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Rielly for Edm 1st

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Old
05-16-2013, 07:58 AM
  #1
416Leafer
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Rielly for Edm 1st

Toronto needs a centre, Edmonton needs a potential franchise defenceman, especially one thats close to NHL ready. I think theres room for a deal around Rielly for Edmontons 7th overall, but only if one of Monahan/Lindholm are still on the table.

Why Toronto does this: Franchise centres dont get traded. Joe Thornton is the only example in the league of a franchise centre that was acquired via trade. M. Richards, B. Richards, Ribeiro, Roy, Carter, etc are the best calibre of centres that are semi-regularly moved via trade, and theyre a notch below what Toronto ultimately needs IMO.

Why Edmonton does this: Rielly is likely (projected to be) better and more NHL ready than any defenceman they might get at 7th overall. Similarly to franchise centres, franchise defencemen very rarely get traded (Pronger was), but a top prospect can be acquired.

Why Toronto doesnt do this: franchise centres are USUALLY found in the top 3-4 picks in the draft. Whats the realistic upside for Lindholm or Monahan? This does look like a better than average draft. So it might be an example of where you can get a Getzlaf/Giroux/etc type of non-top 5 pick franchise centre out of the draft. But theres obviously risk involved. Rielly is by far our best prospect, I really like the kid, he'd be hard to let go.

Why Edmonton doesnt do this: Similar to Torontos concerns, whats the realistic upside to Rielly? He's a bit undersized, and can make mistakes defensively. So he's not the ultimate well rounded franchise defenceman (Weber/Chara/Pietrangelo/etc) that we'd all love to have. However he does have ~Letang type of potential. Will he reach that potential? Puck movement from the back end could really help those "big 4" up front in terms of their own offensive output and help create a good puck possession team.

At the end of the day, there would be risk for both teams. As a Leafs fan, Im not even sure Id want to do this trade (I really like Rielly). But its also probably the most realistic way Toronto can try and add a potential franchise C without gutting our own franchise. We have good blueline depth longterm (Gardiner, Finn, Percy, etc are all pretty good), and we could still draft another D with our own 1st round pick (Pulock for example) which would help with the loss of Rielly.

I like both Monahan/Lindholm. I like centres that are defensively responsible, and both seem to have potential to be high-end two-way centres, which is exactly what Toronto needs IMO.


Last edited by 416Leafer: 05-16-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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05-16-2013, 08:07 AM
  #2
KaossKing
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If I was EDM, id totally do this

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05-16-2013, 08:15 AM
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morrielly
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leafs don't trade rielly. What kind of message is that setting for future picks/acquisitions? Especially for a pick lower then what we drafted him at. Rielly has done nothing but improve and if you don't care about the above, i wouldn't trade him anything short of top 4 value-wise.

also there are other ways to move up in the draft besides giving up one of the best draft picks we've made in recent years.especially for a pick where its not even a guarantee that mackinnon/drouin/barkov/lindholm/monahan are still there.

Rielly is not getting traded

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05-16-2013, 08:17 AM
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As a fan base we have predominantly seek proven NHLers if we are going to trade the pick. We are most likely breaking in Oscar Klefbom, who might start in the AHL, but IMO will be a regular on the bottom pairings sooner rather that later. We have witnessed how frustrating in can be when you're breaking in even two or three rookie forwards but could not imagine two defenceman. We are trying to make some progress sooner or later.

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05-16-2013, 08:19 AM
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KapG
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How can so many people spell his name wrong so often?

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05-16-2013, 08:24 AM
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416Leafer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morrielly View Post
leafs don't trade rielly. What kind of message is that setting for future picks/acquisitions? Especially for a pick lower then what we drafted him at. Rielly has done nothing but improve and if you don't care about the above, i wouldn't trade him anything short of top 4 value-wise.
St. Louis did it with Rundblad for Tarasenko. Did that tarnish their organizations reputation? Send a bad message? No. I dont think thats a legitimate reason.

Im not claiming to know who has the higher potential, Rielly vs Lindholm vs Monahan. And if the general consensus is that Rielly has hte highest potential of that group, you obviously wouldnt make the trade.

But if theyre considered to have comparable potential, why not make a trade from an organizational strength to try and fill the most obvious gaping hole that we have no other solutions for.

#1 centres are hard to find. Just as Winnipeg, Columbus, Phoenix, Florida, Buffalo, Calgary, etc. theyve all been looking for anything from 5-10 years, even to their entire organizations history. Toronto has been looking for about 5 years, and still no foreseeable solutions.

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05-16-2013, 08:26 AM
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At first I thought this was stupid, why would Toronto do this? Taking a second look at it, it actually makes sense if Toronto can get lindholm with the pick.

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05-16-2013, 08:40 AM
  #8
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I don't know. Rielly is quite small, but our D isn't that small. Also Monahan/Lindholm would be awesome to get... but we could also use a puck moving d-man.

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05-16-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Toronto needs a centre, Edmonton needs a potential franchise defenceman, especially one thats close to NHL ready. I think theres room for a deal around Rielly for Edmontons 7th overall, but only if one of Monahan/Lindholm are still on the table.

Why Toronto does this: Franchise centres dont get traded. Joe Thornton is the only example in the league of a franchise centre that was acquired via trade. M. Richards, B. Richards, Ribeiro, Roy, Carter, etc are the best calibre of centres that are semi-regularly moved via trade, and theyre a notch below what Toronto ultimately needs IMO.

Why Edmonton does this: Rielly is likely (projected to be) better and more NHL ready than any defenceman they might get at 7th overall. Similarly to franchise centres, franchise defencemen very rarely get traded (Pronger was), but a top prospect can be acquired.

Why Toronto doesnt do this: franchise centres are USUALLY found in the top 3-4 picks in the draft. Whats the realistic upside for Lindholm or Monahan? This does look like a better than average draft. So it might be an example of where you can get a Getzlaf/Giroux/etc type of non-top 5 pick franchise centre out of the draft. But theres obviously risk involved. Rielly is by far our best prospect, I really like the kid, he'd be hard to let go.

Why Edmonton doesnt do this: Similar to Torontos concerns, whats the realistic upside to Rielly? He's a bit undersized, and can make mistakes defensively. So he's not the ultimate well rounded franchise defenceman (Weber/Chara/Pietrangelo/etc) that we'd all love to have. However he does have ~Letang type of potential. Will he reach that potential? Puck movement from the back end could really help those "big 4" up front in terms of their own offensive output and help create a good puck possession team.

At the end of the day, there would be risk for both teams. As a Leafs fan, Im not even sure Id want to do this trade (I really like Rielly). But its also probably the most realistic way Toronto can try and add a potential franchise C without gutting our own franchise. We have good blueline depth longterm (Gardiner, Finn, Percy, etc are all pretty good), and we could still draft another D with our own 1st round pick (Pulock for example) which would help with the loss of Rielly.

I like both Monahan/Lindholm. I like centres that are defensively responsible, and both seem to have potential to be high-end two-way centres, which is exactly what Toronto needs IMO.
If I was Edmonton I would most likely make this deal. This is a major gamble by the Leafs. Reilly is right on track to being a top pairing type despite his physical limitations and defensive prowess.

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05-16-2013, 09:01 AM
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One of the reasons the Leafs thought so highly of Rielly was his character and the leadership abilities he showed at such a young age. His amazing skills are a huge part of the package but the Leafs have made an effort to draft guys lately who reek of "team first" attitude and selfless play which is why TML management feel they've hit a home run with Rielly.

I haven't been following this draft as closely as I have in previous years... but do any of these centers that could be around at 7 have these additional attributes that don't show up on the score sheet?

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05-16-2013, 09:24 AM
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thadd
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I honestly can't see either team doing this.

Edmonton needs to draft a center more than a defenseman at this point.

As for Toronto... why give up on a prospect who's looking really great at this point?

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05-16-2013, 09:36 AM
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Agree with some of the other posters. It's certainly fair from a value perspective, but:
1) If we trade we'd sacrifice upside for certainty
2) Reilly brings what Schultz has... we need a more 'all-around' #2D or 1bD
3) Klefbom is coming in... then Marincin. Too many inexeperienced guys to break in... see #1 again
4) We need a solid two-way C to complement Nuge just as much (maybe more) than another young Dman

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05-16-2013, 09:58 AM
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Toronto would be better off trying to sign Malkin in the summer.

Just stick with your guy. He will be a solid defenseman.

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05-16-2013, 10:02 AM
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Wait, so Toronto trades last years 5th overall pick for this years 7th overall?

Doesn't make sense for Toronto. Rielly is looking very good. No way Nonis trades him.

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05-16-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
I honestly can't see either team doing this.

Edmonton needs to draft a center more than a defenseman at this point.

As for Toronto... why give up on a prospect who's looking really great at this point?
Pretty much. No reason for a trade like this to happen.

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05-16-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
I honestly can't see either team doing this.

Edmonton needs to draft a center more than a defenseman at this point.

As for Toronto... why give up on a prospect who's looking really great at this point?
Edmonton needs a blue chip defenseman just as much as a 2nd/3rd line center. And which are harder to come by?

I'm an Oilers fan, and I'd strongly consider it.

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05-16-2013, 10:11 AM
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I'm not convinced Monahan or Lindholm will be there at 7th, anyway.

You've got the big three, then I expect Barkov to Nashville, Monahan to Carolina and Lindholm to Calgary.

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05-16-2013, 10:11 AM
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Edmonton needs a blue chip defenseman just as much as a 2nd/3rd line center. And which are harder to come by?

I'm an Oilers fan, and I'd strongly consider it.
And as per the Leafs, they already have a lot of d-men, so if they feel getting a Monahan or Nichushkin is more valuable than having a Reilly, then they may do it too, although I believe they are content with having Reilly and would want a small extra piece.

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05-16-2013, 10:13 AM
  #19
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Toronto would be better off trying to sign Malkin in the summer.

Just stick with your guy. He will be a solid defenseman.
Not really, since he's signed through next season.

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05-16-2013, 10:16 AM
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EDM probably needs a Nurse more than a Reilly espeially with J.Schultz in the fold.
Good proposal though value wise.

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05-16-2013, 10:17 AM
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How can so many people spell his name wrong so often?
Generally it's because he spells it differently than most

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05-16-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Edmonton needs a blue chip defenseman just as much as a 2nd/3rd line center. And which are harder to come by?

I'm an Oilers fan, and I'd strongly consider it.
Edmonton needs defensemen who can play now. They already have Klefbom coming in next season and Marincin soon after, they need proven defensemen. Also, the center depth in the organization is atrocious.
If the Oilers deal the pick, it will likely be in a package for a top pairing defenseman who can help the team now. Otherwise, they would be better served to draft a blue chip center.

I don't see why Toronto would deal Rielly for a pick outside the top 5? They already have Rielly who is one of the best prospects in the world, whoever is available at 7 is a complete unknown. If they dealt him for the pick and the top centers are all gone, then they would feel pretty stupid.

The value is there or perhaps favoring the Oilers somewhat but i don't see the need for either team to do it.

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05-16-2013, 10:20 AM
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416Leafer
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
EDM probably needs a Nurse more than a Reilly espeially with J.Schultz in the fold.
Good proposal though value wise.
I agree. I just don't think Nurse will make it to the 7th overall pick. I think Carolina will take him. Nichuskin is a wild-card though, he could bump Nurse and/or Lindholm down to the 7th spot (I expect Lindholm to go ahead of Monahan as well).

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05-16-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by KapG View Post
How can so many people spell his name wrong so often?
actually OP spelled it rIElly, which is correct

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/morgan_rielly/

just because its an unconventional spelling doesnt make it wrong

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05-16-2013, 10:47 AM
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416Leafer
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post

I don't see why Toronto would deal Rielly for a pick outside the top 5? They already have Rielly who is one of the best prospects in the world, whoever is available at 7 is a complete unknown.
How is trading a 19 year old for an 18 year old going from one of the best prospects in the world to a complete unknown? The day after the draft, if people ranked the worlds top prospects, the top guys from the 2013 draft will be considered among the best prospects in the world.

As per the OP, Toronto would only do the trade IF the player they wanted was available at 7 (so after the 6th overall pick has been made). So you'd be comparing a specific prospect (Lindholm or Monahan) to Rielly who is only a year older, hasn't played in the NHL, and whose upside is similarly difficult to accurately project.

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