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KHL Expansion part II

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Old
09-03-2013, 11:56 PM
  #876
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Originally Posted by obskyr View Post
Nothing about the KHL in Sochi is a must. But still relocation would be the lesser evil in this case. It doesn't mean that option is a necessary decision, it's just better than another Admiral.
I am in total agreement.


Lets not forget what hurt the NHL... expansion of the NHL had extremely negative effects on the quality of the NHL. Hence, expansion should be limited in the KHL.

Relocation in my opinion would be ideal in this case. The reason why is because there are way too many teams in the Moscow area, way way way too many teams.

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09-04-2013, 02:23 AM
  #877
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Vityaz going to Sochi was unofficially decided almost 3 years ago now. It's gonna happen people, move on.

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09-04-2013, 02:57 AM
  #878
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Under the name Vityaz or it will get a total rebranding?

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09-04-2013, 05:36 AM
  #879
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Under the name Vityaz or it will get a total rebranding?
As far as I know it is a full rebrand. They have abandoned their old goonish ways and have a new system. New people running things, new types of players. Everything is new. Hopefully next year we will be seeing something like Sochi Sprut or whatever. Something really drastic would have to happen this year to change that.

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09-04-2013, 10:17 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
As far as I know it is a full rebrand. They have abandoned their old goonish ways and have a new system. New people running things, new types of players. Everything is new. Hopefully next year we will be seeing something like Sochi Sprut or whatever. Something really drastic would have to happen this year to change that.
What are your sources?

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09-04-2013, 04:58 PM
  #881
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What are your sources?
Personal contacts.

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09-04-2013, 06:08 PM
  #882
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I personally expect very low attendance in Sochi. They need a marketing genius to make this work, otherwise it's gonna be kind of embarrassing

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09-06-2013, 08:04 AM
  #883
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I don't know if this will add much, or if this has been posted somewhere else on this forum, but here is an article I saw about the Norwegian team Stavanger Oilers.

http://beta.aftenbladet.no/100Sport/...d#.UinOENIwfKO

The headline reads "The price for professionalization", and the article is about the clubs goals, the success and the cost and sacrifices.

This season they have not been playing any pre-season games against any local teams from their own league, they have only played against "better" opponents, among some are teams from Switzerland(NLA), Slovakia(Extraliga) and Sweden(SHL, Allsvenskan).

And their goals for the future are as follows:
1. To take the throne as the number one club in Norway. (already achieved as they have won three golds in four seasons, have the best economy, best arena, most attendants etc.)
2. To establish a name abroad. (last season and forward)
3. To win the Continental Cup. (this season)
4. To qualify for/enter the European Trophy. (next season)
5. To join Europe's best hockey league, the KHL. (only mentioned as a dream-goal)

I think the club has some great goals, to put it mildly. And I wish them all success.

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09-06-2013, 08:23 AM
  #884
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I dont know if Stavanger Oilers has chance to join KHL. Many new things happened during last couple of months. On the other hand, I am sure that if there is WILL and PROFESIONALISM to join, all problems can be solved. Who knows? Maybe Swedes will say NO to KHL once again and Oilers joins and signs many Swedes.

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09-06-2013, 02:03 PM
  #885
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Norway should be a priority on the KHL's mind. Lot's of unttaped potential and money.

THERES GOLD IN DEM DER HILLS!

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09-11-2013, 01:53 AM
  #886
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Norway should be a priority on the KHL's mind. Lot's of unttaped potential and money.

THERES GOLD IN DEM DER HILLS!
I'd prefer Berlin.

Check their attendance - scroll down here, http://www.eurohockey.com/article/24...ing-again.html

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09-11-2013, 03:11 PM
  #887
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With the new plans to further develop European Trophy to a real European competition with 40 teams I guess further KHL expansion to the west becomes more than unrealistic. I guess 2-4 Russian clubs will come and that's it.

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09-11-2013, 03:17 PM
  #888
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
With the new plans to further develop European Trophy to a real European competition with 40 teams I guess further KHL expansion to the west becomes more than unrealistic. I guess 2-4 Russian clubs will come and that's it.
Man, I can not agree with you. Everything works for KHL´s expansion to Western Europe. Of course not next year, but sooner than you can imagine. That is a plan and it works...

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09-11-2013, 03:18 PM
  #889
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
With the new plans to further develop European Trophy to a real European competition with 40 teams I guess further KHL expansion to the west becomes more than unrealistic. I guess 2-4 Russian clubs will come and that's it.
What has this to do with the KHL as a league? They only need one team in a couple of west countries to become totally dominant on this continent. Maybe one swiss, german and swedish would seal the deal. Hopefully they will participate in the ET as well though so that the western european teams in the KHL can get to fight it out against other teams in their country for some kind of unofficial national title. Probably this friendly tournament would turn to "friendly" then. KHL participation could be nothing but good for european hockey that's for sure.


Last edited by Darth Yoda: 09-11-2013 at 03:26 PM.
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09-11-2013, 04:13 PM
  #890
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
With the new plans to further develop European Trophy to a real European competition with 40 teams I guess further KHL expansion to the west becomes more than unrealistic. I guess 2-4 Russian clubs will come and that's it.
Lol European Trophy joke, so there are plans to further develop it? Then it's game over, khl have no chance and it should be disbanded. Lol but if serious right now it's just a worthless pre season distraction, and it really wont matter if there participate teams that are now or they find further 20 **** ones from 2nd tier leagues. I heard there are still few quite good ones in allsvenkan

Come on, like they will ask Russian clubs in, or they would apply, but who knows. Maybe there will be huge money prices and prestige in winning it all


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09-12-2013, 12:33 AM
  #891
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
I'd prefer Berlin.

Check their attendance - scroll down here, http://www.eurohockey.com/article/24...ing-again.html
Me too actually. If Berlin, Bern and Djurgården would join the KHL I would imagine that Medvedev would be very pleased, as well as all of us KHL fans.

All are capital city teams, all have great history and all are very successful(except for the most recent years for Djurgården). And keep in mind that they will have a team from the Finnish capital soon also, and from Before already have one from the capitals of Czech Rep. and Slovakia.

I think that a team from Switzerland, Germany and Sweden should be the highest priority.

A team from Austria, Italy, Norway etc. should be more of a "back-up" plan if for example no Swedish team enters for many years they should concider for example Stavanger Oilers. Or if no team from Swizerland joins they should consider Austria or Italy.

Also I still root for Beijing.

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09-12-2013, 12:36 AM
  #892
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Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
Me too actually. If Berlin, Bern and Djurgården would join the KHL I would imagine that Medvedev would be very pleased, as well as all of us KHL fans.

All are capital city teams, all have great history and all are very successful(except for the most recent years for Djurgården). And keep in mind that they will have a team from the Finnish capital soon also, and from Before already have one from the capitals of Czech Rep. and Slovakia.

I think that a team from Switzerland, Germany and Sweden should be the highest priority.

A team from Austria, Italy, Norway etc. should be more of a "back-up" plan if for example no Swedish team enters for many years they should concider for example Stavanger Oilers. Or if no team from Swizerland joins they should consider Austria or Italy.

Also I still root for Beijing.
I am all for contracting some teams, such as Yurga and Medvescak. Right now they're okay, they serve their purpose. But in the longer scheme of things, Croatia is a relatively low income country compared to Germany or other big shots in Western Europe. Hence it's better to go for those big shots, and leave this cyrillic-hating country's team face the fate of HK Poprad. But keep in mind, their place in the EBEL league is really fine, in all honesty. Yet, they play a very important role at the moment, to help show western countries/cities/teams that it is worthwhile to make a team, and that the risks are relatively low. I bet that their presence influenced the Finnish team in deciding to join. And we need the countries where there is more capital... more money to milk from those populations ya know.


China's population lacks the personal expendable capital that we can see in western european countries.
Norway's Oilers team is from too small a place - if it joins it better be temporary, a HK poprad example, to get a second team in Oslo.
Switzerland - only if it's HC Bern.
Sweden - might be a hard nut to crack, either way, they gotta join the beast or be eaten by it sooner or later.
Italy - yes. Come on Milan, come on...
Austria - Vienna would be nice.

Also, it does not matter in what order things happen. And, it is not even necessary to have a team in all those cities.

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Old
09-12-2013, 02:12 AM
  #893
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
I am all for contracting some teams, such as Yurga and Medvescak. Right now they're okay, they serve their purpose. But in the longer scheme of things, Croatia is a relatively low income country compared to Germany or other big shots in Western Europe. Hence it's better to go for those big shots, and leave this cyrillic-hating country's team face the fate of HK Poprad. But keep in mind, their place in the EBEL league is really fine, in all honesty. Yet, they play a very important role at the moment, to help show western countries/cities/teams that it is worthwhile to make a team, and that the risks are relatively low. I bet that their presence influenced the Finnish team in deciding to join. And we need the countries where there is more capital... more money to milk from those populations ya know.


China's population lacks the personal expendable capital that we can see in western european countries.
Norway's Oilers team is from too small a place - if it joins it better be temporary, a HK poprad example, to get a second team in Oslo.
Switzerland - only if it's HC Bern.
Sweden - might be a hard nut to crack, either way, they gotta join the beast or be eaten by it sooner or later.
Italy - yes. Come on Milan, come on...
Austria - Vienna would be nice.

Also, it does not matter in what order things happen. And, it is not even necessary to have a team in all those cities.
I believe Croatia is a great idea actually, and i believe they have shown in the past that they can fill even Arena Zagreb that takes 15.000 people. The populations income will only rise in the future.
Beijing has enough middle class to support a team if it is marketed good, and if the market in itself wants to be lured.
In Switzerland i believe that planned team Helvetics would fill the role good as well if they manage to grab many of that nations national team players. If for no other reason that it would be easier for fans of different teams there to start rooting for the team than if say HC Bern would join. It is good that it's such a small country geographically speaking becouse it would be more or less easy for fans to travel to the games wherever they live.
On that line when it comes to a swedish team i would really prefer a totally new team here as well, one that plays half their games in Stockholm, and one fourth of them in Gothenburg and Malmö respectively. This way the team can take top dollars for each individual ticket becouse of the fewer games in each place. Becouse Sweden is such a big country geographically this would be my dream not the least since it would be hard for many outside Stockholm(And most of all fans of AIK Solna) to root for Djurgården. I mean i would, but i'm just not sure how many would feel like me. Stockholm is also not really a bonafide hockey city although they like events and if top notch hockey would be offered perhaps they'll melt. It is unfortuante if the KHL feel that Scandinavium in Gothenburg is too old becouse we only have one team in this town and fans during at least somewhat good conditions packs the 12044 seats in that arena.


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09-12-2013, 02:42 AM
  #894
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Imo, medvescak is here to stay as long as they are top 20 attendance wise in europe. There are simply too many russian teams with really low attendance and there is no reason for the khl to dump hockey mad market like zagreb, no matter how poor we are. And if rosneft buy croatian oil company ina, which might happen according to bloomberg, medvescak will be in the khl for a long time.

Ioppa please leave the politics out of this discussion.


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09-12-2013, 09:48 AM
  #895
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
I am all for contracting some teams, such as Yurga and Medvescak. Right now they're okay, they serve their purpose. But in the longer scheme of things, Croatia is a relatively low income country compared to Germany or other big shots in Western Europe. Hence it's better to go for those big shots, and leave this cyrillic-hating country's team face the fate of HK Poprad. But keep in mind, their place in the EBEL league is really fine, in all honesty. Yet, they play a very important role at the moment, to help show western countries/cities/teams that it is worthwhile to make a team, and that the risks are relatively low. I bet that their presence influenced the Finnish team in deciding to join. And we need the countries where there is more capital... more money to milk from those populations ya know.
Nope, absolutely no significance. It's all on Harkimo and money.

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09-12-2013, 10:06 AM
  #896
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I believe Croatia is a great idea actually, and i believe they have shown in the past that they can fill even Arena Zagreb that takes 15.000 people. The populations income will only rise in the future.
Many places in eastern europe remain poor. Notice how the developing world remains developing and serves western interests? That's exactly what tends to happen, neocolonialism. Incomes there do not really rise - perhaps average, but that's the ones at the top getting richer and richer.

I feel that Croatia is a great idea too. Absolutely great. Just like HK Poprad was. It will show western countries that it is not a bad thing to join the KHL, and it will basically open the door for others. Hence having Croatia in there is absolutely necessary.


Quote:
Imo, medvescak is here to stay as long as they are top 20 attendance wise in europe. There are simply too many russian teams with really low attendance and there is no reason for the khl to dump hockey mad market like zagreb, no matter how poor we are. And if rosneft buy croatian oil company ina, which might happen according to bloomberg, medvescak will be in the khl for a long time.

Ioppa please leave the politics out of this discussion.
They bought up oil companies and pipelines in hungary, serbia, and elsewhere. That's purely for their own vested self interest.
It is true that the KHL has russian teams that are not spectacular. But they are moving in the direction for things to be better. They are steadily building new arenas, and I hope that teams such as Yurga will not be part of the league in the near future, that they will be replaced by teams with better arenas, in bigger cities.

I do see the Zagreb team being there alright for some time. Maybe a few seasons. I do not see them being there long term though. For now though it is important to have them there.

Politics are alas very important, orthodoxy and cyrillic are unwelcome things in Croatia. The father of croatian culture, starcevic, based croatian identity on hating those two things for example. They protest against cyrillic writing there. Doesn't seem very compatible with russian hockey - and the KHL is afterall still, and will remain, a mainly russian league/project.


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Nope, absolutely no significance. It's all on Harkimo and money.
I'm sure it had some significance. If there were no teams in the league outside of the former soviet union, then I really bet that there would not be any sort of expansion in Finland.

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Old
09-12-2013, 11:58 AM
  #897
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I'm sure it had some significance.
No, we couldn't care less about a team in Croatia in Finland. 100% irrelevant. This is 100% due to Harkimo wanting to cut losses on Hartwall Areena and Jokerit, he's admitted it himself. Zagreb has not been mentioned a single time as a reason by him. So please, stop flattering/fooling yourself.


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09-12-2013, 01:15 PM
  #898
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Me too actually. If Berlin, Bern and Djurgården would join the KHL I would imagine that Medvedev would be very pleased, as well as all of us KHL fans.
Hardly imaginable that Berlin ever joins KHL without any other German teams given the fact that their average attendance is around 14,100 and 90% of their games are sold out. There they have guaranteed 35 home games with playoffs together while in KHL you only have 27 games guaranteed and nobody knows how many people would watch Severstal, Vityaz, Avtomobilist, Yugra, Novokuznetsk etc.

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09-12-2013, 02:35 PM
  #899
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Hardly imaginable that Berlin ever joins KHL without any other German teams given the fact that their average attendance is around 14,100 and 90% of their games are sold out. There they have guaranteed 35 home games with playoffs together while in KHL you only have 27 games guaranteed and nobody knows how many people would watch Severstal, Vityaz, Avtomobilist, Yugra, Novokuznetsk etc.
A Finnish hockey magazine did a multi-spread story on them last season and based on that they strike as the last team to consider(or need) playing in KHL. Financially stable, fans very committed.

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09-12-2013, 02:47 PM
  #900
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They bought up oil companies and pipelines in hungary, serbia, and elsewhere. That's purely for their own vested self interest.
yes, gazprom has bought serbian oil company and then they became a general sponsor of red star belgrade football club and reportedly paying around 6m euros per year fot that. i would imagine that rosneft might invest even more money in medveščak since, well, they play a russian league.




Quote:
Originally Posted by loppa View Post
It is true that the KHL has russian teams that are not spectacular. But they are moving in the direction for things to be better. They are steadily building new arenas, and I hope that teams such as Yurga will not be part of the league in the near future, that they will be replaced by teams with better arenas, in bigger cities.

I do see the Zagreb team being there alright for some time. Maybe a few seasons. I do not see them being there long term though. For now though it is important to have them there.
only time will tell, but it's hard to imagine any of them could sellout 15200 seat arena 7 games in a row anytime soon.

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Politics are alas very important, orthodoxy and cyrillic are unwelcome things in Croatia. The father of croatian culture, starcevic, based croatian identity on hating those two things for example. They protest against cyrillic writing there. Doesn't seem very compatible with russian hockey - and the KHL is afterall still, and will remain, a mainly russian league/project.
dunno, i saw many Согаз, МегаФон and other cyrillic billboards all around dom sportova. the fact that 1000 people in vukovar, who lost their family members during serbian agression, protest because of cyrillic denotements, it doesn't mean orthodoxy and cyrillic are unwelcome things in croatia in general.


besides, iirc, there was/is a waffen ss monument somwhere in latvia and it didn't prevent dinamo riga to become an important memeber of the khl.

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