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Possile KHL-NHL transfer agreement

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Old
05-10-2013, 07:07 AM
  #1
vorky
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Possile KHL-NHL transfer agreement

Quote:
Daly added that members from the Russian federation said they would take the framework for the new transfer agreement to their board for consideration. The NHL has not had a transfer agreement with the Russian federation since 2004, but a Memorandum of Understanding that requires both the NHL and Kontinental Hockey League to honor signed contracts is in place.

"So, from our perspective we basically have an agreement with everybody except the Russians," he continued. "The Russians committed to giving it consideration and coming back to us. We obviously have to take it to our Board for them to consider -- and, hopefully, approve -- in the near future."

Daly said he isn't sure if the NHL will be able to enter into a Player Transfer Agreement with the Russians. He called it "an ongoing discussion."

"There is no level of expectation really, at this point," Daly said. "Obviously the KHL and its clubs represent somewhat different issues, but we opened further dialogue with them both on an individual basis and in a group basis, and we hope to continue that dialogue."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...d=nhl:topheads

Discuss.

1.Will both sides sign the deal?
2. Conditions?

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Old
05-10-2013, 05:45 PM
  #2
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I wanna see the details. If it's $200 or some **** like that again, I would say don't sign it. The KHL and Russia doesn't need this ****.

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05-10-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
I wanna see the details. If it's $200 or some **** like that again, I would say don't sign it. The KHL and Russia doesn't need this ****.
My words. As I see it, NHL negotiated with Swedes (of course, $200 or $225 per player), then this draft was offered to other nations, only Russians said NO, others agreed (idiots). Now, it is up to Russians if agree as well. I am sure, KHL will not agree on such **** deal, especially if it is possibly for 7 yrs (btw, are euro hockey federations that dumb?). Dont know how FHR would react, their leadership seems to be the same as other euro hockey fed. All top/big russian clubs are part of KHL now, so hope KHL has more power within russian hockey than Tretyak´s "friends".

I would like to see KHL-NHL transfer deal, but FAIR one. I can imagine these conditions:

- negotiations for transfer fee club by club or fee not less than $500 000 USD per player
- CHL/AHL clubs paying for russians
- not more than 4 yrs deal
- no opt out clauses, russian kid can move to CHL/AHL/NHL only as is without contract or KHL teams agrees with it

etc

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05-12-2013, 12:14 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post

Furthemore to say that NBA cares about the developmet of basketball is pretty naive, they care about gaining more markets where they can sell their products, do you really think that they care about the state of Italian, German and French league (neither of these leagues is at the top in Europe) as long as they can sell their products their thanks to Parker, Nowitzki and Galinari?
Yep, but these euro clubs get at least fair money as transfer fee when a player comes to NBA. Now compare it to hockey. Swedes have 80+ players in NHL(AHL) and gets next to nothing as compensation. The same other euro leagues/nations. That is fair? That is how it should work? No, it is not and many ppl dont like this system. Basketball is not ideal, not fair to players who have to buyout, but much better than hockey. I can imagine NBA would love the same system as NHL has, and hope it will not happen. Hoping KHL can negotiate better conditions, NBA model is ideal, MLB´s one is unreal but fair if you ask me.

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05-12-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Yep, but these euro clubs get at least fair money as transfer fee when a player comes to NBA. Now compare it to hockey. Swedes have 80+ players in NHL(AHL) and gets next to nothing as compensation. The same other euro leagues/nations. That is fair? That is how it should work? No, it is not and many ppl dont like this system. Basketball is not ideal, not fair to players who have to buyout, but much better than hockey. I can imagine NBA would love the same system as NHL has, and hope it will not happen. Hoping KHL can negotiate better conditions, NBA model is ideal, MLB´s one is unreal but fair if you ask me.
The basketball system is a pretty flawed one, players are forced to pick between two sides and they come out screwed regardless of the option they choose, I wouldn't really talk about the NBA as the better organization in terms of care for the growth of their sport comapred to the NHL.

And please if you really want to quote what I posted in another thread at least have the courtesy to quote my entire post and highlight the part of the post you want to adress. Thanks in advance.

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05-12-2013, 05:49 PM
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The other European leagues prove time and time again that they are nothing but battered wives, content to take their beating and make excuses for their bully.

What is more unsettling is how our Scandinavian friends, who have accomplished so many great things in hockey, would rather give up the fruits of their labor to the western Ottoman, rather than be a part of something greater. And now their players not only have contracts with an out clause to go to the NHL but now also have an out clause to go to Russia??

If the FHR signs this deal as is, it is pretty much the end of the FHR/KHL relationship and rightfully so.

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05-12-2013, 06:13 PM
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Just to know we are talking about. NHL´s offer here

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
That's correct. The new agreement will give the Swedish federation $240k per player, but $325k for every player after the 10th guy that is signed. They then spread the money to the clubs in question.

So if Sweden ships over 20 players one summer, they'll get $240k x 10 + $325k x 10 = $5,65M / 20 = $282,5k per player.

Previous agreement gave $225k per player regardless of how many.

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05-12-2013, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
The other European leagues prove time and time again that they are nothing but battered wives, content to take their beating and make excuses for their bully.

What is more unsettling is how our Scandinavian friends, who have accomplished so many great things in hockey, would rather give up the fruits of their labor to the western Ottoman, rather than be a part of something greater. And now their players not only have contracts with an out clause to go to the NHL but now also have an out clause to go to Russia??

If the FHR signs this deal as is, it is pretty much the end of the FHR/KHL relationship and rightfully so.
agree. I have an feeling that FHR will not sign it because of too Long deal and conditions. I still hope KHL has more power within russian hockey than Tretyak´s friends. On the other hand I have an feeling that Tretyak would sign it immidiatelly. He counted that Russia lost 25 mil dollars since 2004. Huh, that is not so many, Tatneft gives to kids hockey milions every year..... only Tatneft, do you get it?



And what is even more sad? The UNprofesionalism of russian journalists, especially guy called Pavel Lysenkov. Not only this video but all his job is PRO-NHL, ANTI-KHL. Can you imagine TSN guys who would be ANTI-NHL and PRO-RUSSIAN? Can you imagine TSN guys to talk that NHL PTA is not fair to euro federations? Are TSN guys like this? Or not?

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05-12-2013, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
The UNprofesionalism of russian journalists, especially guy called Pavel Lysenkov. Not only this video but all his job is PRO-NHL, ANTI-KHL. Can you imagine TSN guys who would be ANTI-NHL and PRO-RUSSIAN? Can you imagine TSN guys to talk that NHL PTA is not fair to euro federations?
Wouldn't make TSN guys unprofessional though. "Unprofes[s]ionalism" is not the right word here.

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05-12-2013, 07:20 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
The other European leagues prove time and time again that they are nothing but battered wives, content to take their beating and make excuses for their bully.

What is more unsettling is how our Scandinavian friends, who have accomplished so many great things in hockey, would rather give up the fruits of their labor to the western Ottoman, rather than be a part of something greater. And now their players not only have contracts with an out clause to go to the NHL but now also have an out clause to go to Russia??

If the FHR signs this deal as is, it is pretty much the end of the FHR/KHL relationship and rightfully so.
That's hilarious.

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05-14-2013, 09:59 AM
  #11
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Thank GOD

google
Quote:
Since its inception, the CHL has established itself as an equal partner in matters of NHL players transitions. Concluded two years ago, an agreement on mutual recognition of the existing contracts League performed by both parties. This is a great achievement CHL, fundamentally changed the relationship with the NHL, to put barriers in the way of departure overseas players with existing contracts with the clubs of the League. For the duration of the aforementioned agreement was not a single case of a hockey player out the current contract. But back in 2008 due to lack of agreement with the NHL, the Russian clubs have lost nearly three dozen players who had at the time of the contract. Established relationship between the leagues are unique, and none of the European leagues do not have such an agreement. The existing agreement acknowledges the equal importance of contracts in both leagues - KHL and the NHL.

Promoted FHR proposal made by the European NHL hockey leagues and federations, is a step backwards. The agreement gives the right to take any European NHL player with a contract for a fixed fee. The agreement, in fact, recognizes the hegemony of the NHL and European hockey players said the nullity of contracts in European hockey leagues. It is obvious that the CHL is a pattern of interaction is unacceptable, and taking into account existing contractual relationship with the NHL can not even be discussed.

Claiming offers financial benefits of the NHL and the "lost profits", FHR openly manipulates figures. There was a decade ago, such a proposal, which Russia could take and get to date 25 million U.S. dollars. As there were a hundred who left adult players. But quite obvious and documented is the sum of expenditures for salaries of Russian clubs and players to prepare them for playing for the Russian national team at the World Championships and Olympic Games. According to conservative estimates, over the years the NHL, this amount is 43 billion (!) Rubles, or by using the referenced FHR currency more than 1.3 billion dollars.

Indeed the actual problem is the outflow of the Russian hockey in North American minor league hockey juniors, that is, players under the age of 18, is not yet concluded contracts with professional clubs KHL. These players have contracts juniors and are under the jurisdiction of FHR. Schools, brought up players when they do not get out of compensation and KHL clubs do not receive an influx of young players in the right amount. It seems that this particular issue should be the subject of active attention of FHR and the subject of her talks with the IIHF Ice Hockey Federation and the United States and Canada, under the jurisdiction of which work overseas minor hockey league.
http://www.khl.ru/news/2013/05/14/139356.html

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05-14-2013, 10:23 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Unreadable (if that is an actual word). You simply can't google translate this kind article.

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05-14-2013, 10:44 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Unreadable (if that is an actual word). You simply can't google translate this kind article.
Unfortunatelly I dont have time to translate it. You can or wait for KHL ENG site.

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05-14-2013, 02:27 PM
  #14
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Here's a translation:

KHL issues response to RIHF proposal

From the moment of its inception, the Kontinental Hockey League has established itself as an equal partner with the National Hockey League in matters of player transfers. The Memorandum of Understanding signed two years ago to respect existing players’ contracts in each other’s leagues has been impeccably observed by both parties. This was a considerable achievement by the KHL, involving a fundamental change in its relationship with the NHL and preventing an exodus to North America of players who had existing contracts with KHL clubs. Since the signing of the above agreement there has not been a single instance of a player breaking the terms of his contract to pursue his career overseas, whereas in 2008 alone, due to the absence of such an agreement, Russian clubs lost the services of more than two dozen players who were nonetheless under contract. The relationship between the KHL and NHL is unique; nothing of its kind exists among any of the European leagues. The existing agreement acknowledges the equal validity of contracts in both leagues.

The proposal put forward by the Russian Ice Hockey Federation and European hockey leagues on behalf of the NHL would be a backward step. The agreement would grant the NHL the right to sign any European player – even one with an existing contract - for a set fee. Such an agreement would amount to an acceptance of NHL hegemony over European hockey and would undermine the validity of players’ contracts in the European hockey leagues. For the KHL such a plan is clearly unacceptable, and furthermore, in view of the existing contractual relationship with the NHL, the League sees no reason to even discuss the proposal.

In claiming that the NHL proposal offers financial benefits, and that the absence of such a plan has led to "missed profits," the RIHF is blatantly manipulating the figures. Had a similar proposal been accepted a decade ago, Russia may well have received to date a sum of 25 million USD, as around one hundred adult players have indeed left the country. However, there has also been the obvious and easily-documented expenditure by Russian clubs on the salaries of these players and their preparation for the Russian national team for the World Championships and Olympic Games. According to conservative estimates, over the five years of the KHL’s existence, this adds up to 43 billion (!) rubles, or in the RIHF’s preferred currency, more than $1.3 billion.

Indeed the real problem facing Russian hockey is the flood of juniors (i.e. players aged 18 or under who have not signed professional contract with any KHL club) to minor leagues in North America. These players find themselves on junior contracts and under the jurisdiction of the RIHF, yet the hockey schools who had nurtured these athletes until their departure do not receive any compensation, and KHL clubs are faced with a depleted pool of talented young players to add to their rosters.
One would imagine that this is the kind of problem which should be the object of the RIHF’s undivided attention, and the subject of that organization’s discussions with the IIHF and the Canadian and US hockey federations, under whose jurisdictions the North America minor leagues operate.

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05-14-2013, 02:28 PM
  #15
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St George

thx and welcome here

btw are you sure with this?

Quote:
Had a similar proposal been accepted a decade ago, Russia may well have received to date a sum of 25 million USD, as around one hundred adult players have indeed left the country.
Quote:
Не было десять лет назад такого предложения, которое Россия могла бы принять и получить к сегодняшнему дню 25 миллионов долларов США. Как не было и ста уехавших взрослых игроков.


Last edited by vorky: 05-14-2013 at 02:34 PM.
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05-14-2013, 04:50 PM
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"btw are you sure with this?"

- No I assumed the 25m was the "lost/missed profit" mentioned earlier.
Should it be, "There was no such offer a decade ago, by which Russia would have received to date a sum of 25 million USD, just as there has not been one hundred adult players leaving the country,"? What do you think?

I couldn't find the original claim from the Russian Ice Hockey Federation, so I'm not sure what, exactly, is being 'denied' in this sentence by the KHL. And I don't know how many Russian adult hockey players have left for North America.


Last edited by St George: 05-14-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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05-14-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by St George View Post
"btw are you sure with this?"

- No
Should it be, "There was no such offer a decade ago, by which Russia would have received to date a sum of 25 million USD, just as there has not been one hundred adult players leaving the country,"? What do you think?

I couldn't find the original claim from the Russian Ice Hockey Federation, so I'm not sure what, exactly, is being 'denied' in this sentence by the KHL. And I don't know how many Russian adult hockey players have left for North America.
This is a reaction of KHL to Tretyak´s speech (video at #8, time 1:40), where he said russian clubs lost 25 mil. USD for last decade when there was no PTA.

It is not important how many russians left, but that Tretyak is not right.

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05-14-2013, 06:38 PM
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Thank you, Vorky. I guessed that the $25m claim was misleading because it is tiny compared to the minimum $1.3bn which would be wasted (in wages etc) on developing players who then break their contracts to go to North America. I used the subjunctive ("Had a similar proposal been accepted...") because I wasn't sure whether a similar proposal had been rejected or whether there was no such offer of any kind, and that construction covered both possibilities
I've only been following hockey since 2009, so I am still studying Russian and Soviet hockey history... "Учимся понемногу, учимся..."


Last edited by St George: 05-14-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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05-14-2013, 10:04 PM
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Wow, I had no idea there was such a rift between the KHL and the RHF. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that the KHL would have the guts to speak so strongly against a governmental body. Maybe Putin needs to get involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMlsbB33QSc

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05-15-2013, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
Wow, I had no idea there was such a rift between the KHL and the RHF. I have to admit I'm a bit surprised that the KHL would have the guts to speak so strongly against a governmental body. Maybe Putin needs to get involved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMlsbB33QSc
You watch too much western news. That said, too bad we don't have that kind of stuff in the US. If Putin was American, there would be a new face on Mount Rushmore. But i digress.

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05-15-2013, 02:40 AM
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I just got the idea.... what do you think about that?

Daly is a lawyer, NHL sends the lawyers to negotiate with IIHF/Federations the details of PTA... right? They have experiance with business negotiations, btw CBA is a great training for them.

Tretyak, Nemecek and all heads of euro hockey federations are amateurs, no experiance with bussiness (I mean world-class business)

How can be this negotiation fair? If one part (Euros) is representative by amateurs? Imagine, NHLPA to be representated by ppl who have no idea how business works? Would NHLPA be sucesfull in negotiations of CBA? Not... because NHLPA would accept the 1st offer and would think it is the best offer....

Euro federations did the same.. did not negotiate.. that is fair? Not. Is it problem of NHL? Not. It is problem of Euros? Yes and only their problem.

So. Thx god for KHL (like KHL or not), but it is only entitity which can negotiate with NHL... because, ppl from KHL have experiance with bussiness, negotiations... btw, majority worked for Gazprom.

That is the problem, that euros are representated by amateurs in negotiations, then it is easy for NHL to "win the battle", if NHL does not have strong opponent/partner for negotiations. But I dont understand why (some) ppl on this board (Swedes/Finss) dont see this. It is easy to understand... the politics work like this btw.

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05-15-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I just got the idea.... what do you think about that?

Daly is a lawyer, NHL sends the lawyers to negotiate with IIHF/Federations the details of PTA... right? They have experiance with business negotiations, btw CBA is a great training for them.

Tretyak, Nemecek and all heads of euro hockey federations are amateurs, no experiance with bussiness (I mean world-class business)

How can be this negotiation fair? If one part (Euros) is representative by amateurs? Imagine, NHLPA to be representated by ppl who have no idea how business works? Would NHLPA be sucesfull in negotiations of CBA? Not... because NHLPA would accept the 1st offer and would think it is the best offer....

Euro federations did the same.. did not negotiate.. that is fair? Not. Is it problem of NHL? Not. It is problem of Euros? Yes and only their problem.

So. Thx god for KHL (like KHL or not), but it is only entitity which can negotiate with NHL... because, ppl from KHL have experiance with bussiness, negotiations... btw, majority worked for Gazprom.

That is the problem, that euros are representated by amateurs in negotiations, then it is easy for NHL to "win the battle", if NHL does not have strong opponent/partner for negotiations. But I dont understand why (some) ppl on this board (Swedes/Finss) dont see this. It is easy to understand... the politics work like this btw.
What "battle"?

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05-15-2013, 09:54 AM
  #23
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What "battle"?
to dictate one-way conditions to Euros. By using other words, to force Euros to accept everything what NHL offered.

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05-15-2013, 11:09 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
I wanna see the details. If it's $200 or some **** like that again, I would say don't sign it. The KHL and Russia doesn't need this ****.
I would be in total disbelief if the Russian Federation agreed to sell their players to the NHL dirt cheap just to have an agreement in place. What value is an agreement unless it serves your interest? From the standpoint of the KHL (maybe not necessarily the RHF), it seems to me the best interests are served by keeping the best talent in the KHL. Why should the Russian Federation help a foreign league at the expense of their own domestic league?

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05-15-2013, 11:21 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
I would be in total disbelief if the Russian Federation agreed to sell their players to the NHL dirt cheap just to have an agreement in place. What value is an agreement unless it serves your interest? From the standpoint of the KHL (maybe not necessarily the RHF), it seems to me the best interests are served by keeping the best talent in the KHL. Why should the Russian Federation help a foreign league at the expense of their own domestic league?
IMO because there is an opinion (Holly Bible or something like that) that all players must play NHL, go there for free or cheap money and euro federations are obligated to allow them (not to ask much money/protect domestic leagues). That is an opinion of all euro federations (their bosses) and they just gave up - no reason to fight with NHL - agents will find out a loophole how to go to NA for free - so it is better to have at least 200 000 USD.

Just giving up ... and I dont like it. KHL is a entity which is able to negotiate with NHL fair-fair, but does not have support from Euros (and FHR as well).

Dont know if you know how bureaucrat/politicians from old regime (CCCP etc) adapted to new regime after 1990. Many of them are now in politics, bussiness, they just "change the coat", but still think they live in communism. The same here, bosses of euro federations did not get that we are not in 1990-2000 when NHL was powerhouse without opponent (KHL) .. they still live in the past. And of course, Russia is evil for them, so it is better to support NHL than KHL (Russia) even we "lost" ... but any victory at russian´s side is worse than your biggest mistake. I am sure that leaders of euro federations have this opinion ... +/-

and of course, there is inter-russian problem among FHR and KHL - FHR is old regime, KHL wants to change something. Unforutnatelly for KHL, FHR has still a power (read last part of statement) and we will see in future how KHL will separate itself from FHR (IIHF) if there is no other solution. That is like politics, both parties (KHL, FHR) and both wants the power to govern country (russian hockey).

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