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red sox/mlb thread part xxiv: dewey's revenge

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Old
05-16-2013, 09:22 AM
  #326
Therick67
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People who hate JD don't really understand baseball, IMO.
I hated him because he'd only play when he was 100%. The guy had great ability and certainly produced when he played.

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05-16-2013, 09:31 AM
  #327
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I hated him because he'd only play when he was 100%. The guy had great ability and certainly produced when he played.
That's pretty typical for Boras guys. He advises them to not play through injuries because it will ultimately impact their negotiating power. Look at Ellsbury, he's done the same thing Drew did.

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05-16-2013, 09:38 AM
  #328
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Will Middlebrooks OPS+ so far this season is 72.

72.

He is in the running for worst every day player thus far.
Wow!

I expected he would cool off this year, and take a while to find a groove, he's still a very young, and very inexperience player.

Overall, this is still a good baseball team, very fun to watch despite their recent struggles. Do you all think if they are where they are, they will make a splash at the deadline this year? If so, what would they look for??

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05-16-2013, 10:15 AM
  #329
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That's pretty typical for Boras guys. He advises them to not play through injuries because it will ultimately impact their negotiating power. Look at Ellsbury, he's done the same thing Drew did.
Okay but that's not an excuse. No man should be able to look in the mirror, see his teammates do what they have to do to win, and then shut himself down with little aches and pains. It might be Boras' opinion but any grown man with common sense and a backbone should be a better teammate. Of course, you might be onto Boras' strategy. It's possible he does look for Sallies as clients.

I think Drew was underrated around here so count me in on that group. But that doesn't mean he wasn't gutless.

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05-16-2013, 10:18 AM
  #330
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Okay but that's not an excuse. No man should be able to look in the mirror, see his teammates do what they have to do to win, and then shut himself down with little aches and pains. It might be Boras' opinion but any grown man with common sense and a backbone should be a better teammate. Of course, you might be onto Boras' strategy. It's possible he does look for Sallies as clients.

I think Drew was underrated around here so count me in on that group. But that doesn't mean he wasn't gutless.
Sure, and you get backlash as a player when you do that. Remember Youk calling Ellsbury out during his rib injury? I don't condone holding yourself out until you're 100%, but I also know it happens.

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05-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #331
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Okay but that's not an excuse. No man should be able to look in the mirror, see his teammates do what they have to do to win, and then shut himself down with little aches and pains. It might be Boras' opinion but any grown man with common sense and a backbone should be a better teammate. Of course, you might be onto Boras' strategy. It's possible he does look for Sallies as clients.

I think Drew was underrated around here so count me in on that group. But that doesn't mean he wasn't gutless.
This is exactly how I feel. I didn't hate the player (even though I said I did), but sometimes you have to be a team guy and play when your team needs you. For guys who make the most money and have the longest careers, alot of these guys just worry about the money.

Look what happened to Bard. He could have been a stellar reliever, but he wanted to be a starter to make more coin. Didn't work out so well.

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05-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #332
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Sure, and you get backlash as a player when you do that. Remember Youk calling Ellsbury out during his rib injury? I don't condone holding yourself out until you're 100%, but I also know it happens.
Maybe I dont remember it right, but didn't the Sox doctors have a hand in that situation?

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05-16-2013, 12:35 PM
  #333
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Maybe I dont remember it right, but didn't the Sox doctors have a hand in that situation?
Yup. The Sox doctors originally called it bruised ribs, and he got a second opinion that came back with fractured ribs and cartilage damage, IICRC...

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05-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #334
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Yup. The Sox doctors originally called it bruised ribs, and he got a second opinion that came back with fractured ribs and cartilage damage, IICRC...
Shocker

These guys should just go right to the second opinion, or check with someone who stayed at a holiday inn express.

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05-16-2013, 01:08 PM
  #335
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I may be qualified to join the Red Sox medical staff

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05-16-2013, 01:16 PM
  #336
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I may be qualified to join the Red Sox medical staff
Are you willing to intentionally misdiagnose players and put their lives at risk? Have you ever given a toradol injection? If so, come on down. They could use a guy like you...

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05-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #337
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Shocker

These guys should just go right to the second opinion, or check with someone who stayed at a holiday inn express.
If I was a Sox player, I'd pull a costanza for all their medical advice. Whatever their initial diagnosis was, I'd assume it was the exact opposite.

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05-16-2013, 01:54 PM
  #338
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People who hate JD don't really understand baseball, IMO.
I could go off about JD for days. One of my favorite guys to toss on the uniform in recent memory

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05-16-2013, 02:04 PM
  #339
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I've always been a huge proponent of the Drew brothers. My dad hates me for it hahaha

Stephen is a great player when healthy, and it's finally starting to show.

JD was an extraordinary talent too. His last year here he was garbage, but he was a well above average RF for us for a few years.

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05-16-2013, 02:34 PM
  #340
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JD Drew was awesome, people just hated him because they're ignorant and expected him to either throw his helmet around and run into walls like Trot Nixon or hit like Manny Ramirez. He ended up being just a very good though not quite great corner OF and #5 hitter who showed little to no emotion, so nobody was satisfied in their desire for amazing stats or emotional dirt dog outbursts. He was a very good player who wasn't even injured that much until his last year here.

The Grand Slam off the artist formerly known as Fausto Carmona is one of my all-time favorite Red Sox moments.

Stephen just sucks though.

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05-16-2013, 03:00 PM
  #341
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JD Drew was awesome, people just hated him because they're ignorant and expected him to either throw his helmet around and run into walls like Trot Nixon or hit like Manny Ramirez. He ended up being just a very good though not quite great corner OF and #5 hitter who showed little to no emotion, so nobody was satisfied in their desire for amazing stats or emotional dirt dog outbursts. He was a very good player who wasn't even injured that much until his last year here.

The Grand Slam off the artist formerly known as Fausto Carmona is one of my all-time favorite Red Sox moments.

Stephen just sucks though.
Was in the right field grandstands for that game, and I swore an oath that if he hit a bomb then, I'd never say a bad word about the man. That was truly as great a sports moment as I've seen live...

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05-16-2013, 03:56 PM
  #342
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Pedroia is not a #3 hitter
Maybe not your prototypical #3, but didn't he win MVP when he hit third down the stretch? Or was it cleanup? Forget what year it was...2008? I don't mind him at all batting third. They always say your best hitter bats third, not your best power hitter. The power is fine in the 4-5 slots with Ortiz and Napoli.

***********************

re: Drew brothers

1. Stephen Drew hasn't been fine. He's been fine recently. He is not a great player by any stretch/measure. I will, however, give him credit for his good play since a dreadful start. He won't keep this up. All I ask is that he doesn't revert to his April performance. Somewhere in between should be fine.

2. JD--both underrated and overrated at the same time. Easy to dislike him for not being aggressive at the plate/nursing "injuries". The ballwashing from the stat geeks is just as bad as the people who "hate" him. I won't say I hated him, but I definitely wasn't sad to see him go. Ideally a leadoff or #2 hitter. A lot of fans didn't warm to him because he didn't jive with the player the Sox sold us when they signed him to be the #5 hitter. So a lot of that blame goes to Theo. He was never a 5 hitter and would rather take a called third strike he thought was a ball than to be aggressive at the plate and try to drive in some runs. His RBI totals were a joke and don't try telling me it's an outdated stat. You still need guys that can drive in runs.

He wasn't a great player here either. He was a solid player who was often frustrating to watch.

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05-16-2013, 04:37 PM
  #343
robert terwilliger
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your best hitter should hit second.

stephen drew missed over a month after getting hit in the head.

and sorry, but citing rbi for a guy who spent most of his time in bosting hitting behind two of the most productive hitters in the league is silly. rbi isn't a measure of how good you are at producing runs. it depends heavily on your teammates being on base in front of you. drew did his job in boston: he got on base (.370 in five years!) and played outstanding defense.

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05-16-2013, 05:21 PM
  #344
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your best hitter should hit second.
Haven't heard that before, but splitting hairs really. My overall point was that 1-5 won't be the problem with this team.

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stephen drew missed over a month after getting hit in the head.
yes, you've said this ten times now. but you always leave out the fact that he wasn't good last year or the year before either.

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and sorry, but citing rbi for a guy who spent most of his time in bosting hitting behind two of the most productive hitters in the league is silly. rbi isn't a measure of how good you are at producing runs. it depends heavily on your teammates being on base in front of you. drew did his job in boston: he got on base (.370 in five years!) and played outstanding defense.
You can disagree, but don't tell me it's silly. In fact, hitting behind great hitters is exactly why he was so frustrating. If you're hitting behind great players, there are more opportunities to drive in runs than if you were hitting in a terrible lineup. In my opinion, RBI is absolutely one measure of how good you are at producing runs...a measure he wasn't good at. I do believe that OBP is a very important stat, but it's not the only stat you should look at. That's always been my point to the people that overrated JD. Ultimately, he was meant to hit 1st or 2nd. I readily admit that if he hit in one of those spots, I'd probably feel a little differently about him. But his low RBI totals will always be a legitimate criticism to me.

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05-16-2013, 06:07 PM
  #345
robert terwilliger
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it's not really splitting hairs. it's something that's been looked into by those "stat geeks" you mentioned earlier. dan szymborski did a study that showed over the last 10 years, about every 19 nine inning games, your #3 hitter is left standing on deck as the last out is made.

drew spent most of his time in boston hitting behind manny ortiz, hitting either 5th or 6th. you can expect him to drive in runs all you want. his job wasn't to drive in runs at that point in the order, it was to get on base. obp is much more important than rbi.

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05-16-2013, 08:02 PM
  #346
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And I can disagree with the stat geeks. I guess everyone in baseball has it wrong then. Miguel cabrera should be hitting 2nd.

Robert, you love baseball and I respect your opinion. Yes, everyone tries to get on base but don't tell me a #5 hitter shouldn't be expected to drive in runs. It's more important to me than getting on base for the bottom of the order (worse hitters). We'll agree to disagree.

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05-16-2013, 09:35 PM
  #347
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Thank you mr middlebrooks

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05-16-2013, 10:04 PM
  #348
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Didn't see that comeback happening, they needed it. Middlebrooks is hopefully turning it around.

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05-16-2013, 10:06 PM
  #349
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Didn't see that comeback happening, they needed it. Middlebrooks is hopefully turning it around.
Would almost be impossible not too, right?

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05-16-2013, 10:16 PM
  #350
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Let's hope so

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