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Old
06-22-2013, 04:00 PM
  #426
Hockey Buddha
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
RCMP have now recovered the body of the 3rd fatality from the flooding.
Tragic. They've done quite a commendable job with the evacuations, however, or there could have been a lot more loss of life incurred.

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06-22-2013, 04:08 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by Njoy Oilers View Post
Quite a bit of misinformation by posters on social media as well, to make some businesses look bad. I.e Calgary Co-op fruit tray pic. $60.00 for a tray that feeds 30 people is there every day. No one on HF reports that. Haters are gonna hate.


This will feed 30 people?

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:19 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Any updates on Canmore? Are people able to get out of there?
Found this update on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...PAbb8tvU#at=14

He says in the video that the RCMP expects 40% of the town of Canmore to fall into Cougar Creek by the end of the day.(June 21st I assume.) Massive damage.

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06-22-2013, 04:25 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post

Do you really think that fruit trays could save lives at, say, $25? Please. Try to be logical here. You are letting your emotions run away. Also, why do we even have silly laws? Politicians are so stupid. Illegal downloading and all that...See what I mean? I await your apology.
I'm sorry you napped during your Economics 101 course?

In all seriousness let me show you an example here.

Corner Store has 5 fruit trays that they sell at $10.

Disaster strikes and people need food.

Under Scenario A - let's call it 'Play Nice Everyone Scenario' the Corner Store keeps prices the same.

Individual A comes along, buys up all 5 trays at $50 because the feel they want to stock up just in case

Individual B gets none
Individual C gets none
Individual D gets none
Individual E gets none

Now, either Individual B-E get no food, or they are forced to buy those same fruit trays off of the fruit tray black market, IF they can find a seller, and IF they can afford whatever price the Black Market fruit man decides to sell it at.

Under Scenario B - let's call it 'Meanie Jerk Face Scenario' the Corner Store sees a line up outside his store of people who need food.

He drives the prices up to $50 per food tray.

Individual A comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual B comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual C comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual D comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual E comes by and can't afford it and leaves.

Hmm I guess it's priced too high, so he drops the price down and finally sells the fruit trays.

Or, more realistically with what happens in these types of situations.

Individual A comes by, decides that he only NEEDS 1 tray and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual B comes by, decides he only NEEDS 2 trays and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual C comes by and can't afford it.
Individual D comes by and buys 1
Individual E comes by and buys 1.

Now, 4 people have fruit, and 1 does not, as compared to 1 person having fruit and 4 not. Also, the store owner has a higher income with which to buy even more stock and repeat the cycle, a factor generally forgotten about in these scenarios.

The reality is while it seems to be a really mean thing to do, jacking up prices actually helps far more people in the end.

IF they end up pricing their product over the value of what people are willing to pay, then guess what - they won't sell it and the price goes back down.

This is a highly simplified version of markets, but just because something bad happens, it doesn't mean that letting the market decide prices is a bad thing - in fact in this case it's a good thing.

I get it though. At first glance there is a vitriolic emotional response to this - I experience it as well. It's just that sometimes policy makers need to use their brains and not their tear ducts to make decisions.

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:32 PM
  #430
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Old
06-22-2013, 04:33 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post


This will feed 30 people?
It's a fruit tray. Not a main course. You add that to spinach dip, cheese ball, veggie tray, and you got yourself a snack at a baby shower. These items are always expensive. I wouldn't be heading to the deli right after a flood. Liquor store maybe!?!?

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06-22-2013, 04:39 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
I'm sorry you napped during your Economics 101 course?

In all seriousness let me show you an example here.

Corner Store has 5 fruit trays that they sell at $10.

Disaster strikes and people need food.

Under Scenario A - let's call it 'Play Nice Everyone Scenario' the Corner Store keeps prices the same.

Individual A comes along, buys up all 5 trays at $50 because the feel they want to stock up just in case

Individual B gets none
Individual C gets none
Individual D gets none
Individual E gets none

Now, either Individual B-E get no food, or they are forced to buy those same fruit trays off of the fruit tray black market, IF they can find a seller, and IF they can afford whatever price the Black Market fruit man decides to sell it at.

Under Scenario B - let's call it 'Meanie Jerk Face Scenario' the Corner Store sees a line up outside his store of people who need food.

He drives the prices up to $50 per food tray.

Individual A comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual B comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual C comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual D comes by and can't afford it and leaves.
Individual E comes by and can't afford it and leaves.

Hmm I guess it's priced too high, so he drops the price down and finally sells the fruit trays.

Or, more realistically with what happens in these types of situations.

Individual A comes by, decides that he only NEEDS 1 tray and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual B comes by, decides he only NEEDS 2 trays and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual C comes by and can't afford it.
Individual D comes by and buys 1
Individual E comes by and buys 1.

Now, 4 people have fruit, and 1 does not, as compared to 1 person having fruit and 4 not. Also, the store owner has a higher income with which to buy even more stock and repeat the cycle, a factor generally forgotten about in these scenarios.

The reality is while it seems to be a really mean thing to do, jacking up prices actually helps far more people in the end.

IF they end up pricing their product over the value of what people are willing to pay, then guess what - they won't sell it and the price goes back down.

This is a highly simplified version of markets, but just because something bad happens, it doesn't mean that letting the market decide prices is a bad thing - in fact in this case it's a good thing.

I get it though. At first glance there is a vitriolic emotional response to this - I experience it as well. It's just that sometimes policy makers need to use their brains and not their tear ducts to make decisions.
If people would follow up on reports, they would find a lot of them are ********.

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06-22-2013, 04:40 PM
  #433
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Saw someone tweet this at Josh Classen, taken at paradise valley.


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Old
06-22-2013, 04:43 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Njoy Oilers View Post
It's a fruit tray. Not a main course. You add that to spinach dip, cheese ball, veggie tray, and you got yourself a snack at a baby shower. These items are always expensive. I wouldn't be heading to the deli right after a flood. Liquor store maybe!?!?
CBC newsworld put up a tweet from Calgary Coop which indicated that they had not raised any prices since the flooding started. This is not flood related gouging. Just normal everyday gouging....

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Old
06-22-2013, 04:53 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by hillbillypriest View Post
CBC newsworld put up a tweet from Calgary Coop which indicated that they had not raised any prices since the flooding started. This is not flood related gouging. Just normal everyday gouging....
Haha. Touché!! Not sure why I would rush to the tray either. #bagofapplesfine

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:00 PM
  #436
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I made a bad choice going to Kinsmen Pitch and Putt this afternoon

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:24 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post

Individual A comes by, decides that he only NEEDS 1 tray and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual B comes by, decides he only NEEDS 2 trays and is willing to pay the cost.
Individual C comes by and can't afford it.
Individual D comes by and buys 1
Individual E comes by and buys 1.

.
And Individual C will most likely take advantage of donated food rations.

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:34 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gret99zky View Post


This will feed 30 people?
In fairness, Calgary Co-ops are pretty over priced at the best of times. If you told me that was actually the regular price for that tray, I would hesitate for at least a moment before not believing it.

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:40 PM
  #439
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It says a lot about how silly people are that so many don't think increasing the price 10x isn't price gouging. In a time of temporary shortage, you need only increase the price 50-100% and 99% of people who don't need the product won't buy it, they'll wait until the shortage subsides. Everything beyond that is simply taking money out of the pocket of the people who do need the products, while they are vulnerable. It's like charging a guy $100 to make a 911 call after he just got hit by a car and his phone was broken.

I'm in Calgary. There is no panic regarding food, just people being silly and creating the panic. Water is understandable though in a time where the water system is under threat, but even though you can just boil the water.

If I really needed food, and I go into the store and the prices were that high, I'm grabbing just what I need and walking straight out the door. Don't like it? Call the police... oh wait they're all busy. If someone tries to screw me like that, I'll screw them right back. After 33 years of never committing a crime, I'm willing to take one misdemeanor if it's the right thing to do.

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Old
06-22-2013, 05:51 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by doulos View Post
I'm sorry you napped during your Economics 101 course?
No, not napping. I learned that economics is the science of greed, an unintended outcome of the course, I'm sure, and a point that you might have missed.

It would be interesting watching someone attempt to teach economic theory with a class of single mothers with a couple of kids scraping by paycheck-to-paycheck on two low-paying full-time jobs, who may not have the money to afford a high priced bottled water or to be able to rent a hotel to stay in because of price-gouging.

Alberta has a lot of working class poor.

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06-22-2013, 06:04 PM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
No, not napping. I learned that economics is the science of greed, an unintended outcome of the course, I'm sure, and a point that you might have missed.

It would be interesting watching someone attempt to teach economic theory with a class of single mothers with a couple of kids scraping by paycheck-to-paycheck on two low-paying full-time jobs, who may not have the money to afford a high priced bottled water or to be able to rent a hotel to stay in because of price-gouging.

Alberta has a lot of working class poor.
consistent with your avatar at least

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:08 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Buddha View Post
No, not napping. I learned that economics is the science of greed, an unintended outcome of the course, I'm sure, and a point that you might have missed.

It would be interesting watching someone attempt to teach economic theory with a class of single mothers with a couple of kids scraping by paycheck-to-paycheck on two low-paying full-time jobs, who may not have the money to afford a high priced bottled water or to be able to rent a hotel to stay in because of price-gouging.

Alberta has a lot of working class poor.
all things being equal

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:12 PM
  #443
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=426086

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:18 PM
  #444
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The Flames have released pictures of the inside of the Saddledome here: http://flames.nhl.com/club/gallery.h...id=DL|CGY|home

Yikes.

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:28 PM
  #445
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Would be a really nice gesture if the Oilers had the Flames open up their season using Rexall as their home base as well until the Saddledome is ready (if it takes that long to repair... which it very well could).

Westjet/AirCanada might even chip in some discount seats to help the Flames fans get up there a little cheaper to the "home" games.

Probably not realistic but it would be nice for everyone to chip in and try to help get Calgary through this all.

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:40 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Would be a really nice gesture if the Oilers had the Flames open up their season using Rexall as their home base as well until the Saddledome is ready (if it takes that long to repair... which it very well could).

Westjet/AirCanada might even chip in some discount seats to help the Flames fans get up there a little cheaper to the "home" games.

Probably not realistic but it would be nice for everyone to chip in and try to help get Calgary through this all.
I think they should be ready, I mean they still basically have the entire summer to get things back on track.

The Flames may have to play their pre-season games elsewhere though.

We actually drove up 17th Ave yesterday and got about as close to the Saddledome area as I think you're allowed to get. It was pretty eerie, all the lights were out and it was a full moon.

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:42 PM
  #447
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Devon in a state of emergency, evacuating low areas.

http://www.devon.ca/Home/IntheNews/t...ed-335-pm.aspx

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Old
06-22-2013, 06:44 PM
  #448
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I'm just not sure the amount of damage there may be structurally in the Saddledome... wiring, foundation etc.

It's a building that obviously has to meet safety codes to put on public events and it may take quite a while to assess and repair. Bigger job than just sweeping out the mud from the garage and getting on with it.

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06-22-2013, 06:45 PM
  #449
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Anyone know how long it took to repair the Superdome and get it back into action after Katrina?

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06-22-2013, 07:02 PM
  #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Anyone know how long it took to repair the Superdome and get it back into action after Katrina?
August 2005 to September 2006

But the Superdome was definitely different; it was used as a shelter and there were two holes ripped across the top, as well as the incredible amounts of flooding.

Beyond that, would the Flames have to play in Saskatoon if there was no Saddledome? In the city at a smaller arena?

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