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Trade Rumors and Proposals Part II

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06-18-2013, 08:38 PM
  #101
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Hello Kobasew, hello Nystrom geeze I am glad we learned from our mistakes
So what if these guys didn't play top 9 when a top 9 is already full. That's a good problem to have, regardless if they move on to greener pastures

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06-18-2013, 08:41 PM
  #102
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No, I disagree. A big failure regarding the Flames has been the ineffectiveness and lack of contribution from our 4th line. While no one expects a goal each shift, each night, or even each week, we expect contribution each season.

Scoring goals doesn't make a goal scorer?
Nobody expects goals from their 4th liners they are physical energy guys, who usually fill a defensive role (ie faceoff specialist or pker) and any and all goals are seen as bonuses. We need toughness in our lineup and that lineup is soft and we have the players to make it much tougher and it starts on the 4th line.

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06-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #103
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So what if these guys didn't play top 9 when a top 9 is already full. That's a good problem to have, regardless if they move on to greener pastures
No the AHL is for prospects that can't make the top 9. Not only because they are given vast amounts more of ice time in the ahl but on the 4th line you play a very different style of play and the skills necessary for being an effective 4th line aren't the same as the skills needed to be a top 6 player. Many were pissed at Sven playing on the 4th line for this very reason and he was sent to the AHL because Hartley knows it is better to play top minutes in the AHL then bottom 3 minutes in the NHL.

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06-18-2013, 08:44 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Nobody expects goals from their 4th liners they are physical energy guys, who usually fill a defensive role (ie faceoff specialist or pker) and any and all goals are seen as bonuses. We need toughness in our lineup and that lineup is soft and we have the players to make it much tougher and it starts on the 4th line.
Some clubs do expect it. McTavish said this of season he expects skill in his bottom six, and he was a grinder.

Vancouver and Philly are other teams that seem to prefer skill over goon

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06-18-2013, 08:47 PM
  #105
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Some clubs do expect it. McTavish said this of season he expects skill in his bottom six, and he was a grinder.

Vancouver and Philly are other teams that seem to prefer skill over goon
Vancouver? Sestito and Weise are offensive?

Philly? Rinaldo and Hall are offensive?

You want to model our team after Edmonton

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06-18-2013, 08:53 PM
  #106
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Vancouver? Sestito and Weise are offensive?

Philly? Rinaldo and Hall are offensive?

You want to model our team after Edmonton
They're not goons...

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06-18-2013, 08:53 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Hello Kobasew, hello Nystrom geeze I am glad we learned from our mistakes
It's also not ike it took Backlund years to find his confidence after being a fourth liner and whipping boy in Calgary...

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06-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #108
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They're not goons...
Thornton is goon like, Rinaldo is 100% a goon,Sesito is 100% a goon. Each team carries 1 goon to "keep the peace" they then have a physical player with limited skill aka Jackman (or sign Gordon and it becomes Bouma) and a decent player aka Bouma

I am saying a 4th line of

Bouma - Gordon - McGrattan/Aliu >>>> Lindholm - Reinhart - Horak

ANIEC

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06-18-2013, 08:57 PM
  #109
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It's also not ike it took Backlund years to find his confidence after being a fourth liner and whipping boy in Calgary...
I feel like Gio is going alittle overboard on the need to get more skilled.

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06-18-2013, 09:07 PM
  #110
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You've changed your 4th line examples every time

Lots of guys start off on the fourth line. What separates them from other 4th liners is that they don't stay there very long.


Like I said, I proposed Nystrom, Yip, etc before and people *****ed that the rookies weren't given an opportunity. Moreover, at least I proposed a REBUILD, all you've done is offer the same old garbage we've seen since Sutter. I'm surprised I haven't seen Kostopolous mentioned.

I don't have a problem with energy (ie, Bouma), and I have no problem with lindholm and Reinhart staying in Abby all year. But I'm not suggesting the same old bums that aren't getting it done.

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06-18-2013, 09:08 PM
  #111
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You've changed your 4th line examples every time
When? You brought all those teams up I haven't proposed a 4th line.

As for the same old guys what do you think Nystrom is? McGrattan was great in his role why should we bring in a new goon? The only one that should be worried is Jackman

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06-18-2013, 09:24 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I feel like Gio is going alittle overboard on the need to get more skilled.
Getting more skill is important, but not in the bottom three guys. Those guys play a role. Warriors. Guys who give it everything they got, make life hard on people and stand up for teammates.

The bottom six is incredibly important.

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06-18-2013, 09:27 PM
  #113
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When? You brought all those teams up I haven't proposed a 4th line.

As for the same old guys what do you think Nystrom is? McGrattan was great in his role why should we bring in a new goon? The only one that should be worried is Jackman
We let McGrat go for a reason.

Id prefer guys like R. Jones, D. Steckel, C. Armstrong, B. Yip, B. Richardson, M. Lapierre

Newer blood and not complete goons, but guys who are good with small minutes but can be bumped up the depth chart and handle themselves without completely fumbling the puck. Obvious every club looks for these guys and that's why they jump from club to club. Usually its because they're just not bringing the same energy to their club as they once did and a change is needed.

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06-18-2013, 09:29 PM
  #114
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When? You brought all those teams up I haven't proposed a 4th line.

As for the same old guys what do you think Nystrom is? McGrattan was great in his role why should we bring in a new goon? The only one that should be worried is Jackman
First it was Bouma Grat Aliu, then Jackman, then Gordon (?)

Maybe Begin was in there?

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06-18-2013, 09:34 PM
  #115
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First it was Bouma Grat Aliu, then Jackman, then Gordon (?)

Maybe Begin was in there?
No I never proposed them as a line as was merely saying that those players are much more similar to 4th lines then the one you want. Go back and look I merely listed off different players we could use.

Ideally we would use

Bouma - Gordon - McGrattan/Jackman

it gives us a great amount of energy and physicality with a faceoff specialist and 2 great pkers. There might not be a lot of skill but they fill more important roles and we have 9 other forwards for skill.

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06-18-2013, 09:37 PM
  #116
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Getting more skill is important, but not in the bottom three guys. Those guys play a role. Warriors. Guys who give it everything they got, make life hard on people and stand up for teammates.

The bottom six is incredibly important.
Lots of guys start off getting 6 mins. But it doesn't last long if they show skill.

Seguin started on the 4th?

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06-18-2013, 09:41 PM
  #117
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Lots of guys start off getting 6 mins. But it doesn't last long if they show skill.

Seguin started on the 4th?
Yes he did 1 rookie and he did terribly, now 3 rookies together that screams terrible idea.

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06-18-2013, 09:58 PM
  #118
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Yes he did 1 rookie and he did terribly, now 3 rookies together that screams terrible idea.
It was good development to put him through the ranks. No pressure to bury it, and it teaches the physical requirements and sacrifice. I look back at the Hall/Seguin decision and wonder if development factored in Seguin being the well rounded player

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06-18-2013, 10:01 PM
  #119
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It was good development to put him through the ranks. No pressure to bury it, and it teaches the physical requirements and sacrifice. I look back at the Hall/Seguin decision and wonder if development factored in Seguin being the well rounded player
No Seguin was always more 2 way, Hall was always a more offensive threat. We are going to have to disagree about the 4th line but if we have an all rookie line it will be pretty sad.


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06-18-2013, 10:23 PM
  #120
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No Seguin was always more 2 way, Hall was always a more offensive threat. We are going to have to disagree about the 4th line but if we have an all rookie like it will be pretty sad.
I agree about having an all rookie line. I prefer no more than 1 rookie/sophomore per line or defensive pairing.

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06-18-2013, 10:40 PM
  #121
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I'd love to have Nystrom back. **** me, is anyone else shocked to hear Nystrom is 30, I cannot believe how quickly I am getting old.

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06-18-2013, 10:57 PM
  #122
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No, I disagree. A big failure regarding the Flames has been the ineffectiveness and lack of contribution from our 4th line. While no one expects a goal each shift, each night, or even each week, we expect contribution each season.

Scoring goals doesn't make a goal scorer?
Jackman 1G, McGrattan 3G, Begin 4G.... ergo they are all goal scorers? Come on, we're arbitrarily splitting hairs here. I'm sure you can remember the good old days of our fourth line of Jackman, Prust and ____(can't remember who the third guy was... Stajan?) being the best in the league a few years ago. It wasn't because they scored a ton, it was because every time they stepped on the ice, they bullied the other team, spent the shift in the other end, got the crowd into it, got the bench into it, and turned the momentum their way. They got goals sometimes, sure, but merely as a biproduct of spending all of their time in the other end. It wasn't because they were goal scorers.

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06-18-2013, 11:25 PM
  #123
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No Seguin was always more 2 way, Hall was always a more offensive threat. We are going to have to disagree about the 4th line but if we have an all rookie line it will be pretty sad.
My line up was really a depth chart, not an actual line up. But since people jump on I had to fight with fire.

I wouldn't put a line full of rookies against grinders! That's asking for trouble.

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06-18-2013, 11:29 PM
  #124
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My line up was really a depth chart, not an actual line up. But since people jump on I had to fight with fire.
Or you could have just clarified what you meant.

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06-18-2013, 11:29 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by wflames View Post
Jackman 1G, McGrattan 3G, Begin 4G.... ergo they are all goal scorers? Come on, we're arbitrarily splitting hairs here. I'm sure you can remember the good old days of our fourth line of Jackman, Prust and ____(can't remember who the third guy was... Stajan?) being the best in the league a few years ago. It wasn't because they scored a ton, it was because every time they stepped on the ice, they bullied the other team, spent the shift in the other end, got the crowd into it, got the bench into it, and turned the momentum their way. They got goals sometimes, sure, but merely as a biproduct of spending all of their time in the other end. It wasn't because they were goal scorers.
I got to give props for Stajan for carrying Jackman and Kostopolous and grinding it out. He actually has skill and can be effective when feeding wingers.

Anyways, yeah those guys pissed me off too. The last guy I remember liking was Nystrom. Oh and Jackman had one good year

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