HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Tampa Bay Lightning
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013 NHL Draft Discussion Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-28-2013, 08:05 PM
  #701
Glide5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrior4321 View Post
Now that we can finally discuss Jones,

Is Jones NHL ready?
The only reason I would say yes, Jones is ready, is because EVERY scouting report I have seen on him has said he would be ready to go. It would probably be be best to give him at least 1 season in the AHL though, just to see how he handles it (although this applies to most prospects).

I still don't think the Avs or the panthers will pass on him, though. I would love it if they did. A defensive line-up of Hedman-Jones, Carle-Gudas, Aulie-Koekkoek, Barbio would be pretty damn scary for any team to deal with one day. (Obviously the line-ups are just made up, but it still looks good haha)

Glide5 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 09:10 PM
  #702
Nuck This
Registered User
 
Nuck This's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,203
vCash: 500
Would you guys do a deal of Edler for your 3rd overall. Obviously other parts included, but Edler is still young so he'd help you win now and in the future, with the next wave of players, while eliminating any risks that involve draft picks. You could reunite him with Salo.

Nuck This is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #703
dbieon12
IAMAGOD
 
dbieon12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,277
vCash: 500
Does this change opinions?

Nichushkin '100 percent sure' he's ready for NHL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Morreale on NHL.com
Asked how confident he is that he will play in the NHL in 2013-14, Nichushkin said, "100 percent sure."
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18029

__________________
.
Be the Thunder.
dbieon12 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 09:16 PM
  #704
FrancoRussianAlaskan
Liter-a-cola
 
FrancoRussianAlaskan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pensacola, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,515
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glide5 View Post
The only reason I would say yes, Jones is ready, is because EVERY scouting report I have seen on him has said he would be ready to go. It would probably be be best to give him at least 1 season in the AHL though, just to see how he handles it (although this applies to most prospects).
It's NHL or WHL since Jones will be drafted out of the CHL.

FrancoRussianAlaskan is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 09:23 PM
  #705
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
Rated [SFY]
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbieon12 View Post
Does this change opinions?

Nichushkin '100 percent sure' he's ready for NHL



http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18029
Actually yes, but not the part you quoted.

Quote:
Sports agent Mark Gandler confirmed to NHL.com Tuesday that his top draft-eligible client, Russian right wing Valeri Nichushkin, has terminated his contract with Moscow Dynamo in order to play in North America next season. But there is a provision.

"If he's not playing in the NHL, he's going to have to play for Dynamo," Gandler told NHL.com. "The termination [of his contract] occurred without compensation to the team. This is what we would owe the team for that provision."
Quote:
The agent also confirmed that the team drafting Nichushkin will know the terms of the Dynamo contract.

"The team drafting him will know that they would have to assign him to Dynamo if he wasn't playing for their team," Gandler said. "It could happen during the season or it could happen prior to training camp or during training camp. But I strongly believe Nichushkin is more ready for the NHL than a majority of players over the past 10 years who played in the NHL right after the draft."
So if I'm reading this right, there was some confusion and a problem with translation about Nichushkin's intentions. Maybe it wasn't that he didn't want to play in the AHL or CHL, but he couldn't as part of his agreement with Dynamo. That sounds a lot better than an attitude problem.

Also if Mark Gandler sounds familiar, he was the agent of Artyukhin.

__________________
VL4ever
"It's still All In to me dammit." - Felonious Python
TheDaysOf 04 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 09:45 PM
  #706
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuck This View Post
Would you guys do a deal of Edler for your 3rd overall. Obviously other parts included, but Edler is still young so he'd help you win now and in the future, with the next wave of players, while eliminating any risks that involve draft picks. You could reunite him with Salo.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 10:17 PM
  #707
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Actually yes, but not the part you quoted.


So if I'm reading this right, there was some confusion and a problem with translation about Nichushkin's intentions. Maybe it wasn't that he didn't want to play in the AHL or CHL, but he couldn't as part of his agreement with Dynamo. That sounds a lot better than an attitude problem.

Also if Mark Gandler sounds familiar, he was the agent of Artyukhin.
That makes a lot more sense to me. Didn't seem right that an 18 year old kid was saying he was playing in the NHL this year or he was gonna Radulov back to Russia.

MattM92 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 10:37 PM
  #708
chasespace
Registered User
 
chasespace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Williston, FL
Posts: 4,440
vCash: 500
If the provision of the termination of his contract is if he is sent down he has to be loaned to Dynamo(most likely for the season) I would be on board with that. Obviously you would prefer him in the AHL but so long as we still own his contract it should work out for Tampa in the end.

Now the question is, do you take him at 3rd or whoever is left out of Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin?

chasespace is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 10:44 PM
  #709
Follower of Yzlam
#FreeDrouin
 
Follower of Yzlam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 12,747
vCash: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasespace View Post
If the provision of the termination of his contract is if he is sent down he has to be loaned to Dynamo(most likely for the season) I would be on board with that. Obviously you would prefer him in the AHL but so long as we still own his contract it should work out for Tampa in the end.

Now the question is, do you take him at 3rd or whoever is left out of Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin?
I seriously can't imagine anyone thinking Nichushkin is the better pick, especially after the Memorial Cup when all three of the top prospects played like the top 3 prospects. This isn't the Russian factor, it's the talent factor.

Follower of Yzlam is online now  
Old
05-28-2013, 10:54 PM
  #710
Pontius Palat
Blame Gudas Iscariot
 
Pontius Palat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
I seriously can't imagine anyone thinking Nichushkin is the better pick, especially after the Memorial Cup when all three of the top prospects played like the top 3 prospects. This isn't the Russian factor, it's the talent factor.
I dunno, I really find myself switching back and forth every week. According to Murray, Nichushkin had the "most dominant performance" at the U18 tournament he's ever seen so there's probably a bit of a "what have you done for me lately?" type sentiment goin' on. It really is about a coin flip to see who'll be better in 5 years, and if Murray picks him he'll have a good reason to. I'm a big fan of Drouin and honestly would love to have him over Nichushkin but it's not much of a drop off.

Pontius Palat is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 10:55 PM
  #711
B2k3
#Yzerteam
 
B2k3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Gainesville, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 314
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
This isn't the Russian factor, it's the talent factor.
You listening Steve?!?!

B2k3 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:10 PM
  #712
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chasespace View Post
If the provision of the termination of his contract is if he is sent down he has to be loaned to Dynamo(most likely for the season) I would be on board with that. Obviously you would prefer him in the AHL but so long as we still own his contract it should work out for Tampa in the end.

Now the question is, do you take him at 3rd or whoever is left out of Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin?
Whoever's left out of Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin AINEC.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:12 PM
  #713
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
I dunno, I really find myself switching back and forth every week. According to Murray, Nichushkin had the "most dominant performance" at the U18 tournament he's ever seen so there's probably a bit of a "what have you done for me lately?" type sentiment goin' on. It really is about a coin flip to see who'll be better in 5 years, and if Murray picks him he'll have a good reason to. I'm a big fan of Drouin and honestly would love to have him over Nichushkin but it's not much of a drop off.
Every other scout said he was largely underwhelming and completely outperformed by other players in the U-18's this year. From the very limited viewings I saw in that tournament, he looked like more of a passenger than a dominating force. Maybe Murray was talking about the World Jrs (where he was more dominant) and accidentally said the U-18's?

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:13 PM
  #714
Follower of Yzlam
#FreeDrouin
 
Follower of Yzlam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 12,747
vCash: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by KoekkoekPuffs View Post
I dunno, I really find myself switching back and forth every week. According to Murray, Nichushkin had the "most dominant performance" at the U18 tournament he's ever seen so there's probably a bit of a "what have you done for me lately?" type sentiment goin' on. It really is about a coin flip to see who'll be better in 5 years, and if Murray picks him he'll have a good reason to. I'm a big fan of Drouin and honestly would love to have him over Nichushkin but it's not much of a drop off.
Looking at the stat line it's not incredibly impressive... 3 goals, 4 assists in 6 games against what we can assume is inferior competition, and 9 points total in his two trips.

For comparison Ovechkin had 13 points in 6 games at the U-18, Malkin had 9 and 8 in his two years at the U-18, Kuznetzov 25 in his two trips, Tarasenko 15 in 8 games in his one trip, and Kovalchuk 20 in his two trips...

I mean, he's not even outproducing Tarasenko and Kuznetzov here, not to mention not sniffing Ovi, Malkin, or Kovy. I don't get where this supposed dominance is coming from. And at the WJC he only scored 2 points (although looked pretty good), and had 18 points this season in the KHL (while producing much better in the playoffs). I haven't seen many actual games of his outside of the WJC, but nothing screams top prospect at me from my viewings or the stat lines.

Meanwhile, Drouin had a good Memorial Cup (overshadowed by a dominant performance by Mac, but still very good), a good WJC, and an absolutely ridiculous season/playoffs in the Q. At every step, he has shown himself to be a top prospect. He's smaller (but let's not pretend he's Marty size) and not quite as good of a top-end skater, but I can't see any argument other than some weird fascination with Russians to pick Nichushkin. I think there's a reverse-Russian factor going on here, expecting him to be something way greater than he is based off of nothing more than him being the best Russian in this draft.

I have no problem drafting the BPA no matter their nationality. I approve of Vasilevski over Subban because I think he's the better goaltender, and I liked picking up Namestikov, so I don't have an anti-Russian bias here. I just literally don't understand what's so much better about Nichushkin.

Follower of Yzlam is online now  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:13 PM
  #715
MattM92
Registered User
 
MattM92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
Whoever's left out of Jones/MacKinnon/Drouin AINEC.
Wouldn't say "AINEC". It is pretty close, otherwise Nichushkin wouldn't be in this discussion.

MattM92 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:15 PM
  #716
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pronounced Anders View Post
Looking at the stat line it's not incredibly impressive... 3 goals, 4 assists in 6 games against what we can assume is inferior competition, and 9 points total in his two trips.

For comparison Ovechkin had 13 points in 6 games at the U-18, Malkin had 9 and 8 in his two years at the U-18, Kuznetzov 25 in his two trips, Tarasenko 15 in 8 games in his one trip, and Kovalchuk 20 in his two trips...

I mean, he's not even outproducing Tarasenko and Kuznetzov here, not to mention not sniffing Ovi, Malkin, or Kovy. I don't get where this supposed dominance is coming from. And at the WJC he only scored 2 points (although looked pretty good), and had 18 points this season in the KHL (while producing much better in the playoffs). I haven't seen many actual games of his outside of the WJC, but nothing screams top prospect at me from my viewings or the stat lines.

Meanwhile, Drouin had a good Memorial Cup (overshadowed by a dominant performance by Mac, but still very good), a good WJC, and an absolutely ridiculous season/playoffs in the Q. At every step, he has shown himself to be a top prospect. He's smaller (but let's not pretend he's Marty size) and not quite as good of a top-end skater, but I can't see any argument other than some weird fascination with Russians to pick Nichushkin. I think there's a reverse-Russian factor going on here, expecting him to be something way greater than he is based off of nothing more than him being the best Russian in this draft.

I have no problem drafting the BPA no matter their nationality. I approve of Vasilevski over Subban because I think he's the better goaltender, and I liked picking up Namestikov, so I don't have an anti-Russian bias here. I just literally don't understand what's so much better about Nichushkin.
This every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Agreed 100%.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:17 PM
  #717
Follower of Yzlam
#FreeDrouin
 
Follower of Yzlam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 12,747
vCash: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
Wouldn't say "AINEC". It is pretty close, otherwise Nichushkin wouldn't be in this discussion.
Who is he in the discussion with? Every reputable scouting bureau has the 1-2-3 in some order, and many have Nichushkin around 5 or 6 (and picking even lower based on team needs).

Honestly, if we're going to throw away this pick on someone that isn't Mac/Jones/Drouin, I'd rather do it on Nurse, since at least that makes some sense from an organizational standpoint, or maybe Barkov since we're kind of thin at C. We have enough talented wingers, and adding one that isn't an elite prospect (which Nichushkin isn't) doesn't make sense.

Follower of Yzlam is online now  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:17 PM
  #718
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
Wouldn't say "AINEC". It is pretty close, otherwise Nichushkin wouldn't be in this discussion.
It really isn't close imo. Of course, as we've established I'm not a professional scout, but it's there for everyone to see that Nichushkin is a slightly inferior talent to the top 3 (relatively speaking I've seen about 12-15 games of both). Nichushkin is worth taking in the top 5, but the top 3 are above 4th and 5th (I'll admit that I've had more limited viewings of Barkov though...).

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:18 PM
  #719
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
Rated [SFY]
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18033

Joe McDonnell, Detroit's director of amateur scouting, on the "Top 3"
Quote:
"You have your few high-end defensemen Seth Jones, Darnell Nurse and Nikita Zadorov, but overall I think it's a forward group," McDonnell said. "It's almost a what-are-you-looking-for type of draft. What do you need, and just pick one. I especially think that's the case for a team in the top 10. The players available are all so close and tight … even when you get past the top three, the list goes on and on."

McDonnell was quick to point out that though Jones of the Portland Winterhawks and Halifax Mooseheads teammates Nathan MacKinnon and Jonathan Drouin are exceptional talents, they aren't heads and shoulders ahead of other players in this year's class.

"I wouldn't say the top three are miles ahead of everyone else," McDonnell said. "It's a tight group from No. 3 to No. 15 … it could be anybody. It's a good year if you have a certain need; there's probably someone there for you."

TheDaysOf 04 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:27 PM
  #720
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
http://www.nhl.com/ice/blogpost.htm?id=18033

Joe McDonnell, Detroit's director of amateur scouting, on the "Top 3"
I would trust his assessment more if his name were Hakan Andersson (Director of European Scouting for the Wings) or if he actually had more success in the first round of drafts (outside of Smith and Kronwall -latter scouted by Andersson-, and to a lesser extent Fischer and Kindl, there isn't much in the way of good 1st round picks). Granted, his comments are obviously more credible than any of ours since he's a pro and scouts for a living.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:30 PM
  #721
TheDaysOf 04
Moderator
Rated [SFY]
 
TheDaysOf 04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 18,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Bay Trio View Post
I would trust his assessment more if his name were Hakan Andersson (Director of European Scouting for the Wings) or if he actually had more success in the first round of drafts (outside of Smith and Kronwall (latter scouted by Andersson), and to a lesser extent Fischer and Kindl, there isn't much in the way of good 1st round picks). Granted, his comments are obviously more credible than any of ours since he's a pro and scouts for a living.
Yeah, his is just as another opinion to read but it's interesting to hear what other scouts say.

TheDaysOf 04 is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:35 PM
  #722
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaysOf 04 View Post
Yeah, his is just as another opinion to read but it's interesting to hear what other scouts say.
Very interesting indeed. Gives us more confidence if we do somehow pick someone outside of the widely regarded big 3. I'm hoping for the best, but still largely ready for the worst.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:36 PM
  #723
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=6...d=nhl:topheads

Uhh, should we call up Roy?

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:41 PM
  #724
The Wyzerhood
A league of his own
 
The Wyzerhood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,935
vCash: 500
I think the Drouin vs. Nichushkin debate really comes down to if you'd rather have P.Kane/Marty 2.0 or Rick Nash. Each of us have our own individual preferences, as we should.

For me, a skilled power forward type player like Nichushkin/Nash needs a playmaker, which Stamkos is not a natural at. Despite Stammer not being a slouch in that area, he's a much better sniper than playmaker and we should find the player who will best complement that part of his game, which for me, is the silky smooth, intelligent and playmaking, Drouin.

The Wyzerhood is offline  
Old
05-28-2013, 11:59 PM
  #725
Glide5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 919
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancoRussianAlaskan View Post
It's NHL or WHL since Jones will be drafted out of the CHL.
Haha I always forget about those rules. NHL it would be then.

Glide5 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.