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Hurricanes Off Season Thread: When Tlusty doesn't score 40, who will be to blame?

View Poll Results: When Tlusty doesn't hit 40 next year, whose fault will it be?
Eric Staal's Leadership 16 5.80%
Kirk Muller's Coaching 4 1.45%
Patrick Eaves' Shoe Collection 25 9.06%
Defense 5 1.81%
Lack of depth everywhere 5 1.81%
Special Teams 3 1.09%
No team toughness 10 3.62%
JR needs to go!!! 5 1.81%
NO FLAGS AT CENTER ICE!?! 203 73.55%
Voters: 276. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
05-03-2013, 03:29 PM
  #151
Metro Misfits
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I kinda like this idea:

Tlusty // Eric // Semin (They don't **** with perfection line)
Skinner // Jordan // Nichushkin (2 trucks and a smurf line)
Dwyer // Nash // Ruutu (Speed and checking line)
Westgarth // Welsh // Blanchard (Ass kickers line)

Since everyone likes Lydman

Faulk // Lydman
Gleason // Pitkanen
Harrison // Murphy
MAB

Ward
Ellis

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Old
05-03-2013, 03:36 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by What the Faulk View Post
Vagrant, weren't you one of the ones defending Ruutu's signing back then on the premise that he was one of the few physical players that the team had and they had to keep him because of it? Granted, a lot has changed in the year since then, but I don't have a problem fitting Ruutu under the cap if he can stay healthy and contribute like he did at the end of the year. It's not as if he's really movable with his NMC anyway.
Without question I was one of those defenders of his contract. At the time our team was so bereft of talent that losing him would have been suicide. JR did what he had to do in order to keep an asset. What has become increasingly more apparent is that he is losing his place in the lineup as a result of the emergence of Tlusty, the addition of Semin, and the continued development of Skinner that we project to happen. Now, instead of being a team that is so starved for forward talent that we have to keep Ruutu to field a competent team, we have created a strength the way that strong teams do. Home team development of a player in Tlusty, home grown development of a player in Skinner, and the addition of Semin through free agency to compliment that group. The building of the Top 6 has been textbook and JR deserves a lot of credit for making that happen, but now the focus turns to fixing the remaining problems on the roster.

At no point will you hear me say that Ruutu is a garbage player that doesn't deserve his money. I don't feel I have ever slagged him for his contributions when fully healthy. I do worry that his injuries are going to make him a bad bet moving forward, but by all indications he's a useful player at his number. However, when you have glaring holes in other areas you have to prioritize based upon which players are expendable. Ruutu missed the portion of the season in which we were dominant offensively and saw a peak of what could potentially be the start of something really impressive. We have an incoming draft pick that could be a game changer and forward seems like the likely option. Our best prospect at forward is likely not ridiculously far from NHL availability in Rask. We now have options where we didn't have options at the time Ruutu signed that contract and his mobility has changed.

I feel like if I said that his physicality was a primary reason to keep him, it was based upon the knowledge that our organization and many others values his style quite a bit. That in the interest of asset retention, it was the only move after trading for him and giving up Ladd.

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Old
05-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Well, I am of the opinion that everybody hits in the playoffs and everybody gets hit. The players that stand out in the playoffs are the guys that don't get intimidated by the pace and allow their offense to shine through. You don't win games because you're tough on the boards, though it helps, you still have to score if you're a scorer. Ruutu wasn't able to get that done. It's the same way that Erik Cole still has a reputation as a notable playoff performer despite only really being effective in the '02 run... and even then it was fairly hit or miss. People seem to carry this outmoded perception that players that are above average in the physical department are automatically good playoff players when that thought is errant in so many ways. Conversely, people seem to hold that one dimensional offensive players lose all value in the postseason which is equally errant. Playoff success should be a case by case evaluation without sweeping wholesale generalizations. Tuomo Ruutu was not good for us that year.

Intangibles are great, but I am not of the opinion that you bypass tangibles in favor of them.
I understand all that and agree.

What I am saying is that Ruutu is just not easily replaceable. If management judges that he is no longer worth his salary, I can totally get behind that. But this team sorely needs a physical player who will make people think twice about taking advantage of Skinner and Semin, guys like that. It was an issue this season, even before things went to hell.

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Old
05-03-2013, 05:26 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
Ruutu was hardly "a ghost" in those playoffs, even if he didn't score he hit everything in sight and played tough on the boards. That team also had Walker and Cole....other than Ruutu the closest thing to a physical winger on the current roster is Tim Wallace.
He was absolutely terrible. I remember even Mo criticizing him, saying he never had the puck. He had 4 points in 16 games and only 17 shots on goal despite getting top 6 ice time.

But the funniest number is this:

With Ruutu on the ice: 18.6 shots for/60, 27.8 shots against/60.

loooool.

These are by far the worst number on the team. His corsi rating was -20.8. Ray Whitney? +18.9. Eric Staal? +15. I guess having talent actually matters more than checking players after they've released the puck. Ruutu was atrocious in the playoffs.

Quote:
What I am saying is that Ruutu is just not easily replaceable. If management judges that he is no longer worth his salary, I can totally get behind that. But this team sorely needs a physical player who will make people think twice about taking advantage of Skinner and Semin, guys like that. It was an issue this season, even before things went to hell.
I don't get it. How does Ruutu hitting people make people think twice about taking advantage of our players? Did his presence accomplish this in previous years? Did him coming back do this? I think not.

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05-03-2013, 08:07 PM
  #155
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The more important part of being physical, is probably the cycle game. Particularly for Jordan Staal's line. When matched up against the other teams top line, staying in the offensive zone is sort of like killing off a penalty. Even if you're not generating a scoring chance, the possession time limits the other teams playmakers from being effective.

It's what I didn't like about Riley Nash and company. They were in, they were out, and then they got pinned in their own zone, because they couldn't physically win possession battles.

It's why I don't like Skinner with Staal. Jordan is made for sustained pressure. Skinner gets a shot on goal, or turns the puck over almost immediately. I think that's why Jordan/Ruutu saw some chemistry, they are actually playing the same game once they get in the zone.

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05-03-2013, 09:13 PM
  #156
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Yeah I don't see Skinner and JS playing together effectively. Totally different types of games.


Last edited by rocky7: 05-03-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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Old
05-04-2013, 07:17 AM
  #157
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what about the idea of rolling a kid line as our 3rd line?

Tlusty - E Staal - Semin
Ruutu - J Staal - Dwyer or Dalpe (I know, I know, need to stop penciling these guys in for top 6 roles)
Skinner - Monahan - Welsh
Blanchard - Nash - Dwyer/UFA/Bowman/Westgarth

If Welshy can keep up he could be the guy needed to add some physical punch to that line, figuratively and literally. Might as well try it in camp for a bit. Logic behind that move would be that the Skinner line would be seeing 3rd line/pairing type opposition so they'd have a much better chance of producing offensively.

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05-04-2013, 07:45 AM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
The more important part of being physical, is probably the cycle game. Particularly for Jordan Staal's line. When matched up against the other teams top line, staying in the offensive zone is sort of like killing off a penalty. Even if you're not generating a scoring chance, the possession time limits the other teams playmakers from being effective.

It's what I didn't like about Riley Nash and company. They were in, they were out, and then they got pinned in their own zone, because they couldn't physically win possession battles.

It's why I don't like Skinner with Staal. Jordan is made for sustained pressure. Skinner gets a shot on goal, or turns the puck over almost immediately. I think that's why Jordan/Ruutu saw some chemistry, they are actually playing the same game once they get in the zone.
Being physical does help in the cycle game but I don't think you have to be overly physical to be effective there. Case in point for me is Brandon Sutter. Not very physical but great tenacity, will (or the "want to" the bonehead announcers like to call it) and determination combined with a very good knowledge of angles and leverage make him very effective there. The commitment to reading the play, starting and stopping also factor in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky7 View Post
Yeah I don't see Skinner and JS playing together effectively. Totally different types of games.
I don't agree with that logic. Pairing players with differing styles that complement one another is a key ingredient in making an effective line. You could argue chemistry maybe.

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05-04-2013, 08:35 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
The more important part of being physical, is probably the cycle game. Particularly for Jordan Staal's line. When matched up against the other teams top line, staying in the offensive zone is sort of like killing off a penalty. Even if you're not generating a scoring chance, the possession time limits the other teams playmakers from being effective.

It's what I didn't like about Riley Nash and company. They were in, they were out, and then they got pinned in their own zone, because they couldn't physically win possession battles.

It's why I don't like Skinner with Staal. Jordan is made for sustained pressure. Skinner gets a shot on goal, or turns the puck over almost immediately. I think that's why Jordan/Ruutu saw some chemistry, they are actually playing the same game once they get in the zone.
When the second line was working early in the season, one of the main reasons it worked was using Skinner as the 3rd forward in the forecheck. Jordan and the other forward would forecheck and Skinner would clean up.

I think the same concept could continue to work on a Skinner-J.Staal-Ruutu line or if a different RW who could help on that forecheck is brought in. It lets Skinner have more center duties on the offensive end and in the forecheck.

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05-04-2013, 09:46 AM
  #160
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I never thought of Brandon Sutter as that good on the boards. Most of his scoring has always been on the rush. A lot of that due to starting in the defensive zone, but sustained pressure wasn't really ever a thing for his line, was it?

And Skinner being the third forward while Ruutu/Staal could work, but those aren't really his strengths. Sticking him on the 3rd line with the puck on his stick, to dipsy doodle around seems like a better option, and finding a second Tlusty for the second line seems like a better plan.

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05-04-2013, 10:19 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I never thought of Brandon Sutter as that good on the boards. Most of his scoring has always been on the rush. A lot of that due to starting in the defensive zone, but sustained pressure wasn't really ever a thing for his line, was it?

And Skinner being the third forward while Ruutu/Staal could work, but those aren't really his strengths. Sticking him on the 3rd line with the puck on his stick, to dipsy doodle around seems like a better option, and finding a second Tlusty for the second line seems like a better plan.
Down low behind the net and in the corners, he was really good in a cycle game. You're right though that with a rotating cast his line wasn't a monster core of cyclers but individually he's excellent.

Agree with point about Skinner. There was no consistent use of a 3-man forecheck, way too risky, unless it was late and they were trailing by a couple.

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Old
05-04-2013, 08:43 PM
  #162
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My plan:
1. Draft Monahan.
2. Acquire a defenseman.
3. Let LaRose, Brent and Corvo walk.
4. Bergeron on a league minimum.
5. Ellis at 800k; Peters to minors.
6. Bring back Dadonov at 1 million, 1 year contract.
7. 1 of Dalpe/Welsh/Boychuk to the NHL.
8. Goodbye Westgarth.

Roll:

Tlusty (1.6)- E. Staal (8.25)- Semin (7)
Dalpe (750k)- J. Staal (6)- Ruutu (4.75)
Skinner (5.725)-Monahan (1.2)- Dadonov (1)
Blanchard (.537)-Nash(.825)- Dwyer (.625)

Faulk (.900)-XXX
Pitkanen (4.5)-Gleason (4)
Harrison (.7)-Murphy (1.3)
Bergeron (.500)

Ward (6.3)
Ellis (800k)

That puts us at 57 million, or roughly 7 million in cap space.

If 61 million is our target, we can trade McBain + for Coburn or spend to add another forward. The takeaway point is that we have enough space to add someone provided we go young in our bottom 6. This is crunch time for Welsh/Dalpe/Nash/Blanchard to step up. Getting Coburn puts us at 62 million, and gives us a playoff competitive roster IMO.

Getting Dadonov, who led his team in scoring last year, back on a cheap ass contract will help (a la Babchuk) will also help.

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05-04-2013, 08:47 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
My plan:
1. Draft Monahan.
2. Acquire a defenseman.
3. Let LaRose, Brent and Corvo walk.
4. Bergeron on a league minimum.
5. Ellis at 800k; Peters to minors.
6. Bring back Dadonov at 1 million, 1 year contract.
7. 1 of Dalpe/Welsh/Boychuk to the NHL.
8. Goodbye Westgarth.

Roll:

Tlusty (1.6)- E. Staal (8.25)- Semin (7)
Dalpe (750k)- J. Staal (6)- Ruutu (4.75)
Skinner (5.725)-Monahan (1.2)- Dadonov (1)
Blanchard (.537)-Nash(.825)- Dwyer (.625)

Faulk (.900)-XXX
Pitkanen (4.5)-Gleason (4)
Harrison (.7)-Murphy (1.3)
Bergeron (.500)

Ward (6.3)
Ellis (800k)

That puts us at 57 million, or roughly 7 million in cap space.

If 61 million is our target, we can trade McBain + for Coburn or spend to add another forward. The takeaway point is that we have enough space to add someone provided we go young in our bottom 6. This is crunch time for Welsh/Dalpe/Nash/Blanchard to step up. Getting Coburn puts us at 62 million, and gives us a playoff competitive roster IMO.

Getting Dadonov, who led his team in scoring last year, back on a cheap ass contract will help (a la Babchuk) will also help.
You had me up until this point. Why get rid of the guy when he has such a presence? Even sitting on the bench, the team feels safer knowing that Westgarth is there to keep opposing players in line.

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05-04-2013, 08:50 PM
  #164
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Westgarth is an important local connection to Bill Cowher. He'll have a job until he decides he doesn't want to get punched in the head anymore.

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05-04-2013, 08:52 PM
  #165
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Curse you Cowher!!!

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05-04-2013, 09:02 PM
  #166
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Wait, why does it matter if we have a connection with Bill Cowher? Are we going to try and get him to coach our special teams or something?

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05-05-2013, 05:51 AM
  #167
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Wait, why does it matter if we have a connection with Bill Cowher? Are we going to try and get him to coach our special teams or something?
They probably figure it can't hurt to make very wealthy people interested in supporting the team.

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05-05-2013, 09:17 AM
  #168
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Wait, why does it matter if we have a connection with Bill Cowher? Are we going to try and get him to coach our special teams or something?
That could work. I mean, he can't do any worse than the team did this season.

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Old
05-05-2013, 12:38 PM
  #169
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My Plan
--------

1 - Draft Nichushkin
2 - Aquire a defenseman (people seem big on Lydman)
3 - Let MAB, Brent, LaRose walk
4 - Trade Rask+ for Vanek
5 - Corvo for league minimum
6 - Welsh, Nash, Murphy and Blanchard full time NHLers
7 - Ellis 800k

Tlusty//Eric//Semin (Boss Line)
Vanek//Jordan//Ruutu (Sooooo Sexy Line)
Skinner//Welsh//Nichushkin (Youth Movement//Energy Line)
Westgarth//Nash//Blanchard (RAWR Line)

Faulk//Lydman
Gleason//Pitkänen
Harrison//Murphy
Corvo

Ward
Ellis

Win Cup

GG NO RE

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05-05-2013, 12:39 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
My Plan
--------

1 - Draft Nichushkin
2 - Aquire a defenseman (people seem big on Lydman)
3 - Let MAB, Brent, LaRose walk
4 - Trade Rask+ for Vanek
5 - Corvo for league minimum
6 - Welsh, Nash, Murphy and Blanchard full time NHLers
7 - Ellis 800k

Tlusty//Eric//Semin (Boss Line)
Vanek//Jordan//Ruutu (Sooooo Sexy Line)
Skinner//Welsh//Nichushkin (Youth Movement//Energy Line)
Westgarth//Nash//Blanchard (RAWR Line)

Faulk//Lydman
Gleason//Pitkänen
Harrison//Murphy
Corvo

Ward
Ellis

Win Cup

GG NO RE
I'm pretty sure there's no way that'll fit under the cap. But let me look.

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05-05-2013, 12:40 PM
  #171
What the Faulk
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How are you going to afford all those players, and how are you expecting to get Vanek without giving up the first, Murphy, any NHLer or anything of real value?

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05-05-2013, 12:45 PM
  #172
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Yeah, even without acquiring Lydman and bringing up Murphy (but still with McBain on the team and no-resigned Corvo), we're over the cap.

And that's without paying Nichushkin or re-signing Ellis as well.

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05-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PublicEnemy View Post
I'm pretty sure there's no way that'll fit under the cap. But let me look.
capgeek says it's nip and tuck, but if Lydman will sign for less than the 3m he made this year, we can narrowly make it work

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05-05-2013, 12:55 PM
  #174
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Originally Posted by Carolinas Identity View Post
capgeek says it's nip and tuck, but if Lydman will sign for less than the 3m he made this year, we can narrowly make it work
I'm not getting that at all. Show me how you magically get that to work on capgeek.

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05-05-2013, 01:28 PM
  #175
What the Faulk
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Yeah I've got it at about 3.5M over with Corvo at 300k because I'm not sure what the league minimum is. Also Dwyer is still around and you don't have him in the lineup.

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