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KHL Expansion part II

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05-01-2013, 06:13 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
For some reason people dismiss the Czech Republic. Jussi, wouldn't the Czech Republic not have it worse than Finland? Because not only do they have the problems you mentioned about Finland, but they also get a boatload if juniors leaving to the OHL on a constant basis.
The problems they have are multiplied compared to Finland. We still have players and resources, we just don't have the knowledge/competence to fix them (junior development). You'll find no Finn disagreeing with this notion. Our sport chiefs (in all sports) continually talk of changing this and that to fix things yet none of them know how.

As for why Finns won't jump at a chance of supporting a newly created club for KHL, it's the same as in Sweden. Loyalty to existing clubs, lack of fans for a new club, gloryhunter/bandwagon mentality of sports fansand the minimal chance of success for such a club.

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05-01-2013, 06:53 PM
  #127
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I have reevaluated my opinion and will say that it is too early to tell. My competence lies more in North American hockey and I don't want to go deeper into this discussion when it is clear that you Scandinavians seen to have a unanimous hard line 'no' on the matter(although I don't think that posters on this forum, myself included, are indicative of real world large scale hockey populations). Aside from the NHL, I enjoy watching and following the KHL because they have improved and internationalized their product to be more attractive to a wide range of audiences as opposed to just their domestic one. I think we can all agree that the KHL has been a positive force in world hockey. And as hockey fans we should be able to respect that. They have a clear goal and strategy to improve, and to that extent they have.
I cannot find or follow the Finnish league, and the most the Eliteserien will do for an international audience is run an English blog. The website of the NLA is super tacky and impossible to understand and seems to be just a general hockey website for all pyramids of Swiss hockey. The closest thing I have been able to do to follow that league is to watch a few games as a tourist. With the KHL I can watch HD recaps and see standings&stats one link away from the home page; something unheard of just a few years ago. Then there is just the pure increase in hockey competitiveness. Initially I believed that this kind of progress can be shared for the benefit of European hockey and by extension, the global game. I am somewhat surprised to hear that these countries have no interest for any kind of change and would rather maintain the status quo just for themselves, domestically. But to each their own, time will tell and in the meantime lets just enjoy our hockey and talk about relevant expansions such as Milan.

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05-01-2013, 07:23 PM
  #128
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I believe that there is a lot more chance that we'll see a Nordic ice hockey league in the future, rather then one Swedish/Finnish club joining KHL

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Old
05-01-2013, 07:30 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by metmag View Post
I have reevaluated my opinion and will say that it is too early to tell. My competence lies more in North American hockey and I don't want to go deeper into this discussion when it is clear that you Scandinavians seen to have a unanimous hard line 'no' on the matter(although I don't think that posters on this forum, myself included, are indicative of real world large scale hockey populations). Aside from the NHL, I enjoy watching and following the KHL because they have improved and internationalized their product to be more attractive to a wide range of audiences as opposed to just their domestic one. I think we can all agree that the KHL has been a positive force in world hockey. And as hockey fans we should be able to respect that. They have a clear goal and strategy to improve, and to that extent they have.
I cannot find or follow the Finnish league, and the most the Eliteserien will do for an international audience is run an English blog. The website of the NLA is super tacky and impossible to understand and seems to be just a general hockey website for all pyramids of Swiss hockey. The closest thing I have been able to do to follow that league is to watch a few games as a tourist. With the KHL I can watch HD recaps and see standings&stats one link away from the home page; something unheard of just a few years ago. Then there is just the pure increase in hockey competitiveness. Initially I believed that this kind of progress can be shared for the benefit of European hockey and by extension, the global game. I am somewhat surprised to hear that these countries have no interest for any kind of change and would rather maintain the status quo just for themselves, domestically. But to each their own, time will tell and in the meantime lets just enjoy our hockey and talk about relevant expansions such as Milan.
It's not about retaining the status quo but simply that situations are different in these countries and transplanting one plan into another doesn't go 1:1. The problems we have domestically are something that KHL can't/couldn't fix. Our club and junior systems are much bigger and different (even between Finland and Sweden), in addition to cultures than those in Czech Republic and Slovakia.

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Old
05-01-2013, 08:30 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by SCBdude View Post
Only people that are from KHL-Countries. The fans of teams from the big domestic leagues mostly agree that joining the KHL would be the wrong choice for those teams in those domestic leagues
all players, really. nobody wants to live in freakin' Russia all year. Even if you're from Russia.

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05-01-2013, 08:33 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
all players, really. nobody wants to live in freakin' Russia all year. Even if you're from Russia.

depends where in Russia....also, you sound kinda rude.

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Old
05-01-2013, 08:53 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
depends where in Russia....also, you sound kinda rude.
"Location: USA"

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05-02-2013, 02:16 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
I think you're mixing Canada and Soviet Union with the NHL/Soviet league here.
The Soviet league was on the same level with the NHL from the late 1970's to late 1980's. In fact the Soviet club teams won about 60% of the games they played agains the NHL competition. And not only CSKA and Dynamo, but also lesser clubs such as Khimik, Riga and Krylya.

The NHL always had more depth because Canada and the United States had always at least five times more hockey resources (players and rinks) than the Soviet Union. But the best 6-8 Soviet club teams were always as good as the best NHL teams were.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
The NHL will continue to be the best league until the living conditions/safety/society in Russia reaches North American/western levels. And Russians become better English speakers.
This is true for the next few years and perhaps for the next decade, but anything can happen in this world.

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05-02-2013, 02:19 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Sokil View Post
all players, really. nobody wants to live in freakin' Russia all year. Even if you're from Russia.
Several Finnish KHL players have said in the Finnish media that they like it in Russia. For example Petri Kontiola who plays for Traktor said in a Finnish sports magazine that "I like living in Russia" (a direct quote).

Russia is not the same country as it was ten years ago. It has "normalized" in many ways.

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05-02-2013, 03:11 AM
  #135
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all players, really. nobody wants to live in freakin' Russia all year. Even if you're from Russia.
Man, are you kidding me? It's year 2013, not 1968. Life in Russia is difficult but only for ordinary people, not if you're a hockey player who earns big money, ..

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05-02-2013, 03:15 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by DonCorleone View Post
Man, are you kidding me? It's year 2013, not 1968. Life in Russia is difficult but only for ordinary people, not if you're a hockey player who earns big money, ..
I would say it is not so difficult anymore as it was before. The purchasing power of an average Russian is now about the same as an average Portuguese. Portugal is still a poor country by European standards but it is not some dirt poor third world country.

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05-02-2013, 06:42 AM
  #137
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I think it's kinda funny how people say nobody wants to live in Russia... I would prefer living in a nice, modern Russian city than in Columbus, Ohio or St. Paul, Minnesota or Winnipeg, Manitoba. But maybe that's just me.

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05-02-2013, 06:59 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
"Location: USA"
I had no choice in this.

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Old
05-02-2013, 07:45 AM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I think it's kinda funny how people say nobody wants to live in Russia... I would prefer living in a nice, modern Russian city than in Columbus, Ohio or St. Paul, Minnesota or Winnipeg, Manitoba. But maybe that's just me.
Until you decide to take a drive in your car...

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05-02-2013, 09:03 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I think it's kinda funny how people say nobody wants to live in Russia... I would prefer living in a nice, modern Russian city than in Columbus, Ohio or St. Paul, Minnesota or Winnipeg, Manitoba. But maybe that's just me.
Many Russian cities blows american cities out of the water, everyone knows that, but there is still the language barrier and many cities are cold as hell. Understanding the langauge makes a bad place live-able, and not understanding it can make a good city depressing.

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05-02-2013, 12:02 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25
Several Finnish KHL players have said in the Finnish media that they like it in Russia. For example Petri Kontiola who plays for Traktor said in a Finnish sports magazine that "I like living in Russia" (a direct quote).

Russia is not the same country as it was ten years ago. It has "normalized" in many ways.
great post

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05-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
great post
It's pretty uncommon for players to say "yeah this country sucks, I hate it here, can't wait to leave".

All posts are great when they say something you agree with.

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05-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
It's pretty uncommon for players to say "yeah this country sucks, I hate it here, can't wait to leave".

All posts are great when they say something you agree with.
The player who was interviewed (Kontiola) has already played in Russia for four years and just signed a contract for another two years in Chelyabinsk. He is one of those Finnish players who have really made a career for himself in Russia. I doubt he would spend 6-10 years of his prime years in a country he doesn't like.

And he does not seem like a guy who would give these kind of interviews without meaning what he says.

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Old
05-02-2013, 01:45 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
It's pretty uncommon for players to say "yeah this country sucks, I hate it here, can't wait to leave".

All posts are great when they say something you agree with.
Kontiola is actually one of the few Finns who have said positive things. On the other hand they play in good cities and organizations.

Seems a lot of the Russian poster keep saying "great post" when they agree with the poster. Maybe it's a cultural thing like this )))))))

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05-02-2013, 02:03 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Kontiola is actually one of the few Finns who have said positive things.
There are only a few Finns who have publicly said negative things about living and playing in Russia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
On the other hand they play in good cities and organizations.
Chelyabinsk is not one of the best cities to live in the KHL. It is not the worst but there are better cities in Russia. Kazan and Novosibirsk for example are a lot nicer than Chelyabinsk.

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05-02-2013, 02:39 PM
  #146
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In Sweden there's a rule that sports club must be owned at least 51% of the members, corporate interests can only own a maximum of 49%. There's no way the KHL could get majority ownership of a club even if they wanted to.

Taxes in Sweden are high. Paying a salary of ie €100k/year costs the club around the double and the player will pay around half in tax, leaving him with €50k.

Imagine the funds a team must raise in order to compete with russian clubs that work under tax rules that are more relaxed.

If the above would change you get to the tricky bit with talking the fans into supporting a club that plays against teams no one has ever heard of....

And yes.... it does annoy me that average players go to bottom feeder teams in the KHL just because they make better money. After all, I watch the SEL (mainly SEL-2 nowadays though tbh) and not the KHL.

If Russia had a fraction of the soft power North America has, I would give the KHL a slight chance in Sweden, but realistically, people here don't find much appeal in Russia and the KHL, making it a dead end project from the start.

End of rant.

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Old
05-02-2013, 03:18 PM
  #147
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In Sweden there's a rule that sports club must be owned at least 51% of the members, corporate interests can only own a maximum of 49%. There's no way the KHL could get majority ownership of a club even if they wanted to.
Did I get it? A person or people owns 51%, so these people can be russians, no?

Quote:
And yes.... it does annoy me that average players go to bottom feeder teams in the KHL just because they make better money. After all, I watch the SEL (mainly SEL-2 nowadays though tbh) and not the KHL.
it does annoy me that best euro prospects go to NHL, CHL for free or little money and SWEDEN, as euro leader, supports it. That is a reason why Sweden does not want to join KHL. Other reasons are only a suportting arguments, nothing more.

Btw, euro players go to NHL bacause of MONEY, no other reason.

Quote:
If Russia had a fraction of the soft power North America has, I would give the KHL a slight chance in Sweden, but realistically, people here don't find much appeal in Russia and the KHL, making it a dead end project from the start.
KHL does not want swedish clubs, KHL wants swedish players or players from Elitserien. Btw, word is changing.
End of rant.[/QUOTE]

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05-02-2013, 04:08 PM
  #148
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Did I get it? A person or people owns 51%, so these people can be russians, no?
Club members, the fans, not companies. The club board is made up of delegates selected by the shareholders, which means that those elected by the fans (the 51%) will be in majority making corporate dominance impossible.

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05-02-2013, 05:08 PM
  #149
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Club members, the fans, not companies. The club board is made up of delegates selected by the shareholders, which means that those elected by the fans (the 51%) will be in majority making corporate dominance impossible.
I dont say about companies but people. You said they are club members, the fans. I am ok with it.. no problem, these people can be loyal to KHL. You can find such people in Sweden, dont have to be Russians.

And, you dont have to have majority to control club

And as I said, KHL is not interested in swedish club.

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05-02-2013, 06:00 PM
  #150
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And as I said, KHL is not interested in swedish club.
Yes they are, that would be their wet dream. You're making this out to be
"hey you can come"
-"no I don't want to"
"okay I didn't want you to anyways".

If a SEL club wanted to join KHL, the KHL would take the club with open arms. Or maybe you're right, and the KHL would rather have a club in Milan where the people couldn't care less about hockey, instead of a Swedish town with hockey interest, but hey, who am I to tell KHL how to run a bussiness.

Quote:
Btw, euro players go to NHL bacause of MONEY, no other reason.
Considering many of the Euro players could make much more money in Russia, and in some cases even Sweden (I guess Finland too?), it's hardly the only reason. Players are willing to take a small paycut to play with the best clubs against the best players.

Quote:
I dont say about companies but people. You said they are club members, the fans. I am ok with it.. no problem, these people can be loyal to KHL. You can find such people in Sweden, dont have to be Russians.
Unless you plan to bring over a couple of thousand KHL interested Russians, you won't find anyone who cares about KHL here, sorry, KHL is not a league all hockey interested countries cares about.
Didn't KHL recently have their finals played? Guess how much coverage that got in media.

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