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Honestly, has Kost been a disappointment?

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04-28-2005, 12:13 PM
  #1
Darcy Wakaluk
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Honestly, has Kost been a disappointment?

I was looking forward to Kost coming over to N.A. to see what he could do over here, and I have to say, I've been disappointed with what I've seen so far. This guy was hyped up to be an elite level sniper but could only muster up 12 goals and 23 points in 66 games.

I am really getting tired of hearing all the same excuses of "Oh, well he moved to a new country and can't speak the language," or "He isn't playing on the top line because he's improving his defensive play", or "Well, his girlfriend is back home and he is sad so he isn't scoring".

Kost is intreguing because he keeps teasing me with the odd impressive performance (USA at the WJCs, Dogs' skills competition). But seriously, when you look at the players who were drafted around him, you have to be a little disappointed with what he's done so far. It's been two seasons in a row that Kostitsyn hasn't stepped it up against higher levels of competition (RSL, AHL) and although I firmly believe in waiting at least five years before passing a verdict on a prospect, my patience is starting to wear thin with him. I want to see more.

So my question to you is, have you been disappointed with Kostitsyn?

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04-28-2005, 12:18 PM
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He hasnt played to his full potential but hey he's still so young and hell it is tough to come to a completely different culture and language. Give it time

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04-28-2005, 12:19 PM
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I think the excuses that you brought up are actually valid excuses.

We just need to be patient. No 2 players will have the same learning curve, so it's unfair to compare Kost to other players after only 2 years. I thought throughout the season, Kostitsyn improved, and to me that is a good sign. He seemed more comfortable with the physical play (I attended the first Hamilton game of the season, and watched him at the end of the season as well) and was contributing more towards the end. I have big expectations for next year, so perhaps I'll be on your side next May. But for now, I am fairly satisfied at how he has progressed.

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04-28-2005, 12:20 PM
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The quick answer is yes and no. His results are disappointing. We all hoped he'd burst onto the scene and put up #'s but he hasn't. I've been impressed by his game though. He's a more powerful type of skater than I expected, he seems to be learning and progressing, he plays with more of an edge than I expected. Thing is, he shows the qualities that made him a high choice, they just haven't translated onto the scoresheet yet.

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04-28-2005, 12:35 PM
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I would say yes also. Mostly because I look at players like Jeff Carter picked after him. But I don't think he is going to be a bust either. He'll be in the NHL in a couple of years but will not be the player we thought back in 2003.

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04-28-2005, 12:38 PM
  #6
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I say give it another 2 years. He just turned 20 so there is time. Unfortunately the expectations are unrealistic. We shall see.

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04-28-2005, 01:23 PM
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The pace at which Kostitsyn has progressed is irrelevent. No two players are alike. Some will make an instant jump to success (Bergeron anyone?) while others will only flourish after prolonged seasoning (Ryder anyone?).

Kostitsyn had to adapt to a lot of things, they've been enumerated on these boards numerous times, but we can probably also say he might be a slower learner, and there's nothing wrong with that.

If there had been no progression at all, I'd be worried, but anybody who saw Kostitsyn play at both the begining and the end of the season knows this isn't the case. His game is now well rounded, all he has to do next year is gain confidence in his offensive abilities and put that wonderful shot of his to better use.

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04-28-2005, 01:34 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1
I would say yes also. Mostly because I look at players like Jeff Carter picked after him. But I don't think he is going to be a bust either. He'll be in the NHL in a couple of years but will not be the player we thought back in 2003.
I think it's unfair to judge Kosts with Carter. Yes, they got drafted around the same draft positions, but that's where the comparisons should stop. Kosts came to another country, not knowing the language, to a smaller ice surface and to play against men. His adjustment time may be longer than say Perez, but at least he showed progress. He now knows the name of his own Goaltender, which I'm sure wasn't always the case, so his defensive game has improved. He showed he can handle a more physical type of play and I like that he can play with an edge. Give the guy time, and I'm pretty sure we'll be happy we have him. I'm optimistic that we have a damn good upcoming player on our hands that will develop into a fan favorite. Don't forget the WJC's where he showed what he can do against players his own age.

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04-28-2005, 02:11 PM
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If Jarvis had thought of playing him along with Pleks and Higgins this year, do you think he would've had better results? Yes, would he have learned as much (I don't know...) Did he lose any of his talent/skill?

Which is more important?

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04-28-2005, 02:14 PM
  #10
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A major factor is also the fact that Kost hardly played any games against good competition last season. He only played 11 RSL where he hardly saw any ice time and the rest were in the 1st league and in the B pool of the WJC which are both light years away from the AHL. The number of games played can also have an affect on his play in the second half of the season.

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04-28-2005, 02:14 PM
  #11
Darcy Wakaluk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munchausen
The pace at which Kostitsyn has progressed is irrelevent. No two players are alike. Some will make an instant jump to success (Bergeron anyone?) while others will only flourish after prolonged seasoning (Ryder anyone?).

Kostitsyn had to adapt to a lot of things, they've been enumerated on these boards numerous times, but we can probably also say he might be a slower learner, and there's nothing wrong with that.

If there had been no progression at all, I'd be worried, but anybody who saw Kostitsyn play at both the begining and the end of the season knows this isn't the case. His game is now well rounded, all he has to do next year is gain confidence in his offensive abilities and put that wonderful shot of his to better use.
Valid points, Kostitsyn has improved his overall game considerably, but he was drafted as a scorer and he hasn't been scoring. His defensive play went from abysmal to poor, and players like that generally don't see much time in the NHL unless they're putting pucks in the net. Timmins heralded Kostitsyn as the most NHL ready prospect in the '03 draft (Can't find a quote, but I'm pretty sure he said it and other people have referred to that quote too), but he seems to be at least one more season away from the NHL and more likely two or more.

On the flipside, would you consider this season as a success for Kostitsyn?

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04-28-2005, 02:18 PM
  #12
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It would be extremely unfair and completely wrong to judge him after such a short time, he's young and has a couple of things to learn. I see more potential in him than in Jeff Carter, just skill-wise. Though being the same age, Carter is more mature and more confident. That's something you should never underestimate. I believe in Kostitsyn and while becoming more adapted to the North American game, he will gain more maturity and confidence. Give him time. Some people need longer to break out and make things happen, which doesn't mean they will disappoint...

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04-28-2005, 02:22 PM
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Don't forget the one and only Guy Lafleur took a couple of years to round into form, playing in the NHL. Those first 2 years were very rough for him, with ppl constantly second-guessing his performance and the habs decision in drafting him. So I would say a bit of patience is in order.

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04-28-2005, 02:25 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheechoo14whitney
It would be extremely unfair and completely wrong to judge him after such a short time, he's young and has a couple of things to learn. I see more potential in him than in Jeff Carter, just skill-wise. Though being the same age, Carter is more mature and more confident. That's something you should never underestimate. I believe in Kostitsyn and while becoming more adapted to the North American game, he will gain more maturity and confidence. Give him time. Some people need longer to break out and make things happen, which doesn't mean they will disappoint...
Maybe I've been a bit unclear, I didn't start this thread as a "Kostitsyn will be a bust" or a "Damn it, we should've taken Carter" thread. I think he's a fine prospect and I've simply been a bit disappointed with his performance this season. I just wanted to know if my fellow Habs fans felt the same way. The most frustrating thing I find when talking with Habs fans about Kostitsyn is that they're always eager to make excuses for him. It hasn't been much different for the most part in this thread. What I really wanted to know is past all the excuses, have you or haven't you been disappointed with Kostitsyn's play this season.

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04-28-2005, 02:30 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Wakaluk
Valid points, Kostitsyn has improved his overall game considerably, but he was drafted as a scorer and he hasn't been scoring. His defensive play went from abysmal to poor, and players like that generally don't see much time in the NHL unless they're putting pucks in the net. Timmins heralded Kostitsyn as the most NHL ready prospect in the '03 draft (Can't find a quote, but I'm pretty sure he said it and other people have referred to that quote too), but he seems to be at least one more season away from the NHL and more likely two or more.

On the flipside, would you consider this season as a success for Kostitsyn?
Weel like you pointed out in your first sentence, he was drafted for offence. If Jarvis and the coaching staff had put has much effort and time to help him reach and keep develloping his offensive side of the game and not his defence maybe he would have produce more. Before a good offensive player learn the defensive side of the game, shoudn't he be suppose to produce? We took his offensive POTENTIAL(key word here) and put it on the side for the moment and we teached him the defensive game, big mistake IMO. And this is the whole and big problem of hockey today and why the game is boring. I don't want to make excuse has i was yes(and i'm not shie to say it) desapoint with his production. altough his performance at the WJC and his game VS the US prove me on his skills and potential. I say let him play and let him prove and show to you what he can do and then after teach him the teacheble of the game, but in Hamilton we put him in a situation that I think he was unconfortable with, and that certanly did not help him in his game and production. Sure he got better has the season went but I think he could have been better before. But I will wait till next season to really say what I think he will become in the future.

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04-28-2005, 02:38 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Wakaluk
Valid points, Kostitsyn has improved his overall game considerably, but he was drafted as a scorer and he hasn't been scoring. His defensive play went from abysmal to poor, and players like that generally don't see much time in the NHL unless they're putting pucks in the net. Timmins heralded Kostitsyn as the most NHL ready prospect in the '03 draft (Can't find a quote, but I'm pretty sure he said it and other people have referred to that quote too), but he seems to be at least one more season away from the NHL and more likely two or more.

On the flipside, would you consider this season as a success for Kostitsyn?
I never heard Timmons say Kostitsyn was the most ready NHL prospect from the '03 draft. I do recall him saying that he could play in the NHL right away. IMO that was far fetched to begin with seeing as though he struggled in the RSL (although he was only 17 at the time and going from the EEHL to the RSL is a major jump from what I am told)

As for Kostitsyn yes he has been a disappointment in his lack of offensive production. No he hasn't been a disappointment overall, as it's always a good sign to see a 19-20 year old prospect show a major improvement in their weakest area. Kostitsyn was brutal in his defensive play, but he improved upon this by a great deal. He's not poor defensively but actually decent to the point where Jarvis would have him out there very late in the game while protecting a lead. He's not great in his own end and likely never will be, but he's made huge strides in this area to the point that it's no longer a weakness imo.

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04-28-2005, 02:40 PM
  #17
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I think I made alot of excuse(witch could be seen has fact just like the other ''excuse'') for Kostitsyn play in my post and to be fair to Darcy Wakaluk, I will answer the threat correcly.

Yes I was desapointed in his play. Like many others, maybe my expectation were to high but still was desapointed. Like some other have stated in past treat, he seems to be falling on the ice quite often, altough I think he has very good balance because I've seen him being very solid at other times. He was more physsical then expected and was not afraid to go in traffic witch I'm very happy about. He got better has the season got along but so did the team. He also receive more ice time but again his production just wasin't there. I think 20G and 20A for 40PTS wasn't out of the question for a player at his level. With a production like this, we could be awaiting for a big production form his part the next season and then the NHL, but I guess we will just need to be patient and see how things goes.

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04-28-2005, 02:41 PM
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Disappointment is a relative thing. I didn't know much about him when he was drafted and I assume most North American fans didn't either. Our expectations were based on what we were told about him, not on the numbers he actually put up in Russia. He's still a mystery to most of us.

Guy Lafleur already had a substantial track record at the time he was drafted, and some of us had actually seen him play in junior. We expected huge things from him the moment he skated onto Forum ice. His first two years in the NHL were mildly successful by ordinary standards (he had two 20+ goal seasons) before he broke out, but at first he was put in the shadow by Richard Martin and Marcel Dionne.

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04-28-2005, 02:49 PM
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He's looking more like a bust now.He could still pan out, he's very young.He hasn't so impressed me, like I said before, he's way too shy, this won't help him even at the AHL level.He has a long way to go, I expect a big season from him, next year! He has improved his two way game, that's marvelous!

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04-28-2005, 02:56 PM
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Kostitsyn is soooo young. He is Belarussian. He come to Canada and speakes no english and only knows to do what he is told.
Jarvis asks him to improve his defence. He has worked hard. He has improved. What he has not done yet is to feel comfortable yet.
HE has not clicked with any other Bulldog forwards "YET" He has not developed that intangable "YET" As he gets more and more climatized to the AHL,Canada, English thoses small intangables will come allong. We have seen this process many times in the past. When you are learning a second language at first you memorize words, then you think in russian and translate in your head, and then the big breakthrough "you think in english and the words come out" Kostitsyn still needs that intangable.
For anyone that doubts he "is" a great prospect just remember his hockey during the world JR championships. HE was flying, inventive,forcefull and a real hard to stop kind of player for that russian team. He was in his element and he shone like a sun.
Until he feels that the AHL,Canada and English is "HIS ELEMENT" it will be a learning curve.


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04-28-2005, 03:03 PM
  #21
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He's looking more like a bust now.He could still pan out, he's very young.He hasn't so impressed me, like I said before, he's way too shy, this won't help him even at the AHL level.He has a long way to go, I expect a big season from him, next year! He has improved his two way game, that's marvelous!
He's 19 and looking like a bust, my god...Anyways , i was one of those who thought that he would produce right away but he didn't. I clearly see the enormous potential when i see him with the puck and his shot. The kid is only 19 and the Ryder-Ribeiro experience taught us something last year; patience...I remember the Quebec Rempart's president saying that Ribeiro would not make the NHL. I want to see Kosts being the go-to guy like he was on team Belarus. Next year should give us an idea.

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04-28-2005, 03:18 PM
  #22
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Yes this year was learning and getting used to north america. We can see lots of skills in him and next year should be a good one to evaluate him.

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04-28-2005, 03:50 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by montreal
I never heard Timmons say Kostitsyn was the most ready NHL prospect from the '03 draft. I do recall him saying that he could play in the NHL right away. IMO that was far fetched to begin with seeing as though he struggled in the RSL (although he was only 17 at the time and going from the EEHL to the RSL is a major jump from what I am told)

As for Kostitsyn yes he has been a disappointment in his lack of offensive production. No he hasn't been a disappointment overall, as it's always a good sign to see a 19-20 year old prospect show a major improvement in their weakest area. Kostitsyn was brutal in his defensive play, but he improved upon this by a great deal. He's not poor defensively but actually decent to the point where Jarvis would have him out there very late in the game while protecting a lead. He's not great in his own end and likely never will be, but he's made huge strides in this area to the point that it's no longer a weakness imo.
I'm pretty sure he said he had NHL skills and nothing more .

Anyways, I'll have to agree with you said, but I havent paid enough attention to kostitsyn to judge in depth.

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04-28-2005, 04:03 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darcy Wakaluk
The most frustrating thing I find when talking with Habs fans about Kostitsyn is that they're always eager to make excuses for him.
You shouldn't look at the fact we're making excuses, you should ask if they're valid ones. I remember that Jarvis started the year by sending the message to Kostitsyn that as long as he's a liability defensively, he would not get any ice time. Kostitsyn worked on defense, and he's now better than "poor" as you mentioned, he's actually quite decent. If you saw him play the last few games, you'd know he backchecks and helps deep in his zone. He also stays with his man. But his offense suffered as a result. He had to change his game. He was less explosive (and careless) than what we saw at the WJC.

If you want me to say I'd wish he could have improved his defense while still being successful offensively, I'll say it, I wish it was the case, because I want Kostitsyn to succeed as an offensive player, not a Nik Sundstrom II, but I'm not worried that he cannot get there, which is all that matters to me. This is a step in a bigger process. The fact he couldn't produce this year means nothing as far as his ultimate role in the NHL. All it means is it will take more time. If we're having this same discussion at the end of next season, then I'll start worrying.

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04-28-2005, 04:03 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLC
Kostitsyn is soooo young. He is Belarussian. He come to Canada and speakes no english and only knows to do what he is told.
Jarvis asks him to improve his defence. He has worked hard. He has improved. What he has not done yet is to feel comfortable yet.
HE has not clicked with any other Bulldog forwards "YET" He has not developed that intangable "YET" As he gets more and more climatized to the AHL,Canada, English thoses small intangables will come allong. We have seen this process many times in the past. When you are learning a second language at first you memorize words, then you think in russian and translate in your head, and then the big breakthrough "you think in english and the words come out" Kostitsyn still needs that intangable.
For anyone that doubts he "is" a great prospect just remember his hockey during the world JR championships. HE was flying, inventive,forcefull and a real hard to stop kind of player for that russian team. He was in his element and he shone like a sun.
Until he feels that the AHL,Canada and English is "HIS ELEMENT" it will be a learning curve.
Right, confidence plays a huge role and I agree during the world championship he was amazing. Let him play with Koivu and he is going to fly again!

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