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and the Calder goes to.... [UPDATE: Post #237 Nail Not Nominated]

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:17 AM
  #276
worraps
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Originally Posted by Slats432 View Post
Yakupov scored 16 % of his points and almost a third of his goals on the last weekend in meaningless games. I wouldn't have nominated him either.
Give your head a shake.

Minnesota fighting for their playoff lives in game 47 was hardly meaningless. How meaningful were Huberdeau's last 3 points against Tampa?

Huberdeau and Gallagher played in the much easier to score in Eastern Conference. How many times did they beat 2 of last season's Vezina nominees for game tying / game winning goals?

Saad played on a line with two perennial all-stars. Yakupov spent a big chunk of the season playing on a line with Horcoff and Jones. Jesus he even saw some time in the Belanger triangle and still managed to win the rookie scoring race.

Failing to nominate him is a disgrace. The PHWA should be ashamed of themselves.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:22 AM
  #277
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If yak scored most of his points in meaningless games does that mean the panthers had more meaningful games than us?

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #278
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Wow I didn't think he'd win cus I know it's bs but at least a nomination

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05-06-2013, 10:24 AM
  #279
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RNH had some fifth place votes last year. The voters have their own personal biases, obviously.

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05-06-2013, 10:29 AM
  #280
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*(mr burns excellent hands)*

Now yakupov is going to be extra motivated ( not that he isn't already) and score 55 next year and break out like stamkos win a crap load of awards and run onto the stage and slide on his knee to accept his hardware!!!

ok maybe not, i know its disappointing but the calder is a pretty lame trophy anyways.

last 4 years have been.... landeskog, skinner, myers, mason...

3 years before... kane, malkin, ovi

I don't know the stats but I'm willing to guess the last 4 years have been close stats wise making for some odd picks over the typical offensive guy.

those other 3 years i'm guessing thy separated themselves from the pack.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:33 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Rpro View Post
RNH had some fifth place votes last year. The voters have their own personal biases, obviously.
And this is why the Calder trophy means nothing.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:38 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by worraps View Post
Give your head a shake.

Minnesota fighting for their playoff lives in game 47 was hardly meaningless. How meaningful were Huberdeau's last 3 points against Tampa?

Huberdeau and Gallagher played in the much easier to score in Eastern Conference. How many times did they beat 2 of last season's Vezina nominees for game tying / game winning goals?

Saad played on a line with two perennial all-stars. Yakupov spent a big chunk of the season playing on a line with Horcoff and Jones. Jesus he even saw some time in the Belanger triangle and still managed to win the rookie scoring race.

Failing to nominate him is a disgrace. The PHWA should be ashamed of themselves.
This. A million times this. The East is higher scoring conf and I think in the SouthEast defensive play is optional. They can take their Calder and stick it. Nail got better as the season went on by a huge margin and I am happy as hell he is on our side.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:39 AM
  #283
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From March 7 - April 27 (Last game) Hubs had 3 goals and was a -14 over that span.

WTF!?! and we are talking about how Yak was inconsistant as a reason he was left off. At least he showed that he was learning to play over the course of the year not just a hot start.

I also find it mildly entertaining that people are saying he carried the Panthers. Lol they are last place, I could have 100% guarentted that if I played I could have carried them to last!

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05-06-2013, 10:46 AM
  #284
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I'm really not all that pissed about the trophy like I said before we'll just have to wait until he wins the Rocket Richard

But the system is without a doubt broken.

Yak wasn't nominated for two reasons
1) he's not Canadian
2) he plays on a western conference team

Same reasons for Brodin

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05-06-2013, 10:47 AM
  #285
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Well, obviously I am not going to win a debate with my fellow Oiler fans, but Yakupov's game overall, for the entire season wasn't as good as it need to be to be nominated. His hat trick skewed his stats a little, while Huberdeau was more consistent this year.

Personally, I would agree with some that Brodin should be there. You could make a case for Yak, but he lost the debate. No big deal.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:50 AM
  #286
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Maybe Marincin or Klefbom can contend for the rookie of the year in the future.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:51 AM
  #287
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This is an exceptional year given the lockout. I think the voters should look at the body of work of the rookies for the year and apply that to their voting. Different with veterans who may play or not, but every rookie under consideration played in at least 2 leagues. Gallagher and Saad played ok in the AHL. Huberdeau played well in Junior, and Yakupov played really well for an 18 year-old in the KHL. Nail helped lift his team from obscurity and scored at an impressive clip against men.

Voters should consider that Nail played on international ice surface in the KHL, played the Russia/CHL challenge in North America, back to Russia for the World Juniors, some more KHL and then back to North America for the NHL, where in an abbreviated season, he ties for the league in scoring. That's an impressive body of work that should be considered given the exceptional circumstances on the lockout.

I know this broader lens would then have to consider Schultz and his work in the AHL, and the voters are only concerned with the work done in the NHL; however, this is not your typical year, so evaluating players shouldn't be typical.

I don't care if Nail would've won the Calder, but to not be nominated given his playing diversity, being the youngest rookie in contention, and that he TIED for league scoring for rookies is baffling.

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05-06-2013, 10:57 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranford#30 View Post
This is an exceptional year given the lockout. I think the voters should look at the body of work of the rookies for the year and apply that to their voting. Different with veterans who may play or not, but every rookie under consideration played in at least 2 leagues. Gallagher and Saad played ok in the AHL. Huberdeau played well in Junior, and Yakupov played really well for an 18 year-old in the KHL. Nail helped lift his team from obscurity and scored at an impressive clip against men.

Voters should consider that Nail played on international ice surface in the KHL, played the Russia/CHL challenge in North America, back to Russia for the World Juniors, some more KHL and then back to North America for the NHL, where in an abbreviated season, he ties for the league in scoring. That's an impressive body of work that should be considered given the exceptional circumstances on the lockout.

I know this broader lens would then have to consider Schultz and his work in the AHL, and the voters are only concerned with the work done in the NHL; however, this is not your typical year, so evaluating players shouldn't be typical.

I don't care if Nail would've won the Calder, but to not be nominated given his playing diversity, being the youngest rookie in contention, and that he TIED for league scoring for rookies is baffling.
I could careless to what players did outside the NHL. I think he should be in over Saad, but it has nothing to do with what they did before they played in the NHL this year.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:57 AM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paralyzer View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...d=nhl:topheads

Saad, Gallagher and Huberdeau.

What a F***ing joke.

Edit: Sad part is this quote:

"Huberdeau, the No. 3 pick in 2011, finished second on the Panthers in scoring with 31 points (14 goals, 17 assists) in 48 contests. Huberdeau tied for first in rookie scoring with Edmonton Oilers winger Nail Yakupov, who was the No. 1 pick in 2012."
I said it last week, Saad will get it because of GWG, +/- and playoffs, and other BS. The NHL fails again.

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Old
05-06-2013, 10:58 AM
  #290
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The Snub is real.

Always has been from the very start with this franchise.

The sportswriters have turned heads elsewhere time and time again.

This storied franchise has Zero Calder awards. Zero. Stunning that. The best young assembled team ever to hit the ice collectively had zero calder trophies.

In comparison lets look at the similar Islanders dynasty

3 Calder awards. Bossy, Potvin, Trottier.

But lets look at some of the calder award winners during the Oilers dynastic years:

If people can believe it the Calgary Flames, that legendary franchise down south, won 3 calder awards while the Oilers were winning SC's

Drum roll please:

Sergei Makarov, Joe Niewendyk, Gary Suter.

Chicago won two during that time with such legends as Steve Larmer and Ed Belfour. Heart be still.

Other notable legends that won during our dynasty:

Tom Barasso (are you ****ing kidding me)

Bryan Leetch

Peter Stastny(was somehow considered a rookie at age 25 after being a pro, and international player in Europe for years after Wayne Gretzky, age 18, was considered ineligible due to a year in the WHA, yeah, go figure)

Ask yourself how an org with a list of the following rookies never won a Calder:

Wayne Gretzky
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Jari Kurri
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr
K Lowe
Esa Tikkanen
Jason Arnott
Ryan Smyth
Sam Gagner
Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Nail Yakupov

Sorry if I missed anybody.

We're batting something like zero for 14 in likely candidates through the years.

Lets look at the latest. Huberdeau and Yak have identical pts. Huberdeau had more minutes played, Yak had more goals, Yak had better +/- by a considerable amount, and Huberdeau obtained his pts in the much more lax EC where more goals are scored and playing against pathetic Southeast division teams.

Yeah theres nothing unfair going on here..


Last edited by Replacement: 05-06-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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Old
05-06-2013, 11:02 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
The Snub is real.

Always has been from the very start with this franchise.

The sportswriters have turned heads elsewhere time and time again.

This storied franchise has Zero Calder awards. Zero. Stunning that. The best young assembled team ever to hit the ice collectively had zero calder trophies.

To wit while that was going on lets look at some of the calder award winners during the Oilers dynastic years:

If people can believe it the Calgary Flames, that legendary franchise down south, won 3 calder awards while the Oilers were winning SC's

Drum roll please:

Sergei Makarov, Joe Niewendyk, Gary Suter.

Chicago won two during that time with such legends as Steve Larmer and Ed Belfour. Heart be still.

Other notable legends that won during our dynasty:

Tom Barasso (are you ****ing kidding me)

Bryan Leetch

Peter Stastny(was somehow considered a rookie at age 25 after being a pro, and international player in Europe for years after Wayne Gretzky, age 18, was considered ineligible due to a year in the WHA, yeah, go figure)

Ask yourself how an org with a list of the following rookies never won a Calder:

Wayne Gretzky
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Jari Kurri
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr
K Lowe
Esa Tikkanen
Jason Arnott
Ryan Smyth
Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Nail Yakupov

Sorry if I missed anybody.

We're batting something like zero for 13 in likely candidates through the years.

Lets look at the latest. Huberdeau and Yak have identical pts. Huberdeau had more minutes played, Yak had more goals, Yak had better +/- by a considerable amount, and Huberdeau obtained his pts in the much more lax EC where more goals are scored and playing against pathetic Southeast division teams.

Yeah theres nothing unfair going on here..
Don't take it personally. It's a popularity contest. Nothing more. It's not like the Oilers are going to put a banner up in the rafters for a Calder trophy. It is what it is. Move on.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:10 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I could careless to what players did outside the NHL. I think he should be in over Saad, but it has nothing to do with what they did before they played in the NHL this year.
Fair enough. I did qualify my statement. In any other year I'd agree, but given the lockout, I'd widen the evaluation lens.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:11 AM
  #293
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Don't take it personally. It's a popularity contest. Nothing more. It's not like the Oilers are going to put a banner up in the rafters for a Calder trophy. It is what it is. Move on.
tbh I could care less. I just felt that the thread deserved some historical perspective to hilite how ongoing, and real, the snub is. Its to comical levels.

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Old
05-06-2013, 11:17 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Mustymustard View Post
Saad had 5 points in his first 21 games...
As a fan of both Yakupov and Saad (and both teams), I'm glad somebody pointed this out. Saad took a long time to heat up and was quite inconsistent til the latter bit of the season as well. He probably won't win it anyway. Perhaps the 'token' nomination from the West so the calls of media bias are kept at bay.

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05-06-2013, 11:18 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Wayne Gretzky
Mark Messier
Paul Coffey
Jari Kurri
Glenn Anderson
Grant Fuhr
K Lowe
Esa Tikkanen
Jason Arnott
Ryan Smyth
Taylor Hall
Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Nail Yakupov
How many of those guys deserved it? Just a quick look and I can tell you that it wasn't like they were giving the award to nobodies. Messier had half the points Bourque did. Coffey, Kurri and Anderson all lost to Statsny who was 6th in the league for scoring. Smyth? He had 11 points his rookie year.

Yes we had a real good young team, but a lot of those players were out played in their rookie years.

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05-06-2013, 11:18 AM
  #296
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Overall I'm not too mad about the Yakupov snub, as he will a future star one day and not to mention the Calder's a joke. But the Brodin snub is a joke, how in the hell did Brodin get snubbed LOL. Goes to show how bush league NHL writers are.

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05-06-2013, 11:22 AM
  #297
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Don't take it personally. It's a popularity contest. Nothing more. It's not like the Oilers are going to put a banner up in the rafters for a Calder trophy. It is what it is. Move on.
I agree it's a popularity contest..which, in itself, is a joke for this league. There should be a criteria, simple set of mathamatical functions to determine the best rookie..goals, assists, PPG, etc..not some writer's opinion and who, most of the time, appear to have very little knowledge of what it actually takes to be an NHL player.

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05-06-2013, 11:23 AM
  #298
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I work in an industry where the major awards are handed out by a panel of journalists and academics and retailers, many of whom don't even attempt to conceal their bias. At first, I'd get outraged at being 'snubbed', pleased by being nominated, and elated at winning, but after a few years, I realized that letting the entirely subjective opinions of strangers affect me one way or the other was a very foolish, wasteful exercise.

I think there is value in awards that you win entirely on objective merit (Art Ross, Rocket Richard, etc) and awards voted on by your peers, like the Ted Lindsay (though even then politics and bias still factor in). At the end of the day, though, there should only be one trophy that an NHL player aspires to win, and it's not one that's handed out by a group of journalists.

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05-06-2013, 11:26 AM
  #299
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
How many of those guys deserved it? Just a quick look and I can tell you that it wasn't like they were giving the award to nobodies. Messier had half the points Bourque did. Coffey, Kurri and Anderson all lost to Statsny who was 6th in the league for scoring. Smyth? He had 11 points his rookie year.

Yes we had a real good young team, but a lot of those players were out played in their rookie years.
Just a question here as I could be off on this but how many games need to be played in a year for it to be considered the players rookie year?


ps Stastny was 25 yrs old when he beat out Kurri and Anderson.

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05-06-2013, 11:28 AM
  #300
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People agreeing with the nominations and the Yak snub are straight up embarrassing.

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