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Old
05-03-2013, 12:56 PM
  #201
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If you review the stuff that has been written on this board about Monahan, he seems to be exactly that type of high character guy with a strong skill set.

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05-03-2013, 01:36 PM
  #202
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while I don't think its realistic that we buy out RJ and are a cap team, I guess I'll point to season ticket renewals which were pacing well ahead of most of the previous years....maybe they're gonna hedge their bets on more season tix bought than in any other year? dunno...just playing devils advocate here...
Sure it's possible, but as you stated it's probably unrealistic. Even with "fixing" our revenue stream and increased STH renewals, we still don't have the revenue stream to be cap team without deep runs in the playoffs. At least I don't see how.

I appreciate their willingness to lose money, but I would hope that isn't the expectation from the fan base.

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05-03-2013, 01:51 PM
  #203
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Vanek. Boy you guys really know how to swing for the fences. I know DSL has been hitting on this some.

What I will add is that if you get him you have to buy out RJ (yes, I know none of you care). But are we going to be a cap team AND buy out RJ? Well that's a pretty unrealistic expectation for ownership. I'm not opposed to a buyout of RJ, but temper your expectations for the cap if you do that.

I would like to add scoring, but we already grabbed Gaborik. Our players our developing and I'd rather attempt to do this without these costs associated with obtaining Vanek. We already did that once, we're starting to look at cutting deep. What I'm saying is that if we acquire scoring help, perhaps we don't swing for the fences as much or see what we can do in FA. Our other option is to give up a real resource on defense (Tyutin for example, as Nikitin probably isn't going to do it). I'm not sure I am fond of that option.

I would be very careful with our next deal and what we attempt to acquire with that deal. We did the Gaborik deal with depth. Another deal like that and depth may no longer be a strength.
Vanek aside, buying out RJ will save 3 million cap dollars, not signing Prospal would save 2... (I'm NOT saying I want the CBJ to let him walk, just an example of an alternative). Not much difference, I doubt the organization will be buying out RJ any time soon as he is a serviceable player, the cost to the organization for the buyout is to high imo...

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05-03-2013, 02:09 PM
  #204
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if we buyout RJ it will be as an amnesty and won't count towards the cap...

edit...realized after you were talking straight cash...not cap...derp

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05-03-2013, 02:10 PM
  #205
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Vanek aside, buying out RJ will save 3 million cap dollars, not signing Prospal would save 2... (I'm NOT saying I want the CBJ to let him walk, just an example of an alternative). Not much difference, I doubt the organization will be buying out RJ any time soon as he is a serviceable player, the cost to the organization for the buyout is to high imo...
What we would be saying that we want to move assets on top of replacing RJ and Prospal on the roster? We would probably move another roster player as well. So let's say something like Tyutin, a 1st, and something else fairly important for Vanek? All that and in the end I'm not even sure we're a better team.

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05-03-2013, 02:19 PM
  #206
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if we buyout RJ it will be as an amnesty and won't count towards the cap...

edit...realized after you were talking straight cash...not cap...derp
No you're good. I forgot the rules, you made me look again. I remembered now what my issue was, it had been so long I forgot how I formed my objection. We still buy them out at 2/3's at the normal length (instead of over twice the term) with no cap hit. That is a lot of salary not counted towards the cap (3 million per). Then they want you to be a cap team? So essentially we would be looking at a potential of 67 million in salary at a 64 million cap (with some variance).

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05-03-2013, 02:31 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What we would be saying that we want to move assets on top of replacing RJ and Prospal on the roster? **
No, I was simply saying buying out RJ only saves 3 million cap dollars and there may be other ways to save close to that amount. But I see since it would be a compliance buyout in June there wouldn't even be that... As said, it's moot anyway because I doubt the CBJ will be willing to buyout RJ who is a serviceable player.


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05-03-2013, 02:44 PM
  #208
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As for free agency, any interest in Dustin Penner?

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05-03-2013, 02:50 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What we would be saying that we want to move assets on top of replacing RJ and Prospal on the roster? We would probably move another roster player as well. So let's say something like Tyutin, a 1st, and something else fairly important for Vanek? All that and in the end I'm not even sure we're a better team.
Yeah and rebuilding team probably wouldn't take Tyutin.

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05-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #210
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As for free agency, any interest in Dustin Penner?
Not from my perspective. I've been hesitant to say much, but I wouldn't mind seeing us make a play for Gagner.

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05-03-2013, 03:10 PM
  #211
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Yeah and rebuilding team probably wouldn't take Tyutin.
Probably want to wait and see what the Sabres are going to do before making that kind of declaration. You take out Miller and Vanek and there is a race to the cap floor. I think the only reason they are considering moving Vanek is because there is rumor of a rebuild (Vanek sounds a bit like Nash did) and he is in the last year of his contract, meaning they will get more now than at the trade deadline. At some point Buffalo would need to take on salary.

Now if your issue is with Tyutin or his age, I think the GM's have far less of a concern than you do. I don't think JK has any intention, at this time, of moving Tyutin.

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05-03-2013, 03:16 PM
  #212
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Not from my perspective. I've been hesitant to say much, but I wouldn't mind seeing us make a play for Gagner.
I should have said unrestricted FA but yeah, Gagner is a steady center and the perfect age, would fit with Gabby nicely... I was looking at left wing UFA's for the most part..


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05-03-2013, 03:29 PM
  #213
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Probably want to wait and see what the Sabres are going to do before making that kind of declaration. You take out Miller and Vanek and there is a race to the cap floor. I think the only reason they are considering moving Vanek is because there is rumor of a rebuild (Vanek sounds a bit like Nash did) and he is in the last year of his contract, meaning they will get more now than at the trade deadline. At some point Buffalo would need to take on salary.
If/as they move Vanek and Miller, they'd be likely heading for rebuild. FA pool isn't that great to cover up those losses. Well they can overpay a lot for some but that wouoldn't help long-term.

Vanek, Poms and Miller have carried that team, imo they wouldn't be competitive without them. Weren't with them the past few years.

Ofc basically no one goes in to the season wanting to tank.

I didn't/don't say they are going to rebuild but if they trade Vanek and Miller, that is pretty clearly the direction imo. If they won't, then they don't. What else would they possibly do if they trade Vanek as in your proposal? Not many options. They do have good pieces there.

Well that would basically be their rebuild. Not many other players they could/should trade. Ok Stafford.

Though I think Regier has hinted that they need some overhaul or something like that. Not sure.

Quote:
Now if your issue is with Tyutin or his age, I think the GM's have far less of a concern than you do. I don't think JK has any intention, at this time, of moving Tyutin.
Rebuilding teams generally don't take 30 yr old Dman who are signed for 5 more years as a core piece for their best player as they can/will get younger/potentially better players as a part of the deal. I think. That would be the situation with Vanek.

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Old
05-03-2013, 03:57 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
If/as they move Vanek and Miller, they'd be likely heading for rebuild. FA pool isn't that great to cover up those losses. Well they can overpay a lot for some but that wouoldn't help long-term.
What I think is that you missed the part of the cap floor. Also, I think you are missing the point where the players are talking because they have only a year on their contract.

You could very well be right in that he may not be their first choice, however, you could very well be wrong in that they would have no interest. I don't think the Sabres are interested in a rebuild as much as the players are assuming their aren't part of the future plans. Very much like the Jackets fans and assuming trading Nash signaled a rebuild.

Now would the Sabres prefer to get a young stud player in to replace Vanek? Sure. But who in the right mind is going to do that? They'll get a prospect or two and a pick or two. They aren't going to get a top tier roster forward. They might get a top tier roster defensemen. We aren't trading Jack Johnson. The other option might be a second or third tier forward. So, what? Foligno? They aren't likely getting Atkinson, Calvert, or even Letestu. Almost no chance at Johansen.

My guess is that nothing gets done with the Jackets and Buffalo in reguards to Vanek. If it does it probably involves Wiz or Tyutin, no matter how remote that seems on the surface. Simply put, the Sabres have to take back some salary.

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05-03-2013, 04:03 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
What I think is that you missed the part of the cap floor. Also, I think you are missing the point where the players are talking because they have only a year on their contract.

You could very well be right in that he may not be their first choice, however, you could very well be wrong in that they would have no interest. I don't think the Sabres are interested in a rebuild as much as the players are assuming their aren't part of the future plans. Very much like the Jackets fans and assuming trading Nash signaled a rebuild.

Now would the Sabres prefer to get a young stud player in to replace Vanek? Sure. But who in the right mind is going to do that? They'll get a prospect or two and a pick or two. They aren't going to get a top tier roster forward. They might get a top tier roster defensemen. We aren't trading Jack Johnson. The other option might be a second or third tier forward. So, what? Foligno? They aren't likely getting Atkinson, Calvert, or even Letestu. Almost no chance at Johansen.

My guess is that nothing gets done with the Jackets and Buffalo in reguards to Vanek. If it does it probably involves Wiz or Tyutin, no matter how remote that seems on the surface. Simply put, the Sabres have to take back some salary.
Agree (bolded).... RJ is up for sale..... (just kidding, not serious, I know it would never happen...etc. etc.)

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05-03-2013, 04:18 PM
  #216
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...(Vanek sounds a bit like Nash did)...
I read an article on, I think, PuckDaddy and thought he sounded exactly like Nash. I believe I can paraphrase his quote as, "if its going to be a long rebuild, it may be best for us to part ways."

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05-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #217
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What I think is that you missed the part of the cap floor.
Well they would be 9 mil under the floor with 14 players on the roster if they trade both Vanek and Miller. And imo it would be good for them to retain some salary to get more value

Quote:
Also, I think you are missing the point where the players are talking because they have only a year on their contract.
That they talk bc they can get that way leverage from their team? Nope, didn't miss it. I'm no expert on Sabres by any means

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You could very well be right in that he may not be their first choice, however, you could very well be wrong in that they would have no interest. I don't think the Sabres are interested in a rebuild as much as the players are assuming their aren't part of the future plans. Very much like the Jackets fans and assuming trading Nash signaled a rebuild.
Very well then.. it always depends how the team plays.

Quote:
Now would the Sabres prefer to get a young stud player in to replace Vanek? Sure. But who in the right mind is going to do that? They'll get a prospect or two and a pick or two. They aren't going to get a top tier roster forward. They might get a top tier roster defensemen.
Never underestimate desperate GMs .

I don't think they'll get top tier roster forward.. something like Pominville package. Or Erat trade, maybe.

Quote:
We aren't trading Jack Johnson. The other option might be a second or third tier forward. So, what? Foligno? They aren't likely getting Atkinson, Calvert, or even Letestu. Almost no chance at Johansen.

My guess is that nothing gets done with the Jackets and Buffalo in reguards to Vanek. If it does it probably involves Wiz or Tyutin, no matter how remote that seems on the surface. Simply put, the Sabres have to take back some salary.
Yup. I wouldn't pull the trigger on Vanek. He's good but not worth the price which is very high if he is available.

Sure they could be taking some salary back. I just don't think player like Tyutin is what they expect to get as the biggest piece for return. Or will be.

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05-03-2013, 04:47 PM
  #218
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There has been quite a bit of talk about lots of cap space to use. So I went to cap geek and built a roster.

Notes:
BOB 4.5
Anisimov 3.0
Vinny 2.5 (same)
Comeau 1.25 (same)
New Guy top line LW 4.00
Back-up Goalie 1.0

These may be high, may be low, just tried to get at least a ball park starting point to explore just what kind of capspace might actually be available. As you can see using these numbers we end up with ~2.25 as a cushion and a full 23 man roster.

Adjust my signing numbers as you wish but things do start to get a little binding if you start to talk about 5,6,7 M free agents/trades.

Anyway, it's a start.

Have fun

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
New Guy ($4.000m) / Ryan Johansen ($1.945m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Matt Calvert ($0.988m) / Artem Anisimov ($3.000m) / Cam Atkinson ($1.150m)
Vinny Prospal ($2.500m) / Brandon Dubinsky ($4.200m) / Mark Letestu ($1.250m)
R.J. Umberger ($4.600m) / Derek MacKenzie ($1.000m) / Nick Foligno ($3.083m)
Blake Comeau ($1.250m) / Jared Boll ($1.050m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Jack Johnson ($4.357m) / Fedor Tyutin ($4.500m)
Dalton Prout ($0.667m) / Ryan Murray ($3.494m)
Tim Erixon ($1.750m) / James Wisniewski ($5.500m)
Nikita Nikitin ($2.150m) /
GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($4.500m)
Back up ($1.000m)
OTHER
Buyout: Mike Commodore ($1.142m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $65,575,486; BONUSES: $4,525,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,249,514


Last edited by Roadman: 05-03-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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Old
05-03-2013, 04:58 PM
  #219
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Foligno on 4th line... that's depth.

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05-03-2013, 05:02 PM
  #220
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Foligno on 4th line... that's depth.
Wasn't as concerned about the lines as the numbers.

But yea Umberger - D Mac - Foligno is not bad.

Would think that such a line up would truly be A,B,C,D roll four, as opposed to the more classic 1st, 2nd, checking, energy.

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05-03-2013, 05:05 PM
  #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadman View Post
There has been quite a bit of talk about lots of cap space to use. So I went to cap geek and built a roster.]

Notes:
BOB 4.5
Anisimov 3.0
Vinny 2.5 (same)
Comeau 1.25 (same)
New Guy top line LW 4.00
Back-up Goalie 1.0

These may be high, may be low, just tried to get at least a ball park starting point to explore just what kind of capspace might actually be available. As you can see using these numbers we end up with ~2.25 as a cushion and a full 23 man roster.

Adjust my signing numbers as you wish but things do start to get a little binding if you start to talk about 5,6,7 M free agents/trades.

Anyway, it's a start.

The unknown numbers look close to what I was figuring today (I've been to CG several times today)... If Vinny is signed I don't think he gets 2.5 from us though, I'm thinking 1.5 but could be wrong.. Not sure Comeau stays and you correctly left Aucoin out.. Your centers are on the mark! I expect Johansen to be playing 1st line next season.

If they do go for a forward I think they will try to match him with Gaborik, therefore a left winger...

Nice job Roadman..

Oh, you did the defense as I would too.... I fully expect Prout to be on the team and most likely Murray and Erxion...


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05-03-2013, 05:34 PM
  #222
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Foligno on 4th line... that's depth.
That's also an $8.6 mil fourth line.

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05-03-2013, 05:52 PM
  #223
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If Vinny is signed I don't think he gets 2.5 from us though, I'm thinking 1.5 but could be wrong.
Be careful Robert. Sacred Cow Alert

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05-03-2013, 05:52 PM
  #224
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That's also an $8.6 mil fourth line.
And almost 10 mil on #5,6,7 D.

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05-03-2013, 05:55 PM
  #225
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That's also an $8.6 mil fourth line.
My purpose was to get a handle on the financials of the roster, not the lineup.

I would be VERY surprised if it actually rolled out that way.

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