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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 6

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05-11-2013, 01:43 AM
  #251
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Really? I would take Schenn in a heartbeat for our team, I guess we just have differing opinions.
He isn't the player that we need. Can he come in and take the #1 offensive minutes? No, he can't. He wouldn't be any better than Berglund right now.

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05-11-2013, 01:44 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoofSlashFoig View Post
Really? I would take Schenn in a heartbeat for our team, I guess we just have differing opinions.
As good as I think Schenn is going to be, I don't think he's the right guy for us at this point. We need the guy who is already the #1 center, not the one that might be in a few years.

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05-11-2013, 09:08 AM
  #253
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What sort of center could we get if we package up Halak+Stewart and something else?

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05-11-2013, 10:16 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Far too much.
You could likely drop the first, or ask for the Blues first (2014) back. The latter is still an overpayment by the Oilers though.

Something like:

Shattenkirk, 1st (2014), 2nd (Ottawa-2013)
for
7th overall, MPS and a 2nd would work best I believe.
WTH is an MPS?

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05-11-2013, 10:22 AM
  #255
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Id move Perron for Schenn + maybe a 2nd or something

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05-11-2013, 10:37 AM
  #256
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Schenn won't be moved. If the Flyers are trading a young high end center it's Couts. Schenn was on pace for a 44 point campaign this year. Now, that doesn't seem that great, but he has progressed extremely nicely. This would have been his first full NHL year, but due to the lockout, that didn't happen. In his first year he had .33PPG and this year he had .55PPG. If his development curve continues, I think we could see a .65-.7 PPG pace from him next year. That pace would put him at 54-57 points, which is definitely 2nd line center material. He is only 21 still too. Plays the game extremely hard and never takes a shift off. He is going to be one heck of a player.

Also if we are trading Couts, we probably are doing it to get a defenseman. I don't see that working out between us at the current moment.

Hartnell might be an interesting player for the Blues though. He can score and play in all the dirty spots on the ice.

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05-11-2013, 12:27 PM
  #257
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I guarantee you that Kevin Shattenkirk will be a big bargaining chip for the Blues this summer.

I don't want him to be but it makes sense. He has huge value as a 23 year old, 40-45 point d-man. However, he is our #3 here. He only averaged 18:36 of ice time in the playoffs. He became a far less critical part of our team when Bouwmeester was brought over.

Look for Shattenkirk to be moved with Hakanpaa as his possible replacement. I'm not saying Hakanpaa is going to replace Shatty's production but I heard very good things about him in Peoria. It's an area where the Blues can save money in order to spend it on our bigger needs.

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05-11-2013, 12:29 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
I guarantee you that Kevin Shattenkirk will be a big bargaining chip for the Blues this summer.

I don't want him to be but it makes sense. He has huge value as a 23 year old, 40-45 point d-man. However, he is our #3 here. He only averaged 18:36 of ice time in the playoffs. He became a far less critical part of our team when Bouwmeester was brought over.

Look for Shattenkirk to be moved with Hakanpaa as his possible replacement. I'm not saying Hakanpaa is going to replace Shatty's production but I heard very good things about him in Peoria. It's an area where the Blues can save money in order to spend it on our bigger needs.
I think we might try to fill that with a veteran. Zidlicky and Corvo are two guys we should think about targeting in Free Agency if we want to trade Shatty.

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05-11-2013, 12:31 PM
  #259
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Shattenkirk won't be moved. We need PMD to be successful moving him would leave us with Jackman, Polak, Russell, and Cole in the bottom 4. One PMD in the bottom 4 will not get it done.

The center that we'd need if we trade Shattenkirk won't be available.

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05-11-2013, 12:38 PM
  #260
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Shatty isn't worth trading unless it's for a superstar. Think Malkin. You DON'T trade young d-men if they're not needed to be a #1. Let him continue developing. He has the ability to rush the puck all the way up the ice when he's confident. Can't replace the offence he brings from the back end either. Look what happened when Detroit lost Rafalski. That's Shatty's potential.

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05-11-2013, 12:39 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Shattenkirk won't be moved. We need PMD to be successful moving him would leave us with Jackman, Polak, Russell, and Cole in the bottom 4. One PMD in the bottom 4 will not get it done.

The center that we'd need if we trade Shattenkirk won't be available.
Don't be so sure.

Shattenkirk was 5th in ice time among the d-men in the playoffs. That should tell you a lot about how valuable he is to the team. I'm not saying he isn't valuable but he may end up having more value in a trade if we could move him for a #1 center.

What do we need more? A #1 center or a guy playing 3rd pairing minutes in the crucial games?

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05-11-2013, 12:43 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Don't be so sure.

Shattenkirk was 5th in ice time among the d-men in the playoffs. That should tell you a lot about how valuable he is to the team. I'm not saying he isn't valuable but he may end up having more value in a trade if we could move him for a #1 center.

What do we need more? A #1 center or a guy playing 3rd pairing minutes in the crucial games?
His minutes were down because Hitch used the 2nd and 3rd pairings based on offensive and defensive situations and against LA we needed defense more.

Late in games Shattenkirk was heavily used and that is a bigger indicator of importance.

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05-11-2013, 12:44 PM
  #263
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Who was on the ice with Petro when they were pressing for a goal late last night? Shattenkirk didn't play well with Leopold. Why they took Jackman away from him, I'll never know. Jackman's play suffered from not playing with Petro and Shatty, while Polak iced the puck every chance he could get. It was a stupid decision. How can you expect your team to score if they can't transition the puck? Hitch went the defensive route with his pairings and it (potentially) backfired. What did Leopold actually do to warrant all of that PP time? Wouldn't Frank have been a better option? You know, the guy that gets paid to score?

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05-11-2013, 12:47 PM
  #264
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BTW, I didn't mean to say Shattenkirk WILL be moved. I misspoke.

I just mean that if we look to land a true #1 center(Spezza, MacKinnon, RNH, etc.), we're going to have give up some valuable pieces.

Shattenkirk has a lot of value but he isn't an extremely crucial part of this team now that we have a top pairing that plays 25 minutes and a shutdown 2nd pairing that both face the top lines of other teams.

If Nathan MacKinnon is sitting at 3 and Steve Yzerman wants Shattenkirk and Stewart for the pick, I can't say no.

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05-11-2013, 12:52 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
His minutes were down because Hitch used the 2nd and 3rd pairings based on offensive and defensive situations and against LA we needed defense more.

Late in games Shattenkirk was heavily used and that is a bigger indicator of importance.
Check his ice time throughout the regular season games. This trend isn't new. It started when the Blues added Bouwmeester and Leopold. Shattenkirk's ice time fell quite a bit.

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05-11-2013, 12:56 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
BTW, I didn't mean to say Shattenkirk WILL be moved. I misspoke.

I just mean that if we look to land a true #1 center(Spezza, MacKinnon, RNH, etc.), we're going to have give up some valuable pieces.

Shattenkirk has a lot of value but he isn't an extremely crucial part of this team now that we have a top pairing that plays 25 minutes and a shutdown 2nd pairing that both face the top lines of other teams.

If Nathan MacKinnon is sitting at 3 and Steve Yzerman wants Shattenkirk and Stewart for the pick, I can't say no.
Thank god Armstrong would laugh at that.

Once Leopold is gone, Jackman will go back to Shattenkirk and Shatty will average over 20 minutes again. Anyone who watched knows that Leopold pulled him down.

I just see us using Perron/Stewart/Berglund as the main trade pieces. Moving Shattenkirk would mean we'd have to move one of those too and I don't think our offseason will be super complicated.

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05-11-2013, 12:58 PM
  #267
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if you look at Carles' contract a Shatty replacement is nearly or even more expensive than him but not so good...makes no sense to me

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05-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
Check his ice time throughout the regular season games. This trend isn't new. It started when the Blues added Bouwmeester and Leopold. Shattenkirk's ice time fell quite a bit.
Because that's how Hitch utilized the pairings. Shattenkirk and Leopold got offensive minutes, Jackman and Polak got defensive minutes.

Late in games, Shattenkirk was still the go to guy along with Pietrangelo. That is still more telling IMO.

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05-11-2013, 01:01 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
if you look at Carles' contract a Shatty replacement is nearly or even more expensive than him but not so good...makes no sense to me
Check the contracts of #1 centers. Hell, check the availability of #1 centers.

#1 center > D-man playing 3rd pairing minutes. Gotta give to get.

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05-11-2013, 01:02 PM
  #270
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Because that's how Hitch utilized the pairings. Shattenkirk and Leopold got offensive minutes, Jackman and Polak got defensive minutes.

Late in games, Shattenkirk was still the go to guy along with Pietrangelo. That is still more telling IMO.
And that is how we will continue to utilize the pairings.

You haven't sold me that Shattenkirk is of greater need to this team than a #1 center.

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05-11-2013, 01:05 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
And that is how we will continue to utilize the pairings.

You haven't sold me that Shattenkirk is of greater need to this team than a #1 center.
Except when Leopold is gone, Jackman will go back with Shatty and Russell will be with Polak. Shatty will then receive 20+ minutes.

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05-11-2013, 01:07 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
I guarantee you that Kevin Shattenkirk will be a big bargaining chip for the Blues this summer.

I don't want him to be but it makes sense. He has huge value as a 23 year old, 40-45 point d-man. However, he is our #3 here. He only averaged 18:36 of ice time in the playoffs. He became a far less critical part of our team when Bouwmeester was brought over.

Look for Shattenkirk to be moved with Hakanpaa as his possible replacement. I'm not saying Hakanpaa is going to replace Shatty's production but I heard very good things about him in Peoria. It's an area where the Blues can save money in order to spend it on our bigger needs.
I don't think Shatty gets moved. If he does Roman Polak slides up to the second paring. Think about that. That's a frightening proposition.

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05-11-2013, 01:09 PM
  #273
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Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Polak
Russell-Cole

We just went from arguably the best defensive core to very, very average.

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05-11-2013, 01:11 PM
  #274
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It makes way more sense to go after someone like Plekanec as Montreal will be looking for wingers. Or we decide that Berglund is good enough on the 2nd line and we target a top finisher like Shattenkirk, who would again require Stewart/Perron+

Shatty won't be ready until Schmaltz is NHL ready.

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05-11-2013, 01:14 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Except when Leopold is gone, Jackman will go back with Shatty and Russell will be with Polak. Shatty will then receive 20+ minutes.
You assume Leopold is automatically gone. Not sure why. Outside of Game 4, he was a solid 3rd pairing d-man for us. We also had to give up a 2nd round pick to get him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedBlue247
I don't think Shatty gets moved. If he does Roman Polak slides up to the second paring. Think about that. That's a frightening proposition.
Check the ice time in the playoffs and who these guys were playing against. Polak is already on the 2nd pairing.

BTW, check out the Kings defense:
Doughty-Reghyr
Voynov-Muzzin
Scuderi-Martinez

Our defense is head and shoulders better than that group and yet they won the Cup last year(replace Reghyr/Muzzin with Willie Mitchell and Matt Greene) and they just beat us this year.

We have to get a #1 center people. It's of faaaar greater need than keeping a d-man that plays less than 19 minutes a night in the crucial games.

BTW, I don't move Shatty for anything less than a #1 center. Please know that.

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