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05-02-2013, 12:39 PM
  #201
forthewild
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As me and many others are saying the discipline system in NHL isn't deterring players its making the hits, its making them find creative ways to do the job and get away with it.

You want a simple rule? If you hit a guy illegally aka Brown, you sit until that player comes back. 1game, 10 games, 50 games, 2 years. life.

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05-02-2013, 12:57 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by forthewild View Post
As me and many others are saying the discipline system in NHL isn't deterring players its making the hits, its making them find creative ways to do the job and get away with it.

You want a simple rule? If you hit a guy illegally aka Brown, you sit until that player comes back. 1game, 10 games, 50 games, 2 years. life.
I like it. Under that system, Bertuuzi would currently be banned, as he should be.

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05-02-2013, 01:09 PM
  #203
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That would be terrible and abuseable.

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05-02-2013, 01:31 PM
  #204
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That won't work. As Lou Nanne said, a borderline player gets hit by a star, that borderline guy might get kept out for the series for "precautionary reasons" (think Hall and Clutteruck). Or, a guy might send a goon to take out a star player, who cares if you lose Trevor Gillies for the series if you take out Malkin, right?

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05-02-2013, 01:41 PM
  #205
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The best way to do it is to have the suspensions still the same, length-wise, but the suspended player has to sit out only against the team the violation was committed against. Ideal world, that goes into playoffs and along with him to any team he may be traded to.

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05-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #206
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I can't see that working either.

Gonchar hits Clutterbuck a couple years ago. Teams don't play more than once a year, if that.

Look, the suspensions need to have teeth, and they need to err on the side of the victim for close calls. 1-2 games isn't a deterrent.

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05-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #207
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Look, the suspensions need to have teeth, and they need to err on the side of the victim for close calls. 1-2 games isn't a deterrent.
That's never going to happen, though.

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05-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #208
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Which is funny, because they put rules in to protect the players and won't enforce them.

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05-02-2013, 01:50 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
That won't work. As Lou Nanne said, a borderline player gets hit by a star, that borderline guy might get kept out for the series for "precautionary reasons" (think Hall and Clutteruck). Or, a guy might send a goon to take out a star player, who cares if you lose Trevor Gillies for the series if you take out Malkin, right?
Yup, and then that's not fair to either player.

They simply need to have harsh penalties that aren't based on "star power" or how the discipline department feels on a given day, and they shouldn't base it on injury or no injury. Illegal hit? Yes -- Suspended.

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05-02-2013, 01:53 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Which is funny, because they put rules in to protect the players and won't enforce them.
They make it seem that they put the rules in place under the guise of player safety, but it's really just an attempt to sate those who are vocal about player safety, rather than actual safety. They can keep the star players playing, but really bring down the hammer on non-marketable players. That way they can always point to how tough they are being on hits to the head, regardless of if they are or not.

It's kind of shameful, IMO.

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05-02-2013, 01:59 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Dudicles View Post
They make it seem that they put the rules in place under the guise of player safety, but it's really just an attempt to sate those who are vocal about player safety, rather than actual safety. They can keep the star players playing, but really bring down the hammer on non-marketable players. That way they can always point to how tough they are being on hits to the head, regardless of if they are or not.

It's kind of shameful, IMO.
Exactly. If Crosby would elbow someone to the head, the punishment would be minimal if anything compared to let's say a Raffi Torres type of guy.

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05-02-2013, 02:05 PM
  #212
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i say they just cut the achilies tendon with a rusty knife on the offending player and their suspension is their recovery time.

problem solved, next?

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05-02-2013, 02:06 PM
  #213
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The thing is, there's no good way to go about and levy discipline; especially when a serious or vital injury occurs. Nothing the NHL could feasibly do will mitigate the loss that the opposing team suffered in such an occurrence. Once you get past that, it's an easier and more reasonable discussion to be had.

In most cases given the speed of the game I highly doubt players fully know the kind of damage that they're going to give to an opposing player. Even if they might follow through on a vulnerable player. Most players aren't that completely brain dead. But the speed and equipment does play a role in the type of injuries that are occurring.

Want to cut down on some of the more serious head-related injuries (which also happen to be the bulk of the suspension-able offenses)? Elbow and shoulder pads need to be given some serious thought to their design. Much more than trying to revamp a punishment system. IMO.

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05-02-2013, 02:16 PM
  #214
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Allright, so they send a league-minimum paid goon to take out mister $6,000,000 a year superstar. Superstar misses an even 12 months with a concussion and the league suspends mr. goon for that duration.

Yeah, that is very abuseable. But how about this. Since it's obviously a willful act, penalize the team, and penalize the team harshly. So lets say this happened in the first game of the year. Both the goon and the superstar are out a year, but to make things even, the offending team has their cap space immediately reduced by the injured players cap hit. That means if the team is playing near the cap, they are suddenly oh, 5 million over, and they have 2 games to become compliant by either waiving, trading, or sending someone big and important down to the minors, with a special no-waiver vulnerability exemption on both the trip down, and the trip back up when the cap space comes back.

What happens if its a superstar taking out another superstar? Well then no further penalty need be applied other than the suspension.

So, now the superstar goes down for 12 months, the goon is suspended for 12 months, and the offending team is reduced in relative player strength by the superstars cap hit. Is it harsh? Very harsh, especially for the player or players forced down into the minors during the suspension. Maybe we give them a "trade me or waive me" veto on being able to be sent down to the minors so they can spend the year with some other team. But it's a lot more fair than the current system.

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05-02-2013, 02:30 PM
  #215
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Just too complicated. But fining the coach and/or team if there's multiple suspensions isn't a bad idea. Remember what happened when they made a coach's fine for instigating a fight at the end of a game?

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05-02-2013, 02:32 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avder View Post
Allright, so they send a league-minimum paid goon to take out mister $6,000,000 a year superstar. Superstar misses an even 12 months with a concussion and the league suspends mr. goon for that duration.

Yeah, that is very abuseable. But how about this. Since it's obviously a willful act, penalize the team, and penalize the team harshly. So lets say this happened in the first game of the year. Both the goon and the superstar are out a year, but to make things even, the offending team has their cap space immediately reduced by the injured players cap hit. That means if the team is playing near the cap, they are suddenly oh, 5 million over, and they have 2 games to become compliant by either waiving, trading, or sending someone big and important down to the minors, with a special no-waiver vulnerability exemption on both the trip down, and the trip back up when the cap space comes back.

What happens if its a superstar taking out another superstar? Well then no further penalty need be applied other than the suspension.

So, now the superstar goes down for 12 months, the goon is suspended for 12 months, and the offending team is reduced in relative player strength by the superstars cap hit. Is it harsh? Very harsh, especially for the player or players forced down into the minors during the suspension. Maybe we give them a "trade me or waive me" veto on being able to be sent down to the minors so they can spend the year with some other team. But it's a lot more fair than the current system.
But that wouldn't make sense, especially if the star player being sent down played no part in the actual hit/foul play. They should penalize the coach/GM in another way, by maybe suspending the coach as well as the player in question. Or like you said, but the cap space is reduced by how much the suspended player hits on the cap, so if brown hits pominville, browns cap hit will be the one hitting on L.A.s overall cap

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05-02-2013, 02:33 PM
  #217
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I dont think fines are much of a deterrent unless they're getting into the 7 figure ranges, and no way in hell the owners or players association would agree to that. I think the only way teams stop trying to take out opposing superstars is if the punishment is having something important to their team have to sit out as well.

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05-02-2013, 02:37 PM
  #218
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But that wouldn't make sense, especially if the star player being sent down played no part in the actual hit/foul play. They should penalize the coach/GM in another way, by maybe suspending the coach as well as the player in question. Or like you said, but the cap space is reduced by how much the suspended player hits on the cap, so if brown hits pominville, browns cap hit will be the one hitting on L.A.s overall cap
Then we get back to the cheap goon taking out a superstar and being disposable.

And it's supposed to be harsh. It's supposed to be DAMN harsh because of how harsh it is for the team with the injured player being down a key component of their club for an extended duration.

And like I said, maybe if the player that's going to be sent down won't have any of that, maybe he gets the option to force a trade or place himself on waivers instead.

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05-02-2013, 02:46 PM
  #219
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Start off with a 10-game suspension. On the second offense the offender must use a Nerf stick and his skate guards are bolted on for 10 more games. Every offense after that, they face the same punishment and an additional teammate, starting with the highest salary, faces the same punishment.

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05-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #220
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I dont think fines are much of a deterrent unless they're getting into the 7 figure ranges, and no way in hell the owners or players association would agree to that. I think the only way teams stop trying to take out opposing superstars is if the punishment is having something important to their team have to sit out as well.
They will if it's the coach

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05-02-2013, 02:54 PM
  #221
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Or, a guy might send a goon to take out a star player, who cares if you lose Trevor Gillies for the series if you take out Malkin, right?
That can happen just as easily in the current setup.

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05-02-2013, 03:07 PM
  #222
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Then we get back to the cheap goon taking out a superstar and being disposable.

And it's supposed to be harsh. It's supposed to be DAMN harsh because of how harsh it is for the team with the injured player being down a key component of their club for an extended duration.

And like I said, maybe if the player that's going to be sent down won't have any of that, maybe he gets the option to force a trade or place himself on waivers instead.
Sure, but that would make standing up for your teammates much more important, something I think everyone can agree on that the Wild has NOT done.

It's just completely stupid that you would start messing with a future of a team for something like that. Imagine if Cooke did something again, and it would force the pens to send down/trade one of their gazillion star players, damaging their future in the process.

If it's a repeat offender, like Cooke or Torres, give him a long-ass suspension, something like Torres got on that hit on Hossa. He's cleaned up his game immensely after that. That's what they do in Euro leagues and it works like a charm and it sure worked on him.

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05-02-2013, 03:10 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Uberdachen View Post
Start off with a 10-game suspension. On the second offense the offender must use a Nerf stick and his skate guards are bolted on for 10 more games. Every offense after that, they face the same punishment and an additional teammate, starting with the highest salary, faces the same punishment.
Actually, that's not a bad idea!

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05-02-2013, 03:46 PM
  #224
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Right wing Jason Pominville will not play in Game 2 and won't make the trip as he continues to recover from an elbow to the head from Los Angeles Kings forward Dustin Brown nine days ago. Yeo also said Pominville is day-to-day, so a best-case scenario for Minnesota would mean he's back in time for Game 3 on Sunday.
Looks like Pominville might not play game 2.....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=17099

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05-02-2013, 04:40 PM
  #225
Jarick
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What do you do with him this summer?

Sign him to a long-term deal and hope the concussion doesn't impact his health and game going forward?

Wait until the season starts and roll the dice that he might not re-sign?

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