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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 6

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05-07-2013, 05:05 PM
  #126
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I think if this series has shown us anything, it's that the Blues don't need to be afraid of LA. The Blues can play their game and beat them at it. Even dominate them at it.

The biggest stumbling block at this point is themselves. They have to figure out how to keep a team down when they put them there. That's a byproduct of mental focus, work ethic, and execution under duress (fatigue or otherwise)...striving to play every shift the same from start to finish. Fighting to hold an edge in play every single shift, regardless of game situation.

It's easier said than done for even the best of teams, but that's all that's holding them back IMO.

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05-07-2013, 05:25 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I think if this series has shown us anything, it's that the Blues don't need to be afraid of LA. The Blues can play their game and beat them at it. Even dominate them at it.

The biggest stumbling block at this point is themselves. They have to figure out how to keep a team down when they put them there. That's a byproduct of mental focus, work ethic, and execution under duress (fatigue or otherwise)...striving to play every shift the same from start to finish. Fighting to hold an edge in play every single shift, regardless of game situation.

It's easier said than done for even the best of teams, but that's all that's holding them back IMO.
I'm honestly trying to remember with what I disagreed with you so much in the past now lol.

I don't have any major concerns about this core anymore. It's all mental. We can beat LA, we can dominate them, we can score on Quick, and we can take their game to them. Their mental toughness is improving and it shows with our composure this series. We are getting a lot closer to being where we need to be.

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05-07-2013, 06:19 PM
  #128
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Whatever I'd prefer it if we don't get Stastny.

He is severely overpaid.
Yep.

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05-07-2013, 06:25 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I think if this series has shown us anything, it's that the Blues don't need to be afraid of LA. The Blues can play their game and beat them at it. Even dominate them at it.

The biggest stumbling block at this point is themselves. They have to figure out how to keep a team down when they put them there. That's a byproduct of mental focus, work ethic, and execution under duress (fatigue or otherwise)...striving to play every shift the same from start to finish. Fighting to hold an edge in play every single shift, regardless of game situation.

It's easier said than done for even the best of teams, but that's all that's holding them back IMO.
That's all well and good, EB, but just because they are close to the elite teams in the playoffs doesn't mean they will ever get over the final hurdle that separates championship caliber clubs from the rest. San Jose has been trying to become the team you just described for seven years and it never happened, largely because the core personnel has been unable to display the mental toughness and execution needed to make all things you posted a reality.

If they go on to lose this series and working with what we know has happened to this point (another unmistakable meltdown against a team that has another gear the Blues can only dream of), then how many playoff runs do you give this group to make the determination if they have it in them or not?

The last thing I want is a lot of money invested in a core that never wins anything.

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05-07-2013, 06:39 PM
  #130
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That's all well and good, EB, but just because they are close to the elite teams in the playoffs doesn't mean they will ever get over the final hurdle that separates championship caliber clubs from the rest. San Jose has been trying to become the team you just described for seven years and it never happened, largely because the core personnel has been unable to display the mental toughness and execution needed to make all things you posted a reality.

If they go on to lose this series and working with what we know has happened to this point (another unmistakable meltdown against a team that has another gear the Blues can only dream of), then how many playoff runs do you give this group to make the determination if they have it in them or not?

The last thing I want is a lot of money invested in a core that never wins anything.
That's pretty much what he's saying. If we advance, this core doesn't need a shakeup. If they lose, then it is because of themselves and a shakeup will happen.

No point in discussing things that are contingent on them advancing or failing when we will actually know what happens in less then a week.

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05-07-2013, 07:54 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by TheOrganist View Post
That's all well and good, EB, but just because they are close to the elite teams in the playoffs doesn't mean they will ever get over the final hurdle that separates championship caliber clubs from the rest. San Jose has been trying to become the team you just described for seven years and it never happened, largely because the core personnel has been unable to display the mental toughness and execution needed to make all things you posted a reality.

If they go on to lose this series and working with what we know has happened to this point (another unmistakable meltdown against a team that has another gear the Blues can only dream of), then how many playoff runs do you give this group to make the determination if they have it in them or not?

The last thing I want is a lot of money invested in a core that never wins anything.
I agree, there's no guarantees. Only one team can win it all any given year, so there will always be a decent number of legitimate contenders in the league who are never able to realize their potential. Sometimes it's because there's a legitimate crippling flaw with the team in question, and sometimes it simply boils down to bad luck. It can be hard to tell the difference, even for people who do this for a living.

My post was more of an assertion that I believe the raw talent level (and coaching) is there to win it all when I watch this team. That's not something I've said very often as a Blues fan. I don't think there is any need to sell the farm to add an "elite" player like some are advocating, or to go for a massive core shakeup this offseason.

That doesn't mean I feel like the Blues should necessarily stand pat if they go on to lose this series. It just means that at this point I expect any potential changes to be more about tweaking team mentality or player role fits than significantly altering the team talent level (or payroll, for that matter).

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05-07-2013, 08:54 PM
  #132
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I couldn't agree more. The whole idea of letting the roster develop season by season is pretty much done now that we can pretty much say that players like Berglund, Oshie, and Perron are done taking big steps. I think it is time to make a move.

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05-07-2013, 09:57 PM
  #133
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If we want to trade for a center prospect, it should be a NHL ready prospect or someone who has already play a season or 2, not a draft pick IMO.

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05-07-2013, 10:26 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I think if this series has shown us anything, it's that the Blues don't need to be afraid of LA. The Blues can play their game and beat them at it. Even dominate them at it.
There is still a long way to go before we can really say that.

We all feel great right now about the way the Blues have performed but by this time next week, the Blues may be golfing.

I don't take a moral victory in beating the Kings twice in a 6 game series. I might feel a little bit better about losing in seven but it depends how we lose a Game 7 on home ice. Will it be like Game 3 or Game 4? Let's not find out!

It should also be noted that our version of dominating the Kings included a 1-1 tie that was broken by a turnover by the goalie and a fluke goal from Jackman with less than a minute left. Game 1 we thoroughly dominated. Game 2 was about as even as they come. We survived by the skin of our teeth in both.

It's absolutely great that they got the monkey off their back but they let disappointment in Game 3 carry over to domination by the Kings in Game 4. If the Blues go out in Games 5 and 6 and play the way they did in Game 4, this series will have been a HUGE disappointment. There are no two ways around it.

All that said, I'm confident we win Game 5...if the CPR line is back together. Otherwise I'm worried. I want to pound the Kings and make them uncomfortable like in Games 1 and 2 but we can't do that without the CPR line. We can't get into a shootout with LA. It has to be tight defense and hard hitting or else we are done.

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05-07-2013, 10:29 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
If we want to trade for a center prospect, it should be a NHL ready prospect or someone who has already play a season or 2, not a draft pick IMO.
Sean Couturier is our best bet here. Paul Holmgren is probably itching to make a huge trade.

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05-07-2013, 11:13 PM
  #136
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Sean Couturier is our best bet here. Paul Holmgren is probably itching to make a huge trade.
I'm really not high on his offensive potential, I'd rather have Schenn.

One realistic possibility is Bryan Little as we know Winnipeg is in the market for a top 6 RW. Getting a top center might be unrealistic, so getting someone who can get 50 points to go along with Backes and Berglund could be a good plan B. Forgot we are going to be in the same division though. None of us want Stewart against us because that was horrible when he was in Colorado.

Maybe Turris+ could be an option with the emergence of Zibanejad. Spezza would be affordable though.

Hodgson/Grigorenko is probably unrealistic.

Maybe Bjugstad is a possibility, but I think he is untouchable.

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05-08-2013, 12:56 AM
  #137
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If the Blues are going to be a true contender this post-season, and have a chance to do anything special, they'll come out and win tomorrow night convincingly. It may still go 7 games, but they won't lose game 5 at home if they're really a threat to make it to the Cup finals.

I think tomorrow night may be LA's turn to look mentally fatigued.

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05-08-2013, 01:01 AM
  #138
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If the Blues are going to be a true contender this post-season, and have a chance to do anything special, they'll come out and win tomorrow night convincingly. It may still go 7 games, but they won't lose game 5 at home if they're really a threat to make it to the Cup finals.

I think tomorrow night may be LA's turn to look mentally fatigued.
Game 5 is a must win. I don't see us beating LA in LA in an elimination game. The players should come out flying just like game 1 as game 4 was pretty similar to the 6-4 loss to LA in LA in the regular season, dominance in the first 2 periods and epic collapse in the 3rd.

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05-08-2013, 01:38 AM
  #139
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Yeah, I meant that the Blues won't win a narrow squeaker, but a multiple goal win if they really are the superior team and good enough to challenge Chicago. I think they COULD be that team, but I'm not sure the team collectively has the mental toughness to compete for the Cup. Its a skill that can be learned by experience, but only if you have the capacity to learn it. Some team, like Vancouver and San Jose, have shown over multiple post-seasons that they lack something to put them over the hump. (Maybe Vancouver deserves credit for getting to game 7 of SCF, which in a one game playoff could have gone either way. I don't mean to be unkind to them, but I do think overall those teams have lacked a certain mental toughness.)

I'm honestly not sure which category the Blues fall into . I look at David Backes, and I think "mentally tough". Sobotka, Steen: mentally tough. Jackman: mentally tough. I think it won't be long before Schwartz has cemented a place here. He's a great addition this year.

Pietro, Bouwmeester, Perron not sure about...they have yet to show us. Perron maybe has shown an ability to elevate his game. McDonald has shown it before, and this season I think the clock is catching up with him a bit.

Shattenkirk, Berglund, Oshie, Stewart....they need to show me something. Oshie is closer to it than the other 3, but still each one of those guys needs to raise his level of play if this is a Cup contender. They don't all have to do it every single game, but each one of them needs to have a game here and there where they are the difference-maker. Even a period every couple games.

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05-08-2013, 09:59 AM
  #140
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The blues would get the best value trading for a veteran over trading for a young guy. They would give up more for Couturier than they would for Stasny but Stas would play better.

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05-08-2013, 11:00 AM
  #141
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The blues would get the best value trading for a veteran over trading for a young guy. They would give up more for Couturier than they would for Stasny but Stas would play better.
A lot depends on how good Stastny is.

For 6.6 million, Stastny only put up 24 points in 40 games this season. That's a 49 point pace over 82 games. That's $134,694 per point.

For a base salary of 925,000 plus 450,000 in bonuses, Couturier put up 15 points in 46 games. That's a 27 point pace over 82 games. Thats $50,926 per point for Couturier going off his cap hit.

The big difference is that Stastny plays 19:21 a night, is 27 years old, and getting worse. Couturier plays 15:53 a night, is 20 years old, and likely to improve.

We can't add Stastny if he is going to put up 50-55 points like he has the past two seasons. He makes far too much money for that and he'll be up for another long term contract after next season. His next contract won't be 6.6 million a year but it will be around 4.5 million and even that is too rich for our blood for a #2 center.

Either route we take we are going to have to give up something good. Maybe Chris Stewart to both. As has been mentioned, Colorado will need to be persuaded to trade within the division.

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05-08-2013, 11:03 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Yeah, I meant that the Blues won't win a narrow squeaker, but a multiple goal win if they really are the superior team and good enough to challenge Chicago.
You don't beat LA by multiple goals.

The second you score a goal against them you awake the sleeping giant and they come back with a vengeance.

If the Blues win tonight, it has to be 2-1 with the second goal coming in OT or in the final minute.

I actually hate scoring goals against LA. They completely dominate the flow of the game after we do score a goal.

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05-08-2013, 11:14 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
You don't beat LA by multiple goals.

The second you score a goal against them you awake the sleeping giant and they come back with a vengeance.

If the Blues win tonight, it has to be 2-1 with the second goal coming in OT or in the final minute.

I actually hate scoring goals against LA. They completely dominate the flow of the game after we do score a goal.
You have to admit, this is pretty funny.

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05-08-2013, 11:25 AM
  #144
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You have to admit, this is pretty funny.
Funny yet true in a sense.

I'm pretty sure every person in this thread got a creeping feeling of impending doom when we went up 2-0 in the first 5 of Game 4.

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05-08-2013, 12:07 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Halak Ness Monster View Post
You don't beat LA by multiple goals.

The second you score a goal against them you awake the sleeping giant and they come back with a vengeance.

If the Blues win tonight, it has to be 2-1 with the second goal coming in OT or in the final minute.

I actually hate scoring goals against LA. They completely dominate the flow of the game after we do score a goal.
Oh good grief. They're the defending Stanley Cup Champs, not some kind of Norse Gods.

The Blues have played LA pretty evenly this series. Both teams have had some chances. Its the Blues turn to take it up a level and expose the wear and tear LA has been enduring. Its a must-win game, but the Blues have the team to do this. They have the home crowd.

I predict that either the Blues will completely cave in and chalk it up to something being fundamentally weak about this team's pysche. Or else the Blues will find another gear and win a game that isn't a squeaker. But the Blues have to take it, not wait for LA to wilt....because that won't happen to a proud champion.

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05-08-2013, 12:09 PM
  #146
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Couturier has got to be one of the most over hyped players in recent memory. There is a reason he fell in the draft. Not many players that are expected to be top picks and fall as much as he did ever actually realize their potential. Russians don't count, so don't use them as examples.

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05-08-2013, 12:19 PM
  #147
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Couturier has got to be one of the most over hyped players in recent memory. There is a reason he fell in the draft. Not many players that are expected to be top picks and fall as much as he did ever actually realize their potential. Russians don't count, so don't use them as examples.
Oh yeah, what about Pavel Datsyuk?

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05-08-2013, 12:24 PM
  #148
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Oh yeah, what about Pavel Datsyuk?
Jerk. You should try Fox Sports Plus next time NBCSN is delayed for the Blues.

At least be predictable with Tarasenko or Kuznetsov or creative with the late Cherepanov.

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05-08-2013, 12:38 PM
  #149
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Man, Canucks fans are in meltdown to the point they'll trade Garrison for a 2d and a prospect/young player. That dude chose the wrong team.

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05-08-2013, 12:44 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Oh good grief. They're the defending Stanley Cup Champs, not some kind of Norse Gods.

The Blues have played LA pretty evenly this series. Both teams have had some chances. Its the Blues turn to take it up a level and expose the wear and tear LA has been enduring. Its a must-win game, but the Blues have the team to do this. They have the home crowd.

I predict that either the Blues will completely cave in and chalk it up to something being fundamentally weak about this team's pysche. Or else the Blues will find another gear and win a game that isn't a squeaker. But the Blues have to take it, not wait for LA to wilt....because that won't happen to a proud champion.
They aren't Norse Gods but they're better than us.

This series has been even. The Blues have had their moments of domination and the Kings have had theirs.

I don't think the Blues can play any better than they did in the first 56 minutes of Game 1, the last 30 minutes of Game 2, and in the 2nd/3rd period of Game 3. How many goals did we get in that 126 minute span? Three. Three goals for a 126 minute span in which the Blues dominated.

I'm not even mad. That is how you beat LA. Low scoring, hard hitting, tight games.

We did get 2 goals in 5 minutes to start game 4 but that was, if we're being honest, the worst thing to happen to the Blues in this series. It did nothing but wake up the Kings. When the Kings are awake, the Blues are done.

If we are winning tonight's game, we are winning a low scoring squeaker.

If the Blues win in a route, I'll buy you a coke.

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