time the whole tournament.

We obviously aren't going to agree. You like Ruff, I think he has no knowledge of the west(which he's pretty much admitted) and would be an absolutely horrible coach for us. I will leave it at that.

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Pretty much. Hall on Team Canada is similar to Omark on the Oilers.
The 3rd highest scoring LW in the league this year and highest scoring Canadian LW that was available for the tournament is the same as Omark? Ok then.

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05-16-2013, 09:56 AM
  #517
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I fully expect Canada to lose today to sweden. Ruff is just a bad coach.



I don't know what you've been watching but I haven't seen Hall on the PP this tournament. Ebs got some time early I think but nothing since then. And Hall - Duch - Eberle has never been the 2nd line. Staal, Staal Simmonds has been in terms of ice time and PP time the whole tournament.

We obviously aren't going to agree. You like Ruff, I think he has no knowledge of the west(which he's pretty much admitted) and would be an absolutely horrible coach for us. I will leave it at that.



The 3rd highest scoring LW in the league this year and highest scoring Canadian LW that was available for the tournament is the same as Omark? Ok then.
Yes, yes it is. Team Canada has other options, just like the Oilers. This is a tournament, Ruff can't afford to be playing players that he doesn't trust.

Ruff isn't the problem. Edmonton fans thinking that the best player on a lotto team is flawless is the problem.

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05-16-2013, 10:59 AM
  #518
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Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I fully expect Canada to lose today to sweden. Ruff is just a bad coach.



I don't know what you've been watching but I haven't seen Hall on the PP this tournament. Ebs got some time early I think but nothing since then. And Hall - Duch - Eberle has never been the 2nd line. Staal, Staal Simmonds has been in terms of ice time and PP time the whole tournament.

We obviously aren't going to agree. You like Ruff, I think he has no knowledge of the west(which he's pretty much admitted) and would be an absolutely horrible coach for us. I will leave it at that.



The 3rd highest scoring LW in the league this year and highest scoring Canadian LW that was available for the tournament is the same as Omark? Ok then.

No kidding. It's clearly just Ruff not doing due diligence and understanding the strengths of his players and making lines that work.

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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Yes, yes it is. Team Canada has other options, just like the Oilers. This is a tournament, Ruff can't afford to be playing players that he doesn't trust.

Ruff isn't the problem. Edmonton fans thinking that the best player on a lotto team is flawless is the problem.
I'm sure Read and Ladd are better options in top 6 than Hall right? As mentioned earlier by many, the issue is Ruff is just using Hall as an example when Giroux is just as at fault. Likewise with Duchene and his constant turnovers as well albeit less glaring as they tend to be well in in the offensive zone.

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05-16-2013, 11:07 AM
  #519
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Duchene can be just as frustrating as Hemsky holding onto the puck so long that he is forced to give it away. Hall and Duchene both want the puck which makes for bad line mates. I also noticed that the line really could not get a cycle going even with possession in the offensive zone.

After this tournament I would not hire Ruff as the head coach.

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05-16-2013, 11:12 AM
  #520
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Duchene can be just as frustrating as Hemsky holding onto the puck so long that he is forced to give it away. Hall and Duchene both want the puck which makes for bad line mates. I also noticed that the line really could not get a cycle going even with possession in the offensive zone.

After this tournament I would not hire Ruff as the head coach.
That's the argument most of us have been saying. Neither player can coexist because they are redundant; Ebs works because, like on the Oil, he's usually the trailer with the shot.

All those saying Ruff is just holding Hall accountable just don't realize it's not only Hall that isn't "working", a whole bunch of the players aren't meshing.

I do have a feeling Ruff will be hired by the Avs though

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05-16-2013, 12:09 PM
  #521
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Yes, yes it is. Team Canada has other options, just like the Oilers. This is a tournament, Ruff can't afford to be playing players that he doesn't trust.

Ruff isn't the problem. Edmonton fans thinking that the best player on a lotto team is flawless is the problem.
Which LWs on this version of team Canada would you play ahead of Hall? I never said Hall was flawless. But is he a better top 6 LW option then Ladd or Read? Most certainly.

Ruff doesn't trust players that he doesn't know. He doesn't know anyone in the west and said so around the start of the tournament. Ruff is the problem.

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05-16-2013, 12:30 PM
  #522
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I fully expect Canada to lose today to sweden. Ruff is just a bad coach.
Isn't this a really premature assessment?

If Canada won the WHC, would you still hold to the same opinion?

Or is just based on how Ruff has utilized Hall?

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05-16-2013, 12:59 PM
  #523
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Isn't this a really premature assessment?

If Canada won the WHC, would you still hold to the same opinion?

Or is just based on how Ruff has utilized Hall?
Yes, the same way I don't judge Steve Mason or Roberto Luongo as big game goalies because they won WJ and Olympic Gold respectively. Sometimes, guys are just "there"

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05-16-2013, 01:14 PM
  #524
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Yes, the same way I don't judge Steve Mason or Roberto Luongo as big game goalies because they won WJ and Olympic Gold respectively. Sometimes, guys are just "there"
What is our record so far?

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05-16-2013, 01:20 PM
  #525
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Schultz is in the lineup, crisis averted.

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