HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Columbus Blue Jackets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

2013-2014 Columbus Blue Jackets

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-06-2013, 09:36 AM
  #301
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Buffalo doesn't have to move Vanek either but we spent 2 pages talking about him. Welcome to the offseason where we discuss these sorts of things.
Vanek has expressed interest in possibly moving on. The Ducks are winning their series and had the second best record in the West. Buffalo didn't even make the playoffs.

The further the Ducks go, the less and less likely it will be that Ryan moves.

Totally different situations.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 09:52 AM
  #302
LetsGOJackets!!
Registered User
 
LetsGOJackets!!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 2,932
vCash: 500
I don't know how you could call the Gaborik deal

Quote:
Originally Posted by FANonymous View Post
I hear you, but the only part of that deal that makes me sad is Moore. Brass was never able to put it together here for any extended period of time, Dorsett was a fan favorite but he had a tendency to take terrible penalties at terrible times, his heart and grit were replaceable and his offense was emerging but still fairly unremarkable. Moore was bypassed on the depth chart by several defensemen already and we still haven't seen our #2 overall pick in the defense yet either. Moore has great potential, but we have others with great potential.

We didn't have anyone of Gaborik's caliber as a top line player. Even injured Gaborik.
a mistake. The guy was hurt and played at a point a game. Gabby is a sniper, we need a true power forward. The real value is getting Gabby and Bobby Ryan on our top power play, a banger and quick wrist shot go very well together in front of the net now that we have guys on point that can actually shoot.

Love me some Ryan.

LetsGOJackets!! is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 10:05 AM
  #303
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Semirural Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 21,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Vanek has expressed interest in possibly moving on. The Ducks are winning their series and had the second best record in the West. Buffalo didn't even make the playoffs.

The further the Ducks go, the less and less likely it will be that Ryan moves.

Totally different situations.
The Ryan thing has been gone round and round for a couple seasons now. It's possible playoff success could alter things there - heck, he's still there despite all the scuttlebutt.

Personally, I don't see why the Ducks would move Ryan, but I don't know what their FO thinks. I probably hang onto Vanek if I'm the Sabres, too, though, so whatevs.

__________________
"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
"I'll have a chance to compete for the post of first issue. This is the most important thing." -- Sergei Bobrovsky, June 2012
Double-Shift Lassé is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 10:13 AM
  #304
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Only going to say this one more time, because I don't want to annoy everyone and myself.

I think we are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Yes, we are looking to add scoring. Yes we have a GM that is willing to make moves. However, we also gave up a lot of our assets we were willing to trade in the Gaborik trade. Our forward prospect pool isn't going to excite another team, which mean if they want a forward we are going to end up moving a roster forward and it's not likely going to be someone we want to move.

Take the Ducks, they are going to want a young inexpensive NHL forward with top line potential. You'll probably also have to give up Jenner and a 1st as well.

Calm down, take a breath, and relax. Adjust your targets and become far more realistic. Yes, I suppose you can dream big. But it's a dream. Could the trade occur? Yes. Do I want it to? Not with him hanging there with only one more year on his deal and ready to become a UFA. I could easily see Ryan testing FA. Salaries are going to adjust and he probably won't be getting offers that he thinks he is due.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 10:23 AM
  #305
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
The Ryan thing has been gone round and round for a couple seasons now. It's possible playoff success could alter things there - heck, he's still there despite all the scuttlebutt.
I think if you read through my last two posts you will see my pattern. The Ducks will move Ryan if someone wants to dramatically overpay and doesn't hurt their roster. Otherwise I think he walks at UFA. In order for this to make sense for them, they have to move Ryan for a cheap young roster player with 30 goal potential. So with the Jackets, they would probably be looking at Johansen or maybe Atkinson. They will also want a top prospect and a first.

They are out to win a Cup. They aren't going to move him for draft picks. If they move Ryan they probably aren't looking at a roster d-man.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 10:50 AM
  #306
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Semirural Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 21,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Only going to say this one more time, because I don't want to annoy everyone and myself.

I think we are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Yes, we are looking to add scoring. Yes we have a GM that is willing to make moves. However, we also gave up a lot of our assets we were willing to trade in the Gaborik trade. Our forward prospect pool isn't going to excite another team, which mean if they want a forward we are going to end up moving a roster forward and it's not likely going to be someone we want to move.

Take the Ducks, they are going to want a young inexpensive NHL forward with top line potential. You'll probably also have to give up Jenner and a 1st as well.

Calm down, take a breath, and relax. Adjust your targets and become far more realistic. Yes, I suppose you can dream big. But it's a dream. Could the trade occur? Yes. Do I want it to? Not with him hanging there with only one more year on his deal and ready to become a UFA. I could easily see Ryan testing FA. Salaries are going to adjust and he probably won't be getting offers that he thinks he is due.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I think if you read through my last two posts you will see my pattern. The Ducks will move Ryan if someone wants to dramatically overpay and doesn't hurt their roster. Otherwise I think he walks at UFA. In order for this to make sense for them, they have to move Ryan for a cheap young roster player with 30 goal potential. So with the Jackets, they would probably be looking at Johansen or maybe Atkinson. They will also want a top prospect and a first.

They are out to win a Cup. They aren't going to move him for draft picks. If they move Ryan they probably aren't looking at a roster d-man.
I'm all on board with what you're saying via-a-vis Ryan and Vanek and whomever else you're lumping in with "dream big." But good luck with your crusade during this long offseason. IMO Ryan discussion is no more or less pertinent/valuable/legitimate than Vanek or any other name that's been floated.

I'll even extrapolate beyond the current round-and-round - and make the discussion even more frustrating. I think there are probably 10-12 (totally made up number) players that the FO might be able to identify that we have no clue might be 'get'-able by trade. In other words, I think a player might be acquired via trade this offseason that if a player not generally considered "available," but only because we're (posters) not in the business of calling around to NHL general managers and asking.

Double-Shift Lassé is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 10:56 AM
  #307
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
I'm all on board with what you're saying via-a-vis Ryan and Vanek and whomever else you're lumping in with "dream big." But good luck with your crusade during this long offseason. IMO Ryan discussion is no more or less pertinent/valuable/legitimate than Vanek or any other name that's been floated.
All I'm saying is that Buffalo is more likely to move Vanek. They could very well be a more flexible trading partner.

Vanek is an outside shot, Ryan is a fantasy. Fantasies do happen, but I'm not sure the cost would be worth it. We would have to have his next contract done before I could feel comfortable with that move. Moving to the East could make it more feasible.

If Gaborik doesn't get done, it would hurt but I wouldn't really miss the assets moved all that much. We had the depth to absorb it.

To be honest, I feel more comfortable that Vanek would come in and sign an extension than Ryan, unless we just went max/max on Ryan.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 11:11 AM
  #308
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Semirural Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 21,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
All I'm saying is that Buffalo is more likely to move Vanek. They could very well be a more flexible trading partner.

Vanek is an outside shot, Ryan is a fantasy. Fantasies do happen, but I'm not sure the cost would be worth it. We would have to have his next contract done before I could feel comfortable with that move. Moving to the East could make it more feasible.

If Gaborik doesn't get done, it would hurt but I wouldn't really miss the assets moved all that much. We had the depth to absorb it.

To be honest, I feel more comfortable that Vanek would come in and sign an extension than Ryan, unless we just went max/max on Ryan.
Cool.

Not to counter what you're saying but to add a thought -- I'd prefer to sign Horton as a UFA (depending on cost, of course, and taking into consideration his history with concussions) than sending assets away for Vanek. Not that I don't think Vanek is a superior player. How much either of those (Horton signing v. Vanek trade) is possible I don't know.

Double-Shift Lassé is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #309
Roadman
Moving On
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London OH
Country: United States
Posts: 2,592
vCash: 500
I would be much more comfortable signing a middling forward FA than sending assets off making another trade for scoring. I think the Gaborik trade was our big shot to bolster the offense. We pretty well shipped out what expendable assets we were going to move in that deal. Perhaps a prospect D for a prospect O but I wouldn't look for much more on the trade front.

Just a guess but anything is possible. We have nothing but guesses with the new front office.

Roadman is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #310
Mayor Bee
\/me_____you\/
 
Mayor Bee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Cool.

Not to counter what you're saying but to add a thought -- I'd prefer to sign Horton as a UFA (depending on cost, of course, and taking into consideration his history with concussions) than sending assets away for Vanek. Not that I don't think Vanek is a superior player. How much either of those (Horton signing v. Vanek trade) is possible I don't know.
Personally, I'd rather go for Jagr. He can still produce, there's likely to be no more than a two-year commitment, and he would have immediate credibility in the locker room.

Mayor Bee is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 12:12 PM
  #311
Robert
Foligno family
 
Robert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Country: United States
Posts: 31,429
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Robert
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
I would be much more comfortable signing a middling forward FA than sending assets off making another trade for scoring. I think the Gaborik trade was our big shot to bolster the offense. We pretty well shipped out what expendable assets we were going to move in that deal. Perhaps a prospect D for a prospect O but I wouldn't look for much more on the trade front.

Just a guess but anything is possible. We have nothing but guesses with the new front office.
Jarmo said this “There are a lot of guys here who can score more goals. It can come from within the group, but we’re going to look at all options to get better.”

Pretty general comment, he may do nothing to improve scoring but on the other hand if the right player is there at the right price I'm thinking he will go for some help..

Not one person here predicted he would make a so called "dreamer" trade on the level of Gaborik at the deadline... AND I'm not saying he will do it again but getting Gaborik does indicate one thing-the new front office is not afraid to make a significant move..

Robert is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 12:14 PM
  #312
Double-Shift Lassé
Moderator
Just post better
 
Double-Shift Lassé's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Semirural Cbus
Country: United States
Posts: 21,254
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Personally, I'd rather go for Jagr. He can still produce, there's likely to be no more than a two-year commitment, and he would have immediate credibility in the locker room.
If JD and Jarmo think Jagr's kind of "credibility" would be good for the team, I'm all for it. Guy's one of my favorite players ever, but I acknowledge he comes with some potential baggage.

Adding a player of Jagr's advanced age would seem to me to be a bit of a bridge move as well (that is, versus adding a younger player on a longer-term deal). Again, as long as JD/Jarmo have a plan for what's he's a bridge to...

Double-Shift Lassé is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 01:54 PM
  #313
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,062
vCash: 500
Not that it WILL happen but I would expect a boost from Atkinson, Johansen, Umberger, Dubinsky, Gaborik, Anisimov and Foligno. If they can add one more forward to the mix I'm sure they will but I truly feel they stay the course and build the pipeline up front. Use the draft picks to either move up in the draft or take the highest value players in theis slots (regardless of position). Move prospects for prospets if necessary or prospects for young NHLers but I'm not counting on another big splash and the addition of more salary. Columbus isn't likely to be a "cap" team (and until they start consistent winning I don't think they should be or can afford to be).

Xoggz22 is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 02:27 PM
  #314
ernmorris
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 227
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
But good luck with your crusade during this long offseason. IMO Ryan discussion is no more or less pertinent/valuable/legitimate than Vanek or any other name that's been floated..
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

Personally, I don't see it being that far fetched or some "big dream" that Ryan would get traded this offseason. Their playoff run aside, we've seen this sort of things many times in the past. Allow me to use a pro football analogy. The Ravens just won the Super Bowl and decided to give their QB a huge contract. This forced them to have to trade one of the better receivers. It's no different in hockey and the Ducks playoff run has no bearing on whether they keep or trade Ryan. They just paid 2 of their players huge contracts AND the salary cap is going down next year. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but that tells me something has to give. That something could very well be Ryan.

They may decide to keep him and I wouldn't be shocked by that either. But to think it is a dream that he gets moved is bit narrow minded, IMO.

Further, I don't think it will take some exorbitant package to make it happen either. If I'm reaching at all this may be the area, but here me out. Assuming the Ducks can't make the math work and they have to move him then I think that helps the buyers in this situation. Obviously Ryan is young and signed to a longer term contract so it may take a huge package to get it done. Time will tell if it happens and what it will take.

I just threw Ryan out as a discussion point because he is a name that appeals to me. If I had my druthers, though, I would prefer to sign a FA as opposed to giving up assets in a trade for a player and the name that I keep coming back to is the Devils Clarkson. Like Ryan, I think he would be a perfect here.

Should be an interesting/fun offseason! I'll be here the whole time throwing out my 2 cents so may as well get used to it.

ernmorris is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 02:52 PM
  #315
Iron Balls McGinty
Registered User
 
Iron Balls McGinty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sec. 203/Worthington
Country: United States
Posts: 2,095
vCash: 500
The question is what type of scoring talent will the Canucks be looking to get rid of that could potentially come here.

They are over the salary cap for next season with only 17 players signed.
They have 12.2 million wrapped up in the Sedin twins.
They are currently spending over 9 million for goaltending.
They have 5 D all making more than 4.2 million per year.

They will have to do more than trade Luongo in the off-season to get below the cap. I'm not sure if they have anyone on their roster I'd want that doesn't have a NTC. Alexandre Burrows has a 4.5 cap hit and no NTC but not sure he'd fit our needs. Kesler would be an obvious choice but who would know if he would wave to come here considering his history with Umberger.

Iron Balls McGinty is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 02:59 PM
  #316
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ernmorris View Post
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

Personally, I don't see it being that far fetched or some "big dream" that Ryan would get traded this offseason.
Just because you agree with him doesn't make it a "winner".

I listed the reasoning, which you really haven't countered. It was fairly in depth. Why don't you try debating it, instead of just jumping on DSL's coat tails.

You haven't debated the Ducks finances, what it would take for them to trade him to us, the risks to such a move with a player with one year left on his deal, and under what conditions the Ducks would entertain him trading him. I even listed a team that almost mirrors them financially, but you persist that they can't make the math work. Please, this one is easy for them. I can see almost 5 million in cap space that will be sent down after the playoffs, unless you somehow think Palmieri is going to break them.

I even then gave you a few reasons in which Buffalo might be a more willing and able partner. Then to top it off I even added why our situation is different than it was when we went after Gaborik.

Why do you persist? Mostly like because it is a fantasy and people loooove fantasies. Sure sometimes fantasies happen, but the likelihood of this one coming true without great pain to this franchise are almost zero. You don't think it will take a big package, but this guy had 4 straight 30+ goal seasons at only 26. He is a poster child for a big package deal. There would have to be something working in the background to get the Ducks to move him for something reasonable. A lot more than what I've heard in rumblings over the last couple of years. The Ducks would have to be really motivated. They may realize that Ryan isn't willing to come back, but they are still going to require a kings ransom. They aren't going to give him away and they aren't going to advertise he wants out.

Just remember, the further you get the playoffs the less and less likely a player is to get moved. You trade a Ryan when you want to shake up the room.

Sure the Ducks could lose some depth, but that is what the farm system is for.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #317
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
What is far more interesting is what the Lightning do this off season. There are a few other teams worse off than the Ducks. Vancouver is going to have to do something as are the Flyers, but Briere is probably just an amnesty buy out.


Last edited by blahblah: 05-06-2013 at 03:34 PM.
blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 04:34 PM
  #318
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 29,567
vCash: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What is far more interesting is what the Lightning do this off season.
Ohlund likely on LTIR.

Brewer and Malone moved if possible but may need to buy out one of them.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 04:40 PM
  #319
blahblah
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 19,269
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Ohlund likely on LTIR.

Brewer and Malone moved if possible but may need to buy out one of them.
I don't see them moving Brewer.

blahblah is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 05:14 PM
  #320
EspenK
Registered User
 
EspenK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 10,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoggz22 View Post
Not that it WILL happen but I would expect a boost from Atkinson, Johansen, Umberger, Dubinsky, Gaborik, Anisimov and Foligno. If they can add one more forward to the mix I'm sure they will but I truly feel they stay the course and build the pipeline up front. Use the draft picks to either move up in the draft or take the highest value players in theis slots (regardless of position). Move prospects for prospets if necessary or prospects for young NHLers but I'm not counting on another big splash and the addition of more salary. Columbus isn't likely to be a "cap" team (and until they start consistent winning I don't think they should be or can afford to be).
Other than Atkinson who was showing some uptrend toward the end of the season and Gabby who has been a big scorer previously, I'm not sure why you would expect a boost from the others. Dubi maybe because he missed so many games. But the others I'm not so sure. Hope for,yes,expect no.

And by my calculations we will probably be in the 59-60 mill range next year unless Jarmo low balls Bob & AA. That's not a cap team but its pretty darn close.

EspenK is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 06:58 PM
  #321
BoonesJenner
Registered User
 
BoonesJenner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,982
vCash: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert View Post
Jarmo said this “There are a lot of guys here who can score more goals. It can come from within the group, but we’re going to look at all options to get better.”

Pretty general comment, he may do nothing to improve scoring but on the other hand if the right player is there at the right price I'm thinking he will go for some help..

Not one person here predicted he would make a so called "dreamer" trade on the level of Gaborik at the deadline... AND I'm not saying he will do it again but getting Gaborik does indicate one thing-the new front office is not afraid to make a significant move..
I was completely shutoff to the possibility of the Gaborik trade happening. I literally said the night before the deal, "Can we please stop talking about the Gaborik trade, its not going to happen".

Which scares me, because I'm saying the same thing about Murray...
We have a chance to do what took some teams 5 years, in 1 entire season.

New President of Ops
New GM

New Starting goaltender
New Locker Room Atmosphere
Defensive Depth
Multiple defensive cornerstone pieces(Murray, JJ)
Elite offensive talent(Gaborik)
Young, hungry, defensive minded forwards emerged as NHL ready(Johansen, Calvert, Atkinson)
Veteran Presence(Prospal, Comeau, Auccoin, Umberger)
Playoff Experience(Umberger, Dubinksy, Anisimov, JJ, Bobrovksy, Comeau?)

And now we have a chance to turn into the new Detroit if you will, we have a chance to influx 3 first round players into our prospect pool. So what if it takes a year or two for them to develop, that just means organizational security. Knowing you have nhl talent players playing in the AHL is a very good problem to have. If we had the roster depth, Johansen would have played his final season in the WHL and probably and entire year of the AHL and he would/could have been so polished and shiny this season, but we rushed him. Same with majority of our prospects. We need to have a base requirement for most of our prospects. Our AHL coaching staff has done a phenomenal job down there and seem to have done wonders helping develop players. There might always be an exception where a player is just TOO good, but Cam and might be the exception with the lockout going on. But it doesnt happen much. Having the depth to say make a player like Barkov play in the AHL for an entire season to rehab(play it safe) his shoulder and let him adjust to the game. Unless of course he dominates. But RyJo is having some difficulties playing back in the AHL after dominating players like Sedin and Thorton so...you never know what it might do.

BoonesJenner is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 08:01 PM
  #322
leesmith
Still in.
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,143
vCash: 500
The move that's likely to be made this Summer will elicit a "Who?!?" and then a "Oh yeah, great move!"

leesmith is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 08:22 PM
  #323
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
 
Sore Loser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Spokane, WA.
Country: United States
Posts: 6,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
The move that's likely to be made this Summer will elicit a "Who?!?" and then a "Oh yeah, great move!"


I expect the same reaction from our first draft choice.

Sore Loser is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 08:28 PM
  #324
leesmith
Still in.
 
leesmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 19,143
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sore Loser View Post


I expect the same reaction from our first draft choice.
Agreed.

leesmith is offline  
Old
05-06-2013, 09:02 PM
  #325
Xoggz22
HFB Partner
 
Xoggz22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 5,062
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
Other than Atkinson who was showing some uptrend toward the end of the season and Gabby who has been a big scorer previously, I'm not sure why you would expect a boost from the others. Dubi maybe because he missed so many games. But the others I'm not so sure. Hope for,yes,expect no.

And by my calculations we will probably be in the 59-60 mill range next year unless Jarmo low balls Bob & AA. That's not a cap team but its pretty darn close.
Do you not think Johansen will score more than 8 goals next year? Dubi will increase his output from this year. Anisimov should score 20+ based on this year and Foligno took a step back. Umberger may be a hope but he is a 25 goal scorer historically. That's why I expect an increase.

I also think you will see salary moved, not added.

Xoggz22 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.