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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 6

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05-12-2013, 01:45 PM
  #326
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Interesting tweets from JR, Lou, and Strickland regarding what could possibly happen over the summer. Seems like Allen will get his chance to be with the Blues next season, Lehtera will be a priority, and we likely won't focus on free agency.

No indication of whether we are looking to trade for a center or finisher though.
I don't see the need to go to free agency either except for depth.

One of Stewart/Perron/Berglund needs to go in order to bring in a center and also possibly counter the cap hit.

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05-12-2013, 02:49 PM
  #327
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Armstrong will definitely make at least 1 trade.

I'm sure he'll be looking at centers, but really there's no point in him coming out and saying that right now.

He said pretty much everything I expected. I'm sure we'll sign our RFA's and then look for potential deals.

I'd be surprised if all 3 of Perron, Berglund and Stewart are wearing a Blues uniform next season. I don't see that happening at all.

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05-13-2013, 09:43 AM
  #328
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Not sure if it was mentioned, but apparently Lehtera had a late season concussion and that was why he decided not to come over after his season was over in the KHL. If that's true and that's the only reason, I think he will be the main addition, and we roll with Backes, Berglund, and Lehtera as the main centers.

Maybe we make a trade for a finisher or futures if someone is deemed expendable. Maybe if a gift of a deal comes along. Should be interesting if Boston loses in the first round. Bergeron and Seguin have a combined 1 point so far.

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05-13-2013, 11:06 AM
  #329
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Not sure if it was mentioned, but apparently Lehtera had a late season concussion and that was why he decided not to come over after his season was over in the KHL. If that's true and that's the only reason, I think he will be the main addition, and we roll with Backes, Berglund, and Lehtera as the main centers.

Maybe we make a trade for a finisher or futures if someone is deemed expendable. Maybe if a gift of a deal comes along. Should be interesting if Boston loses in the first round. Bergeron and Seguin have a combined 1 point so far.
Where did you hear that? It would make sense. It was known he picked up a concussion in the final regular season KHL game and missed the first few games against Avangard in the playoffs. Him choosing that it wasn't right to come over mid-season makes more sense than us not asking him to come over as soon as Sibir's season ended.

I agree that we'll probably go as we are next season. I think we need a bigger move, I'd like to see something bold, but it will likely be another midseason adjustment.

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05-13-2013, 11:13 AM
  #330
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Where did you hear that? It would make sense. It was known he picked up a concussion in the final regular season KHL game and missed the first few games against Avangard in the playoffs. Him choosing that it wasn't right to come over mid-season makes more sense than us not asking him to come over as soon as Sibir's season ended.

I agree that we'll probably go as we are next season. I think we need a bigger move, I'd like to see something bold, but it will likely be another midseason adjustment.
Strickland. His "sources" say that Lehtera wants to come over, so I guess it just depends on who his sources are. His sources might not lie this time too since when it was about Tarasenko the KHL desperately wanted to keep him, they probably won't be that attached to Lehtera.

As for a trade, I do expect some sort of move over the summer, but I think the big move will be like the Bouwmeester deal. There was a good amount of smoke about Bouwmeester last summer and JR did mention him by name a few times, so if we hear him or Lou specifically mention a certain player, I think we will have a very good idea of what we are planning. I remember asking JR about Lehtera before anything was really surfacing and it seemed like he knew we had strong interest in him.

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05-13-2013, 11:44 AM
  #331
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Lehterä has spoken to Russian media a couple of times this year, and has all but said outright that he wants to be in St. Louis next season. He was very clear, so I'm guessing that is Stricklands "sources". Certainly agree about JR being the most reliable.

When you look at our NHL roster, it is actually pretty difficult to see an obvious move. Unlikely to be anything minor given our depth players in both offense and defense. So if we do something, it's going to be pretty significant.

I would say that I wouldn't be surprised if we looked to bring in Brière when he is bought out. Whether he would sign here, and whether we'd have made moves to create the roster space is another thing altogether. I think we'll be looking for experience from somewhere.

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05-13-2013, 12:12 PM
  #332
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I dont see Allen in the minors next year, he proved he is ready for this level. Maybe a trade wont happen with a goalie until camp though. I have seen a lot of talk about Miller, but I'm not sure what the hype is about him. He had one great year, and personally, I dont think hes been the same since he got steam rolled a year or so ago.

I agree with what others have said about one of Perron, Berglund or Stewart being gone. Of the three, I guess I would keep Bergy. I think Perron could be a great player, but I just dont think it can /will happen here. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

And I think its time to either fish or cut bait with Cole. You cant keep him in the press box for 3 years. For his own sake, either play him or trade him so he can play somewhere.

The free agent market doesnt look all that appealing to me, so anything major is going to have to come via the trade route.

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05-13-2013, 01:05 PM
  #333
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I haven't listened yet, but here is an interview with Kelly Chase on 101ESPN from today. http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/ke...ing-5-13-13-2/


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05-13-2013, 01:31 PM
  #334
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I haven't listened yet, but here is an interview with Kelly Chase on 101ESPN from today. http://www.101sports.com/podcasts/ke...ing-5-13-13-2/
Chase believes a move of significance will be made at the draft.

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05-13-2013, 02:12 PM
  #335
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I dont see Allen in the minors next year, he proved he is ready for this level. Maybe a trade wont happen with a goalie until camp though. I have seen a lot of talk about Miller, but I'm not sure what the hype is about him. He had one great year, and personally, I dont think hes been the same since he got steam rolled a year or so ago.

I agree with what others have said about one of Perron, Berglund or Stewart being gone. Of the three, I guess I would keep Bergy. I think Perron could be a great player, but I just dont think it can /will happen here. He needs a fresh start somewhere else.

And I think its time to either fish or cut bait with Cole. You cant keep him in the press box for 3 years. For his own sake, either play him or trade him so he can play somewhere.

The free agent market doesnt look all that appealing to me, so anything major is going to have to come via the trade route.
If the indications are correct, then our line up looks something like...

Schwartz - Backes - Oshie
Perron - Berglund - Stewart
Steen - Lehterä - Tarasenko
Porter - Sobotka - Reaves
Cracknell/?????

Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Jackman - Shattenkirk (please!)
Russell - Polák
Cole

Elliott
Halák/Allen

It's difficult to see what moving 1 of Perron, Stewart or Berglund would do because it would be a direct swap with someone. Package 2 maybe? Again though, Berglund can't really be moved unless we are getting a C coming back.

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05-13-2013, 02:31 PM
  #336
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Wonder if they are trying to trade for a Ryan/Vanek type. If Lehtera comes over that's what I would prefer. I don't think the center position was a glaring weakness against LA. They all played well enough against Kopitar and Richards, we just couldn't finish chances. Move Perron and Stewart in deals and have Ryan/Vanek and Sobotka/Jaskin in the top 9 instead.

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05-13-2013, 04:09 PM
  #337
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Depending on how much Stillman would want to spend on a short-term solution, Cammalleri could be worth a look.

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05-13-2013, 05:38 PM
  #338
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Wonder if they are trying to trade for a Ryan/Vanek type. If Lehtera comes over that's what I would prefer. I don't think the center position was a glaring weakness against LA. They all played well enough against Kopitar and Richards, we just couldn't finish chances. Move Perron and Stewart in deals and have Ryan/Vanek and Sobotka/Jaskin in the top 9 instead.
I can think of all kinds of reasons why the following won't happen, but it's a fantasy stab at the whole offseason.

Anaheim would require a #2C or a #2dman for Ryan. Our only possibility IMO of getting him is Shattenkirk. Shattenkirk's not yet an impact player in pressure situations. He may become one, but Ryan already is. He's the finisher (on a good contract) that the Blues desperately need. Considering how Shattenkirk played in the postseason again, the Blues could find a replacement puck-moving top-four dman with other assets they have. Namely, Chris Stewart, who was a non-physical, soft no-show again in the postseason and scored half his points in a nine-game burst in the first half of the regular season. Stewart has enough stats to get you a solid second-pairing dman. Sekera is on a great contract and is excellent moving the puck out.

Now, you could instead go with a top-three of Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester and Shattenkirk going forward and simply commit to that. The Blues may do that. Jackman will be a #4-5 dman lifer. The problem is if Shattenkirk just becomes a 40-point offensive dman in the regular season and doesn't do much in the playoffs, you're really squandering his trade value before teams see that's all he is. 18 minutes and looking very, very meh in the playoffs doesn't cut it for this team.

Shattenkirk + Veillieux + 2d for Ryan
Stewart + Halak for Sekera + Miller
Oshie + Berglund + Perron + Elliott for Malkin + 2d (I admit it, this one's a throw-in fantasy)

The Anaheim deal ... Ryan's value is more than Shattenkirk's. Blues wouldn't have to add a ton, but a LW prospect and a 2d round pick is probably enough to get that deal done. In the playoffs, Ryan's value is considerably more than Shattenkirk's. Ryan's exactly what we need in terms of a finisher. Tarasenko may become Ryan but he's a looong way from that right now. If the Blues had had Ryan instead of Shattenkirk on the roster this playoffs (and Stewart swapped for a competent PMD) I believe we'd be on our way to a conference finals date with Chicago.

The Buffalo deal ... both goalies are as good as gone from their respective teams. At the end of the day I think Ryan Miller is a better goaltender than Jaroslav Halak. He's done it longer, been more durable, and has been at least as good in the postseason as he has in the regular season. He would probably sign a four-year deal for the neighborhood of 4.5M-5.0M per when his current contract expires taking him til the summer he turns 38 and meaning 5 years with the Blues. He might give up a little more money to have his career basically go out with some real runs with a real contender. The money is basically even (Sekera = 1.75M and Miller = 6.25M while Halak = 4.5M and Stewart will probably earn between 3.5M and 4M). Sekera is exceptional at zone exits and replaces Shattenkirk's PMD aspect. Ryan is a big upgrade on Stewart. I might try and squeeze another 2d or maybe a depth bottom 6er out of this deal but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker.

The Pittsburgh deal ... I know, I know. Remember what I said this is an all-out attempt at the most realistic fantsy possible.

Ryan–Malkin–Tarasenko
Schwartz–Backes–Steen
Sobotka–Lehtera–Jaskin/Rattie or Jaskin-Sobotka-Rattie*
CPR

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Sekera
Russell-Polak
Cole

Miller/Allen

Out: Halak, Shattenkirk, Oshie, Perron, Stewart, Berglund, Elliott, Veillieux. Combined 13-14 dollars (approximate with RFA values of 4M to #22, 4M to #25, 3.2M to #21) = 21.1M
In: Miller, Malkin, Ryan, Sekera = 21.0625M

Out: McDonald, Langenbrunner, Nichol = 6.1M
In: Allen, Cracknell + two of Lehtera, Jaskin, Rattie + scheduled raises = ~5.2M

*I think Rattie's going to be ready sooner rather than later. If he put on 7-10 lbs of muscle last summer, he can do it this summer and he's relentlessly determined.

The pipeline for the D and G would remain strong. Schmaltz, Hakanpaa, Edmundson, Binnington, Lundstrom. Forward pipeline still needs some work in the upcoming draft but would have one of Jaskin/Rattie plus Tesink, Kurker, MacEachern.

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05-13-2013, 05:52 PM
  #339
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Well I guess Colorado did make it legal...

Or, Stewart+Cole+2nd for Vanek. Sign Lehtera and Morrow. Move Halak for prospect/picks.

Schwartz-Backes-Steen
Vanek-Berglund-Oshie
Perron-Lehtera-Tarasenko
Porter-Sobotka-Reaves
Cracknell
(Well I guess don't sign Morrow)

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo
Jackman-Shattenkirk
Russell-Polak
Veteran

Elliott
Allen

This would put Perron and Berglund on a real fine line and if Jaskin or Rattie light the AHL up, and one of them struggle, then they are out the door.

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05-13-2013, 05:56 PM
  #340
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Hey I said very clearly it was my fantasy/dream offseason scenario. As much as it's a crazy longshot I tried to put real thought into improving the team. The first two trades are legit.

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05-13-2013, 05:58 PM
  #341
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It's just scary how close we really are if Lehtera does actually come over and scores at a 40 point pace, which IMO is very realistic.

We don't have to do anything crazy. We don't have to trade Shattenkirk to get what we realistically need.

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05-13-2013, 06:03 PM
  #342
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I'm ok with keeping Shattenkirk but IMO he hasn't earned a safe long-term spot yet. If we keep him he's GOT to improve because where he's at now is not getting it done. It's not unreasonable that he'll improve. However, he might be a big attractive trade chip to either get a key finisher or move up high in the draft to take a 2 Legit 2 Quit center. If that happens, the Blues have the assets to get a #3Dman to replace him.

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05-13-2013, 06:11 PM
  #343
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I'm ok with keeping Shattenkirk but IMO he hasn't earned a safe long-term spot yet. If we keep him he's GOT to improve because where he's at now is not getting it done. It's not unreasonable that he'll improve. However, he might be a big attractive trade chip to either get a key finisher or move up high in the draft to take a 2 Legit 2 Quit center. If that happens, the Blues have the assets to get a #3Dman to replace him.
If you get a legit scorer, then yeah, I think we should go for it. I'd move him for Ryan and few others that could potentially be available. It really has to be a perfect deal, someone who is good and proven, but they need to be signed and youngish.

Another scenario would be if Shattenkirk was a stupid contract. I think we could sign him to a similar deal that Oshie got, and if that happens you keep him because I doubt we could match that value with someone else. Shattenkirk's value will go up when Leopold is gone and the Jackman-Shattenkirk pairing is more heavily relied upon again.

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05-13-2013, 06:37 PM
  #344
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Another random thought. Shattenkirk + Berglund + Elliott/Allen for Giroux. (I never really think about Giroux' value since he's such an unlikely trade target.)

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05-13-2013, 06:42 PM
  #345
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Another random thought. Shattenkirk + Berglund + Elliott/Allen for Giroux. (I never really think about Giroux' value since he's such an unlikely trade target.)
I think the only way philly would consider trading Giroux is if Pietrangelo is involved.

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05-13-2013, 06:46 PM
  #346
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I think the only way philly would consider trading Giroux is if Pietrangelo is involved.
Yep. His value is the same as Pietrangelo's.

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05-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #347
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I think the only way philly would consider trading Giroux is if Pietrangelo is involved.
That is probably true.

The only reason I'm even thinking (solid) quantity for quality is Philly has an obvious need for Shattenkirk and a young guy who can genuinely stop the puck. And while Giroux >>> Berglund it still leaves Philly with Schenn-Couturier-Berglund down the middle for those two upgrades.

I originally was pondering Shattenkirk + Tarasenko but that hurts them more down the middle even if Tarasenko represents more value than Berglund + Elliott/Allen.

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05-13-2013, 06:49 PM
  #348
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I'm ok with keeping Shattenkirk but IMO he hasn't earned a safe long-term spot yet. If we keep him he's GOT to improve because where he's at now is not getting it done. It's not unreasonable that he'll improve. However, he might be a big attractive trade chip to either get a key finisher or move up high in the draft to take a 2 Legit 2 Quit center. If that happens, the Blues have the assets to get a #3Dman to replace him.
Let me ask who did get it done? Pietrangelo? Bouwmeeister?Polak? Jackman? The problem with the defense pairings was the coach. Breaking up Shattenkirk and Jackman ruined the most productive pairing for the 2013 Blues.

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05-13-2013, 07:20 PM
  #349
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If Toronto wins wonder if Bergeron, Seguin, or Krejci would be available.

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05-13-2013, 08:33 PM
  #350
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Let me ask who did get it done? Pietrangelo? Bouwmeeister?Polak? Jackman? The problem with the defense pairings was the coach. Breaking up Shattenkirk and Jackman ruined the most productive pairing for the 2013 Blues.
Pietrangelo definitely got it done. He really showed up in the postseason. Bouwmeester was effective in some games, not as much in others but overall his pairing was effective because Pietrangelo was strong. Polak and Jackman started out great, but had some problems as the series wore on, especially Polak. Jackman was pretty good. A lot of what happened to them was Perron–Berglund–Oshie were horrendous defensively and could not clear the zone while those two were on the ice. Polak was a mixed bag either way. Overall our defense was not the problem.

I agree Jackman-Shattenkirk was more effective than Leopold-Shattenkirk but in the playoffs Shattenkirk was very average. I'm just standing back from the playoffs and saying if we had another puck mover to replace him (separate trade) our defense would have been just as effective but in return we'd have an elite NHL sniper too.

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