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Old
05-18-2013, 02:17 PM
  #526
Calculon
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Originally Posted by Business of Sport View Post
It might have to do with the general assumption by many Rutherford/'Canes brass are satisfied enough with their skill up front/forward depth right now that they'll pass in favor of taking a D-man with that 1st. Many mocks I've seen have Carolina nabbing Nurse or Ristolainen.
Rutherford's already on record saying he's taking a forward.

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05-18-2013, 02:26 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Rutherford's already on record saying he's taking a forward.
I don't remember the quote exactly, but I believe his words were about how the top 5 forwards were all very good and how he'd be happy with any of them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he was as explicit as that. It could still be misdirection.

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05-18-2013, 02:38 PM
  #528
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I'm hoping we get Lindholm, then with the 2nd pick up Zykov or Rychel (physical goalscoring winger), and pick one of McCoshen/Morin with the Pitts pick. If we can pick them up a little later I'm all for trading the Pitts pick for 2 seconds and also getting William Carrier.
That Pitts pick is a little dicey because it will forever be connected with Iggy/Nieuwendyk/Nilson. While Agostino/Hanowski may have fine careers, I pray that the Pitts pick results in more.

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05-18-2013, 02:51 PM
  #529
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Lindholm+Morrissey/Zykov+Klimchuk/Morin

would be a hell of a first round

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05-18-2013, 02:58 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Rutherford's already on record saying he's taking a forward.
I have heard this as well, though I personally haven't read the quote myself (would love to check it out if anyone has a link). Regardless of whether or not Rutherford was paraphrased as to have said something like this in the media, or actually did, I don't see any real value in showing your hand so far ahead of the draft (especially with so much talent available), when it'd be easier and smarter just to say they're taking the BPA (who could be any one of a number of players, depending on what team's scouts you ask..)

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05-18-2013, 03:09 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
I'm hoping we get Lindholm, then with the 2nd pick up Zykov or Rychel (physical goalscoring winger), and pick one of McCoshen/Morin with the Pitts pick. If we can pick them up a little later I'm all for trading the Pitts pick for 2 seconds and also getting William Carrier.
That Pitts pick is a little dicey because it will forever be connected with Iggy/Nieuwendyk/Nilson. While Agostino/Hanowski may have fine careers, I pray that the Pitts pick results in more.
I'm hoping we are lucky enough for Rychel to fall to us at the PIT pick, and manage to nab either Shinkaruk or Pulock with the STL pick. Not very likely, but (along with either Monahan or Lindholm) would make one hell of a 1st round for the Flames.


Last edited by Business of Sport: 05-18-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old
05-18-2013, 04:09 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
I don't remember the quote exactly, but I believe his words were about how the top 5 forwards were all very good and how he'd be happy with any of them. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think he was as explicit as that. It could still be misdirection.
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Originally Posted by Business of Sport View Post
I have heard this as well, though I personally haven't read the quote myself (would love to check it out if anyone has a link). Regardless of whether or not Rutherford was paraphrased as to have said something like this in the media, or actually did, I don't see any real value in showing your hand so far ahead of the draft (especially with so much talent available), when it'd be easier and smarter just to say they're taking the BPA (who could be any one of a number of players, depending on what team's scouts you ask..)

From an interview with Rutherford (link here):

Quote:
The team has no intention of trading up at the draft. After the top defenseman who will probably go at number one, they have the top five offensive players in the draft rated very closely and will be happy with whomever is available to them. "Number five could end up as being as good or better than number two".
Seems pretty clear. They have Jones going first overall, and then five forwards (MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Nichushkin or Monahan) right after, one of whom they'll pick. There's no mention of another defensemen.

Could the Hurricanes still grab a defensemen instead? Of course; the draft is still more then a month away and there's still the combine and interviews to go through. But based on Rutherford's comments, barring any changes, they're picking a forward.

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05-18-2013, 04:31 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
From an interview with Rutherford (link here):



Seems pretty clear. They have Jones going first overall, and then five forwards (MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov, Lindholm, Nichushkin or Monahan) right after, one of whom they'll pick. There's no mention of another defensemen.

Could the Hurricanes still grab a defensemen instead? Of course; the draft is still more then a month away and there's still the combine and interviews to go through. But based on Rutherford's comments, barring any changes, they're picking a forward.
Thanks for posting. I didn't check out the audio yet, but interesting that the next quote listed was, "They would like to get bigger and tougher to play against, with the blueline being the priority." I don't see nothing mentioned (unless there is something else in the interview that wasnt quoted) about a forward specifically, just offensive. Nurse was 12g, 41pts, +15 while still posting 116 PIM in 68 games.. could that not be considered a top offensive prospect, even as a defenseman? Next to Jones, is there a dman prospect who put up better numbers than Nurse this year?

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05-18-2013, 05:26 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Business of Sport View Post
Thanks for posting. I didn't check out the audio yet, but interesting that the next quote listed was, "They would like to get bigger and tougher to play against, with the blueline being the priority." I don't see nothing mentioned (unless there is something else in the interview that wasnt quoted) about a forward specifically, just offensive. Nurse was 12g, 41pts, +15 while still posting 116 PIM in 68 games.. could that not be considered a top offensive prospect, even as a defenseman? Next to Jones, is there a dman prospect who put up better numbers than Nurse this year?
Rutherford created a distinction between 'top defensemen' and 'offensive players'. If he was considering a defensemen, he probably wouldn't have said offensive. There's some ambiguity but I think it's a clear reference to an offensive forward player, especially since almost no one has a defensemen other than Jones in the top 6 or 7 players when going by BPA methodology.

And Rutherford's quote about defense help as a 'priority' seems like he wants immediate help. Nurse, while a terrific prospect, is highly unlikely to be able to provide the kind of impact the Canes need in the short term since they're trying to compete now. It would be smarter for them to take the best player available at their spot, who ever it is, and then trade a forward for immediate defensive help.

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05-18-2013, 10:16 PM
  #535
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Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).

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05-18-2013, 10:21 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).
Classic Flames.

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Old
05-18-2013, 11:24 PM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).
I was having a nice day until you brought that up.

It seems like that Nashville/Phoenix (maybe even Ottawa) model is based off a large number of roster players being developed in the system. I'm excited for us to become that kind of a team, but it takes a lot of consecutive drafts to build that kind of system. As an aside, we were kind of that style of team back in '04, weren't we?

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Old
05-19-2013, 01:35 AM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).
If we can hit a homerun with at least 1 maybe 2 of our first round picks we may be already. We got skilled young players with promise, if they work out, like Baertschi, Gaudreau, Wotherspoon, cundari, and not a young player but Ramo if he lives up to expectation. Or Berra possibly.
If we can get a number 1 center at 6 and a top 4 d-man after that we have a good enough support cast that would could ice a decent team. We do lack top end game changers though. Baertschi may or may not be, and we may possibly have a top 5 pick next year.
It all comes down to drafting well and developing good NHL players.

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05-19-2013, 01:53 AM
  #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).
Lot's of us got scolded for wanting to lose those games. Talis vita est, and such is the Flames.

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05-19-2013, 02:25 AM
  #540
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Lot's of us got scolded for wanting to lose those games. Talis vita est, and such is the Flames.
That was really only a poster or two. I think most wanted us to lose once it became apparent that the playoffs weren't happening.

A 48 game season is a great season if you're going to "tank" because you don't have to endure the extra 34 games. Next year is going to be a long year when we'll be at the back of the pack pretty early on.

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05-19-2013, 03:06 AM
  #541
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Anyone that cheers for losses is what is wrong with sports and society. They always want things the easy way, but guess what you don't learn **** that way.

Winning is a learned behaviour, that's part of the reason the Oilers are still sheer garbage and staring down the barrel of their 6th top 10 picks in the last 7 years. The players have accepted losing and they have been taught that its okay to lose.

Losing should never be accepted, it should be discouraged at all costs. This rebuild will only be successful if players are brought in that have a drive to win at all costs and players okay with losing are shown the door.

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05-19-2013, 11:43 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by Noori View Post
That was really only a poster or two. I think most wanted us to lose once it became apparent that the playoffs weren't happening.

A 48 game season is a great season if you're going to "tank" because you don't have to endure the extra 34 games. Next year is going to be a long year when we'll be at the back of the pack pretty early on.
I would never cheer for the team to lose, "tanking" is pathetic and any GM/coach that would do it should be fired on the spot. I am glad we didn't simply fold like other teams did.

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05-19-2013, 12:17 PM
  #543
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Anyone that cheers for losses is what is wrong with sports and society. They always want things the easy way, but guess what you don't learn **** that way.

Winning is a learned behaviour, that's part of the reason the Oilers are still sheer garbage and staring down the barrel of their 6th top 10 picks in the last 7 years. The players have accepted losing and they have been taught that its okay to lose.

Losing should never be accepted, it should be discouraged at all costs. This rebuild will only be successful if players are brought in that have a drive to win at all costs and players okay with losing are shown the door.
Again, though, you're skating over the distinction between wanting your team to lose and wanting your team to try to lose. By the logic indicated in this post, any team that has a losing season needs to get rid of all of their players (now tainted with losing) and bring in new ones, who must then win right away lest they, too, become infected.

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05-19-2013, 01:42 PM
  #544
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Some of the intriguing storylines out of this mock:
- Flames a potential franchise centreman, a dynamic puck-moving d-man and a speedy sniping winger
- Leafs think they've landed a potential franchise player - many will beg to differ
- Habs hope they've landed a Ryan McDonagh clone
- Oilers with a mammoth blueliner with intriguing upside
- Avs: franchise blueliner or gamebreaking forward?
- Lightning: land a guy who could help Stamkos eclipse 70 goals
- Stars: land an Albertan kid who cheered for them growing up and idolized Mike Modano
- Devils with a "steal" at 9th
- Coyotes benefit from Russian factor
- Flyers think they've put Pronger and Timonen in a human blender with their selection...

Test yourself - how many of these prospects can you guess before clicking to confirm?

Did Feaster, Button, Weisbrod at all nail it this time around?

Link: 2013 NHL Mock Draft: The Next Ones Memorial Cup Edition

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05-19-2013, 02:09 PM
  #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noori View Post
Anyone watching the Memorial Cup? MacKinnon looks incredible. Frustrating to think that had we lost two very losable games to Anaheim and Detroit, we'd be drafting (most probably) 2nd overall and drafting Nate.

There just isn't enough top end talent in the system, even when we pick Monohan/Lindholm. The only way to succeed is a Nashville/Phoenix where we outwork and outcoach the opposition. Even that I don't see happening for a while (if it happens at all).
This exactly. I was extremely disappointed that we won against Anaheim, Detroit, and even Minnesota when we really needed to lose those games. That seems pretty typical though. Lose when we need to win and win when we'd be better off losing. I love this franchise but it shot itself squarely in the foot at the end of this season.

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05-19-2013, 06:15 PM
  #546
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Some of the intriguing storylines out of this mock:
...

Link: 2013 NHL Mock Draft: The Next Ones Memorial Cup Edition
I stopped reading when I saw that Colorado didn't pick Seth Jones.

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05-19-2013, 06:33 PM
  #547
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I'm sorry but what's your reasoning for Colorado NOT chosing Jones?

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05-19-2013, 07:08 PM
  #548
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I'm sorry but what's your reasoning for Colorado NOT chosing Jones?
its probably more a BPA list and mackinnon has turned it on lately. not a huge stretch.

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05-19-2013, 10:19 PM
  #549
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Again, though, you're skating over the distinction between wanting your team to lose and wanting your team to try to lose. By the logic indicated in this post, any team that has a losing season needs to get rid of all of their players (now tainted with losing) and bring in new ones, who must then win right away lest they, too, become infected.
I'm not skating over anything. I am just not stupid enough to believe there is a difference from a fans point of view. Cheering against your team is cheering against your team no matter how you slice it. You can pour piles of sugar on that piece of **** and its just a sugar coated piece of ****.

And I never said to get rid of every player that loses. I am saying get rid of any player that is okay with losing. There is a big difference.

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05-19-2013, 11:17 PM
  #550
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I'm not skating over anything. I am just not stupid enough to believe there is a difference from a fans point of view. Cheering against your team is cheering against your team no matter how you slice it. You can pour piles of sugar on that piece of **** and its just a sugar coated piece of ****.
First of all, there is absolutely no reason to communicate your ideas with that kind of tone unless you're trying to cover for weaknesses in your argument.

Your point is that the players not playing to win is negative in the long run, but my point is that I while I might want them to lose, I don't want them to not play to win. I want my team to try to win because I would be ashamed of my team doing anything else. However, when they are a bad enough team to require a better draft placement, of course I want them to be rewarded, especially if they 'earn' that right through trying as hard as they can, right to the end of the season.

I do not delude myself that my attitude has any effect on the team, however, and that my hoping for a loss will get in the heads of the players.

Quote:
And I never said to get rid of every player that loses. I am saying get rid of any player that is okay with losing. There is a big difference.
When you calm down, you'll realize that this is essentially the same type of distinction that I'm making. You're distinguishing between players don't win and players who don't try to win, whereas I'm distinguishing between fans cheering for losing and fans cheering for trying to lose.

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