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The official crow eating thread: I am now a believer

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Old
04-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
KH did a good job getting Dekeyser?

No offense, but Dekeyser WANTED to play here. He's family friends with the Nils, the Redmonds, etc.

Get KH to get someone who didn't grow up yearning to be a Red Wings, and I'll give him credit.
So Holland has to sign a player who doesn't WANT to come here to get credit?

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04-25-2013, 12:28 PM
  #27
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So Holland has to sign a player who doesn't WANT to come here to get credit?
There's not only 2 states of mind.

There's "Oh my glob. I love the Detroit Red Wings. They're my favorite team. I grew up loving them my entire life. If I could ever play for them, that would be a dream come true."

Signing that guy is no big accomplishment at all.

Then there's "I just want to play hockey. I've got a favorite team but they aren't interested in signing me so I'll go to whoever I guess. I wonder who makes the best offer? I wonder where I'd prefer to live? I wonder who has the best chance?"

Signing that guy? Sure, I'll give you credit.

Finally, there's "I *hate* the damn Wings. I grew up an Avs fan and I just hate their guts. It would take all the money on planet Earth to make me play for them."

Sign that guy and I'll bow at your feet.

You guys have no nuance in your lives. It's either love or hate. On or off. No creativity, no subtlety.
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Last edited by Fugu: 04-25-2013 at 02:36 PM. Reason: qep
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04-25-2013, 12:36 PM
  #28
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The Red Wings are a .500 team. When they resemble somewhat of a legitimate hockey team threads like this pop up. When the team is playing okay, but not good enough to win a game threads like x player should be on line x pop up. When the team is playing like a bottom feed team threads like Ken Holland should be fired pop up.

The only crow that will be served is when Holland addresses a couple issues;
-Acquire a legitimate top 6 forward which has plagued them for YEARS
-Acquire a replacement for Lidstrom
-Get on the same page with Babcock so they can ice a competitive team with players they both feel they need to succeed.

All the Red Wings are doing is living up to the expectations set for them; 7-8th seed team and a first round exit. Congrats, I guess.


Last edited by Fugu: 04-25-2013 at 02:34 PM. Reason: quotes deleted post
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04-25-2013, 12:37 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
KH did a good job getting Dekeyser?

No offense, but Dekeyser WANTED to play here. He's family friends with the Nils, the Redmonds, etc.

Get KH to get someone who didn't grow up yearning to be a Red Wings, and I'll give him credit.
You'd be leading the charge to behead Holland if DeKeyser had chosen to play some place else. Remember, Bob, all 30 teams were wooing him.

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04-25-2013, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
There's not only 2 states of mind.

There's "Oh my glob. I love the Detroit Red Wings. They're my favorite team. I grew up loving them my entire life. If I could ever play for them, that would be a dream come true."

Signing that guy is no big accomplishment at all.

Then there's "I just want to play hockey. I've got a favorite team but they aren't interested in signing me so I'll go to whoever I guess. I wonder who makes the best offer? I wonder where I'd prefer to live? I wonder who has the best chance?"

Signing that guy? Sure, I'll give you credit.

Finally, there's "I *hate* the damn Wings. I grew up an Avs fan and I just hate their guts. It would take all the money on planet Earth to make me play for them."

Sign that guy and I'll bow at your feet.

You guys have no nuance in your lives. It's either love or hate. On or off. No creativity, no subtlety.
I simply prefer that Holland signs players that contribute to excellence like he has for the last 20 years or so. I don't see the need to establish a new bar of difficulty in any signing. Ken Holland is an excellent GM. I don't think he has to sign Patrick Roy out of retirement to prove himself.

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04-25-2013, 12:48 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Capsized View Post
I simply prefer that Holland signs players that contribute to excellence like he has for the last 20 years or so. I don't see the need to establish a new bar of difficulty in any signing. Ken Holland is an excellent GM. I don't think he has to sign Patrick Roy out of retirement to prove himself.
I'm glad you said the bolded because he hasn't signed much of anything in the last 2-3 years. Unless you count Mikael Samuelsson and Carlo Colaiacovo as excellence, and let's not beat around the bush, Danny Cleary will be back next year as well. It's easy to sign free agents when you could throw more money around than any other team before the cap, keep in mind the Detroit Red Wings were the 'New York Yankess' of the NHL. Ironic they are both on the decline at the same time.

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04-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Capsized View Post
I simply prefer that Holland signs players that contribute to excellence like he has for the last 20 years or so. I don't see the need to establish a new bar of difficulty in any signing. Ken Holland is an excellent GM. I don't think he has to sign Patrick Roy out of retirement to prove himself.
This isn't about him "proving himself."

This is about people heaping praise on him for a signing that by all accounts, was in the bag before it was even a question. DD's numerous ties to the Wings, the fact that he grew up a fan, that it has been his long time dream... That makes it a lock.

Moreover, Holland has made more than a few stupid moves in his lifetime. Hell, even in just the past 2-3 years. Sammy, Cleary, Bert, Quincey (x2, trading for then resigning). Those aren't even "hindsight" criticisms like with Hossa v Franzen. Those are just straight up bad moves. Signing guys way past their prime in lieu of using that homegrown talent that you're so fond of you just won't trade away.

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04-25-2013, 12:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
You'd be leading the charge to behead Holland if DeKeyser had chosen to play some place else. Remember, Bob, all 30 teams were wooing him.
Who wouldn't be leading the charge?

The guy was practically handed to us. If he slipped through our fingers I'd sure as hell be mad. Your logic just makes our position stronger.

All 30 teams were wooing him. He already had an extremely heavy bias towards one team. If we can't land that, then Holland messed up. I'm not going to give the guy praise for not messing up what should be a sure thing. It's like praising Howard for stopping a shot from the red line. You're expected to do that.

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04-25-2013, 12:53 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
KH did a good job getting Dekeyser?

No offense, but Dekeyser WANTED to play here. He's family friends with the Nils, the Redmonds, etc.

Get KH to get someone who didn't grow up yearning to be a Red Wings, and I'll give him credit.
I understand that and it is all good and well. But for another angle, Kenny was the head of scouting when we drafted his idol. Kenny was instrumental in our 20 year plus run and has been with the organization the whole time. Kenny was the guy that hired Nill.

Is any of this truly possible without Holland? To give him no credit isn't exactly right either. He also did get it done and get him in the fold, promising him things out of his comfort zone and keeping him on the NHL roster instead of sending him to the AHL this season.

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04-25-2013, 12:54 PM
  #35
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Definitely a sense or urgency and increase in their tempo and overall play the past few games. They have looked good from the get go the last 2 games. I'm not as doom and gloom as some people on here. I appreciate the last 20 years and while I would be extremely disappointed if they missed the playoffs, it wouldn't be the end of the world. This teams just not great as we all know. I still think we are an above average team that could become a legit contender with some tweaks and additions to the roster. With that said, when I look at a potential matchup with Chicago or Anaheim, I'm not exactly shaking in my boots. The Wings have played both teams tough all season. Can the Wings take 4 out of 7 from either team? I'm not sure, but I think if they can continue this level of play they can make it interesting. We just have to get there first.

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04-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
You'd be leading the charge to behead Holland if DeKeyser had chosen to play some place else. Remember, Bob, all 30 teams were wooing him.
No I wouldn't.
I don't blame Holland for not getting Schultz, for example. Would be nice, sure. But whatever. But landing Schultz might have taken some effort. Because he's not part of the Red Wings family. He didn't grow up wearing the winged wheel and idolizing Red Wings. So I'd give Holland *SOME* credit for for landing a guy like Schultz.


Besides, you don't behead a GM over an undrafted college prospect.

You behead a GM for 4 years of incompetence.

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04-25-2013, 01:06 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I understand that and it is all good and well. But for another angle, Kenny was the head of scouting when we drafted his idol. Kenny was instrumental in our 20 year plus run and has been with the organization the whole time. Kenny was the guy that hired Nill.

Is any of this truly possible without Holland? To give him no credit isn't exactly right either. He also did get it done and get him in the fold, promising him things out of his comfort zone and keeping him on the NHL roster instead of sending him to the AHL this season.
Holy Grasping at straws, Batman.

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04-25-2013, 01:09 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
I understand that and it is all good and well. But for another angle, Kenny was the head of scouting when we drafted his idol. Kenny was instrumental in our 20 year plus run and has been with the organization the whole time. Kenny was the guy that hired Nill.

Is any of this truly possible without Holland? To give him no credit isn't exactly right either. He also did get it done and get him in the fold, promising him things out of his comfort zone and keeping him on the NHL roster instead of sending him to the AHL this season.
He also lost Yzerman, Shanahan, Fetisov, Larionov, Konstantinov, Federov, and others on his way to winning the cup in 08. I would judge that as skillful transitioning. He most certainly deserves the chance to continue building upon his legacy which is that of one of the best GMs in all of sports.

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04-25-2013, 01:10 PM
  #39
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Wings have been playing solid, winning some important games, showing some energy, they are on the brisk of locking up a playoffs spot; the overall team has been playing as a team.... So people come here to bash Holland? Yeah that makes alot of sense

Only on HF /facepalm

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04-25-2013, 01:12 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Holy Grasping at straws, Batman.
Kenny is a big part of this organization, some see it and give him the credit others don't I guess. You don't think the version of the Detroit Red Wings that DeKeyser grew up rooting for has a lot to do with him? Can't help you I guess, but Devellano and Holland built this machine.

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04-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #41
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Wings have been playing solid, winning some important games, showing some energy, they are on the brisk of locking up a playoffs spot; the overall team has been playing as a team.... So people come here to bash Holland? Yeah that makes alot of sense

Only on HF /facepalm
Bashing Holland in general kinda doesn't make sense. No GM in the NHL has done what Holland has done. He is no HF poster but he has been ummm....good. Bashing Holland right now is like bashing Cabrera because he didn't hit a home run one inning.

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04-25-2013, 01:17 PM
  #42
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So Holland has to sign a player who doesn't WANT to come here to get credit?

Get real.

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04-25-2013, 01:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Kenny is a big part of this organization, some see it and give him the credit others don't I guess. You don't think the version of the Detroit Red Wings that DeKeyser grew up rooting for has a lot to do with him? Can't help you I guess, but Devellano and Holland built this machine.
Like I said, you're grasping at straws.

You want to give Holland credit for all the success this franchise has enjoyed, fine.

But you're stretching it real thin with your argument

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04-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  #44
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I have always believed this team was more likely to make the playoffs as opposed to not making them, but there's really no reason for anyone to eat crow yet.

We still aren't locked in and the fact remains that there have been some serious managerial gaffes this season, as well as the lat 2-3 seasons. That said, the team is playing better lately and the third line has really been clicking so Babs deserves some props for that. Also, this team has just a much different dynamic when Franzen plays with fire under his ass instead of his frequent float routine.

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04-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #45
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Bashing Holland in general kinda doesn't make sense. No GM in the NHL has done what Holland has done. He is no HF poster but he has been ummm....good. Bashing Holland right now is like bashing Cabrera because he didn't hit a home run one inning.
So how do you defend Holland not making ONE move at the deadline? Pittsburgh made a move to get Iginila because they knew that almost guarantees them a spot in the Finals. A GM not making a move at the deadline is a sign that he is fine with mediocrity. And just making the playoffs is fine because that keeps the streak going.

I think a couple posters have to realize pre-cap Holland and post-cap Holland are two separate entities.


Last edited by TatarTangle: 04-25-2013 at 01:28 PM.
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04-25-2013, 01:23 PM
  #46
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Two years ago, if you said this team was on the decline, people *****ed and called you a troll.

Two years later, these same people are the ones crying about fans who aren't happy with a team that qualifies for the playoffs in the last two days of the season.

L.O.****ING.L.

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04-25-2013, 02:02 PM
  #47
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So how do you defend Holland not making ONE move at the deadline? Pittsburgh made a move to get Iginila because they knew that almost guarantees them a spot in the Finals. A GM not making a move at the deadline is a sign that he is fine with mediocrity. And just making the playoffs is fine because that keeps the streak going.

I think a couple posters have to realize pre-cap Holland and post-cap Holland are two separate entities.
Penguins gave up too much for Iginila, but Pens are going "all in" and trading valuable picks in a deep draft year, which should be used to maintain the quality of their future. It seems one GM doesn't care about the future, the other is thinking about the future.

Maybe if Wings had tanked for a bunch of years to get the Croby's, the Malkin's, and had 1st overalls to waste on the Fleury's... Holland can afford to mortgage the future.

Holland landed Damien Brunner and Danny Dekeyser for absolutely nothing got a pick for the departure of Stuart, and has stocked the prospect pool that looks legit, and has done all this without top 5 picks every year. While the Detroit Red Wings were playing in the SCFs and WCFs from 1996 to 2007, Penguins were banking top quality draft picks. Just goes to show how amazing our franchise is!

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04-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #48
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This thread will be a gong show if we lose tonight

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04-25-2013, 02:09 PM
  #49
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And I'll prolly be hitting something that rhymes with gong if we do

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04-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  #50
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This thread will be a gong show if we lose tonight
DRW fans are very fickled creatures. No doubt, Nashville will be playing the game of their lives tonight to help drive the knife in DRWs hearts. Predators know Detroit played 3 games in 4 nights... they are going to use that to their advantage.

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