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Old
04-30-2013, 01:23 AM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
Gee look where Columbus is. I guess the standings in March sure are a good indication of how good a team is, right? Or how about the Islanders? The Capitals?

Only the standings at the end of the year really matter and even then they're still not a good indication of how good a team really is. We're three points back of last year's Eastern Conference champions.
Are you for real?

You said we were in the bottom five for "a few days".

The standings arent a good indication of how good a team really is?

What?

That has to be one of the strangest arguments I have ever seen uttered here before. And that is really saying something considering oilerbear was telling everyone that Dubnyk > Price earlier in this very thread.

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Old
04-30-2013, 01:25 AM
  #227
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I'm fine with Smyth being back as long as Horcoff is bought out. At least one of them has to just go.

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Old
04-30-2013, 01:40 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Chooch View Post
I'm fine with Smyth being back as long as Horcoff is bought out. At least one of them has to just go.
Seems like a good compromise. I'd rather see Horcoff gone IMO.

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Old
04-30-2013, 01:45 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Seems like a good compromise. I'd rather see Horcoff gone IMO.
Smyth is the worse player and should be much easier to replace.

I'd only buyout Horcoff if we have a better player to replace him or we really need the cap space.

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Old
04-30-2013, 02:06 AM
  #230
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So...as of now, our opening day centre Depth will be Gagner, Horcoff, ??????

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Old
04-30-2013, 02:45 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Shanahanigans View Post
So...as of now, our opening day centre Depth will be Gagner, Horcoff, ??????
What Lander/Arcobello/VandeVelde at 3/4/5 aren't good enough for you?

Any AHL team with that lineup would be a contender for a playoff spot... close anyway.

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Old
04-30-2013, 03:10 AM
  #232
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Pretty satisfied with what MacT had to say. I can't believe there is anyone on the boards who thinks he isn't going to be way better than Tamby. He spoke for twenty five minutes (at least in the clip that's up on the Oilers site) and was forthright, engaged, knowledgeable and clear in his responses. Tamby was never any of that.

The stuff I didn't like much was all the talk about "the story of Edmonton" that the team tries to sell. Way too much emphasis placed on that - ffs he even used the phrase "Alberta advantage". Just field a competitive roster please Craig and save the OilChange monologues for those with the will to watch the show.

Damning indictment of the roster Tamby assembled to support all his first overall picks.

"In today's NHL you really have to be a threat to score at some point. Even marginally. And we had a lot of guys that really, the best they were going to be at any given game was to be a non-factor."

Wow. "Even marginally ...." Yeah he's looking at you Belanger. And you Petrell. And you Brown. And you Smyth. Maybe Petrell or Eager would throw up the odd big game for you, but the rest of those guys seriously never looked like a threat to score all year. Props to MacT for saying it like it is. Smithson managed to get two goals I think, but he never really looked dangerous either. He did look great on draws and I think I saw him throw a few hits. So there's that in his favor.

On Dubnyk

"To be a top level goaltender he's got to play better".

Yup. MacT spoke of getting a number two, three or four goaltender in a way that made it clear that Dubnyk will be the guy again next season. MacT seems to think Dubnyk can make the progress necessary. For me that's a bit hard to believe, but he's got a contract for next year anyway so having spent five seasons on his development we may as well give him one more year.

On Gagner

"Sam had an unbelievable year".

Huh. Not "good". Not "great". "Unbelievable". And just yesterday I was seeing posts calling this player toxic, disastrous and in general deficient across most facets of the game.

"But Sam has really developed into a leader here by all regard. From the discussions I've had with our group in there he's a guy that's really developed into the type of character that we want. And that's going to be important when I'm making the decisions."

The way MacT made the statement above should leave no doubt that its unanimous among Oiler management that Gagner is an important part of the plan for this roster going forward. They aren't going to flip him for some over-rated PK wizard or a fast skating Coke machine. He may get dealt but inquiring teams are going to have to offer a lot to get Gagner. This kid is heart and soul and I feel sorry for fans who can't recognize that.

Hemsky on the other hand has probably played his last game as an Oiler. MacT was very classy in what he said about Hemsky, but I think the writing is on the wall there.

Pretty good interview all in all. So far MacT has me on his side.


Last edited by harpoon: 04-30-2013 at 07:08 AM.
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Old
04-30-2013, 08:26 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Are you for real?

You said we were in the bottom five for "a few days".

The standings arent a good indication of how good a team really is?

What?

That has to be one of the strangest arguments I have ever seen uttered here before. And that is really saying something considering oilerbear was telling everyone that Dubnyk > Price earlier in this very thread.
So the kings were only a little better than the flames last year? And the coyotes were the best team in that division?

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Old
04-30-2013, 09:12 AM
  #234
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How can bringing Smyth back even be a discussion, let alone one that is over with "he's coming back". The guy is the worst player in the NHL these days. Unless he's coming back to run up and down the aisles as a mascot he has no business being in the building.

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Old
04-30-2013, 09:23 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
So the kings were only a little better than the flames last year? And the coyotes were the best team in that division?
During the regular season you bet they were in both of your "examples". The Kings sucked during the regular season last year. Probably why they fired their coach. I happen to know this because I followed their team on a regular basis.

The Coyotes were pretty good last year. Why they even made it to the third round of the playoffs.

Keep digging.

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Old
04-30-2013, 09:49 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Using your goofy metric Corey Crawford is a better goaltender than Pekka Rinne. James Reimer > Jonathan Quick and Nabakov > Brodeur.

Laughable indeed.

Keep em coming
They are results for the year.
Results!
WHAT THEY DID!
NOT YOUR OPINION!
RESULTS


Save % is the only individual goalie measure.
Prove to me Price is better.




As for the crosby Horcoff thing.
did you even read the conversation?

Cause I did not say Horcoff was better than Crosby.
in 08-09
Crosby had 103 points made 8.7M
Horcoff had 53 points made 3.6M

I said based on a cap world:
Crosby 103points/8.7M
11.84 points/Million of salary

Horcoff 53Points/3.6M
14.72points/million of salary.

I said Horcoffs return per dollar was better than crosby's that season.

You guys have been mocking me cause i said
14.72 points per is better than 11.84 points per.
You are mocking me cause I said 14.72 is greater than 11.84.
You are mocking ME cause you guys think 11.84 is greater than 14.72.



Horcoff is better than Crosby!
Come on!

Me I am about filling game situations with as low a cap hit as possible.

If we can replace Horcoff's
Face off
Comp faced
Zone start
PK
for less cap dollars.
Then bye.


Last edited by Guerzy: 04-30-2013 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Leave the insults out of it.
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Old
04-30-2013, 09:59 AM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikyerbouti View Post
Man, I'm trying to keep an open mind about MacT but that interview was not professional. A couple of times he seemed like he hadn't even thought of something and was just spit-balling. Way too flippant.


He seemed to imply that he was going to let the scouting staff draft BPA, which was nice to hear. Also great to hear an awareness to analytic models and the need for bigger, aggressive players.


He didn't seem to think our desperate need for NHL d-men was a concern, or less of a concern than goaltending.. wtf? He also appeared to value defensive face-offs, because 1 of 40 times results in a goal, but didn't seem to think those face-off odds are important in the O zone ..lol. And, gagner to wing? ugh
He's not wrong in that line of thinking though. If we want immediate fix, yeah, the D corp might need help but long run, not a chance compared to our Center and Goaltending depth...we barely have any.

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:21 AM
  #238
Jimmi McJenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheikyerbouti View Post
Man, I'm trying to keep an open mind about MacT but that interview was not professional. A couple of times he seemed like he hadn't even thought of something and was just spit-balling. Way too flippant.
Yeah, totally. What he should have done is laid out the entire offseason plan step by step, detail by detail so we could know exactly what they're planning to do, and I'm sure if he did that for us, it would in NO WAY hamper his ability to excute that plan.


Quote:
He seemed to imply that he was going to let the scouting staff draft BPA, which was nice to hear. Also great to hear an awareness to analytic models and the need for bigger, aggressive players.
This last sentence is funny to me, given the nature of the "stats" guys.

Quote:
He didn't seem to think our desperate need for NHL d-men was a concern, or less of a concern than goaltending.. wtf? He also appeared to value defensive face-offs, because 1 of 40 times results in a goal, but didn't seem to think those face-off odds are important in the O zone ..lol. And, gagner to wing? ugh
He talked about improving the defense, getting guys who can move the puck faster and skate better. Again, probably not the best tack to tell everyone "hey, we're desperate for defensemen".

And Gagner to the wing was more of an option to explore and less a "thing that's going to happen now"

As others said, re-goaltending, the organizational depth at that position isn't there.

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:47 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
They are results for the year.
Results!
WHAT THEY DID!
NOT YOUR OPINION!
RESULTS


Save % is the only individual goalie measure.
Prove to me Price is better.




As for the crosby Horcoff thing.
did you even read the conversation?

Cause I did not say Horcoff was better than Crosby.
in 08-09
Crosby had 103 points made 8.7M
Horcoff had 53 points made 3.6M

I said based on a cap world:
Crosby 103points/8.7M
11.84 points/Million of salary

Horcoff 53Points/3.6M
14.72points/million of salary.

I said Horcoffs return per dollar was better than crosby's that season.

You guys have been mocking me cause i said
14.72 points per is better than 11.84 points per.
You are mocking me cause I said 14.72 is greater than 11.84.
You are mocking ME cause you guys think 11.84 is greater than 14.72.



Horcoff is better than Crosby!
Come on!

Me I am about filling game situations with as low a cap hit as possible.

If we can replace Horcoff's
Face off
Comp faced
Zone start
PK
for less cap dollars.
Then bye.

I think people are blasting you because of the unknown, unknowns in your game.


Last edited by Guerzy: 04-30-2013 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Edited quoted post.
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Old
04-30-2013, 10:49 AM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Pretty satisfied with what MacT had to say. I can't believe there is anyone on the boards who thinks he isn't going to be way better than Tamby. He spoke for twenty five minutes (at least in the clip that's up on the Oilers site) and was forthright, engaged, knowledgeable and clear in his responses. Tamby was never any of that.

The stuff I didn't like much was all the talk about "the story of Edmonton" that the team tries to sell. Way too much emphasis placed on that - ffs he even used the phrase "Alberta advantage". Just field a competitive roster please Craig and save the OilChange monologues for those with the will to watch the show.

Damning indictment of the roster Tamby assembled to support all his first overall picks.

"In today's NHL you really have to be a threat to score at some point. Even marginally. And we had a lot of guys that really, the best they were going to be at any given game was to be a non-factor."

Wow. "Even marginally ...." Yeah he's looking at you Belanger. And you Petrell. And you Brown. And you Smyth. Maybe Petrell or Eager would throw up the odd big game for you, but the rest of those guys seriously never looked like a threat to score all year. Props to MacT for saying it like it is. Smithson managed to get two goals I think, but he never really looked dangerous either. He did look great on draws and I think I saw him throw a few hits. So there's that in his favor.

On Dubnyk

"To be a top level goaltender he's got to play better".

Yup. MacT spoke of getting a number two, three or four goaltender in a way that made it clear that Dubnyk will be the guy again next season. MacT seems to think Dubnyk can make the progress necessary. For me that's a bit hard to believe, but he's got a contract for next year anyway so having spent five seasons on his development we may as well give him one more year.

On Gagner

"Sam had an unbelievable year".

Huh. Not "good". Not "great". "Unbelievable". And just yesterday I was seeing posts calling this player toxic, disastrous and in general deficient across most facets of the game.

"But Sam has really developed into a leader here by all regard. From the discussions I've had with our group in there he's a guy that's really developed into the type of character that we want. And that's going to be important when I'm making the decisions."

The way MacT made the statement above should leave no doubt that its unanimous among Oiler management that Gagner is an important part of the plan for this roster going forward. They aren't going to flip him for some over-rated PK wizard or a fast skating Coke machine. He may get dealt but inquiring teams are going to have to offer a lot to get Gagner. This kid is heart and soul and I feel sorry for fans who can't recognize that.

Hemsky on the other hand has probably played his last game as an Oiler. MacT was very classy in what he said about Hemsky, but I think the writing is on the wall there.

Pretty good interview all in all. So far MacT has me on his side.
Well said

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:58 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
During the regular season you bet they were in both of your "examples". The Kings sucked during the regular season last year. Probably why they fired their coach. I happen to know this because I followed their team on a regular basis.

The Coyotes were pretty good last year. Why they even made it to the third round of the playoffs.

Keep digging.
Yeah and the canadiens made the third round in 2010 because of halak, but they were still number 8 in the conference. Were they the second best team in the conference that underachieved? Everyone knows the kings massively underachieved last year before the playoffs. They were leagues better under Sutter than his predecessor.

You'll have a tough time convincing me the oilers and flames are a better team than the hurricanes.

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Old
04-30-2013, 11:06 AM
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
They are results for the year.
Results!
WHAT THEY DID!
NOT YOUR OPINION!
RESULTS


Save % is the only individual goalie measure.
Prove to me Price is better.




As for the crosby Horcoff thing.
did you even read the conversation?

Cause I did not say Horcoff was better than Crosby.
in 08-09
Crosby had 103 points made 8.7M
Horcoff had 53 points made 3.6M

I said based on a cap world:
Crosby 103points/8.7M
11.84 points/Million of salary

Horcoff 53Points/3.6M
14.72points/million of salary.

I said Horcoffs return per dollar was better than crosby's that season.

You guys have been mocking me cause i said
14.72 points per is better than 11.84 points per.
You are mocking me cause I said 14.72 is greater than 11.84.
You are mocking ME cause you guys think 11.84 is greater than 14.72.



Horcoff is better than Crosby!
Come on!

Me I am about filling game situations with as low a cap hit as possible.

If we can replace Horcoff's
Face off
Comp faced
Zone start
PK
for less cap dollars.
Then bye.
Do you think Crosby has a more beneficial effect on his linemates than Horcoff does per million?

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Old
04-30-2013, 11:42 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by OilerTyler View Post
Smyth is the worse player and should be much easier to replace.

I'd only buyout Horcoff if we have a better player to replace him or we really need the cap space.
On a related note, someone calling in to Struds last night said that we would be hard-pressed to find a better replacement for Smyth. How could anyone think that we can't find a better player for our 12th/13th forward? People are stuck in this fantasy world with some of our players.

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Old
04-30-2013, 11:44 AM
  #244
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I'm still surprised that Kevin Lowe didn't walk into the room with his six stanley cup rings on his fingers and just stare menacingly at the media for daring to even question his administrative brilliance.

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Old
04-30-2013, 11:48 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
I'm still surprised that Kevin Lowe didn't walk into the room with his six stanley cup rings on his fingers and just stare menacingly at the media for daring to even question his administrative brilliance.
Totally, then slap a "2nd rate fan" for stylez points.

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Old
04-30-2013, 12:00 PM
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerbear View Post
As for the crosby Horcoff thing.
did you even read the conversation?

Cause I did not say Horcoff was better than Crosby.
in 08-09
Crosby had 103 points made 8.7M
Horcoff had 53 points made 3.6M

I said based on a cap world:
Crosby 103points/8.7M
11.84 points/Million of salary

Horcoff 53Points/3.6M
14.72points/million of salary.

I said Horcoffs return per dollar was better than crosby's that season.

You guys have been mocking me cause i said
14.72 points per is better than 11.84 points per.
You are mocking me cause I said 14.72 is greater than 11.84.
You are mocking ME cause you guys think 11.84 is greater than 14.72.



Horcoff is better than Crosby!
Come on!
Honest question...would you rather have Crosby at 11.84 point per or Horcoff at 14.72 point per?

cause I'm not sure what your point is/was

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Old
04-30-2013, 12:34 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by The Last Dynasty View Post
Honest question...would you rather have Crosby at 11.84 point per or Horcoff at 14.72 point per?

cause I'm not sure what your point is/was
That once upon a time Horcoff was a better bang for your buck than Crosby. Which may have been true at one point but as you point out in general it doesnt hold water. Likewise the position that Dubnyk is a better goalie than Price because he has a better save % just means somebody is treating a stat as a sacred cow when it doesnt deserve to be. Just because it's the only stat that tells us about a goalie's performance doesnt mean it's a good one, and I'd dispute that it's not affected by the team the goalie is playing on.

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Old
04-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by harpoon View Post
Pretty satisfied with what MacT had to say. I can't believe there is anyone on the boards who thinks he isn't going to be way better than Tamby. He spoke for twenty five minutes (at least in the clip that's up on the Oilers site) and was forthright, engaged, knowledgeable and clear in his responses. Tamby was never any of that.

The stuff I didn't like much was all the talk about "the story of Edmonton" that the team tries to sell. Way too much emphasis placed on that - ffs he even used the phrase "Alberta advantage". Just field a competitive roster please Craig and save the OilChange monologues for those with the will to watch the show.

Damning indictment of the roster Tamby assembled to support all his first overall picks.

"In today's NHL you really have to be a threat to score at some point. Even marginally. And we had a lot of guys that really, the best they were going to be at any given game was to be a non-factor."

Wow. "Even marginally ...." Yeah he's looking at you Belanger. And you Petrell. And you Brown. And you Smyth. Maybe Petrell or Eager would throw up the odd big game for you, but the rest of those guys seriously never looked like a threat to score all year. Props to MacT for saying it like it is. Smithson managed to get two goals I think, but he never really looked dangerous either. He did look great on draws and I think I saw him throw a few hits. So there's that in his favor.

On Dubnyk

"To be a top level goaltender he's got to play better".

Yup. MacT spoke of getting a number two, three or four goaltender in a way that made it clear that Dubnyk will be the guy again next season. MacT seems to think Dubnyk can make the progress necessary. For me that's a bit hard to believe, but he's got a contract for next year anyway so having spent five seasons on his development we may as well give him one more year.

On Gagner

"Sam had an unbelievable year".

Huh. Not "good". Not "great". "Unbelievable". And just yesterday I was seeing posts calling this player toxic, disastrous and in general deficient across most facets of the game.

"But Sam has really developed into a leader here by all regard. From the discussions I've had with our group in there he's a guy that's really developed into the type of character that we want. And that's going to be important when I'm making the decisions."

The way MacT made the statement above should leave no doubt that its unanimous among Oiler management that Gagner is an important part of the plan for this roster going forward. They aren't going to flip him for some over-rated PK wizard or a fast skating Coke machine. He may get dealt but inquiring teams are going to have to offer a lot to get Gagner. This kid is heart and soul and I feel sorry for fans who can't recognize that.

Hemsky on the other hand has probably played his last game as an Oiler. MacT was very classy in what he said about Hemsky, but I think the writing is on the wall there.

Pretty good interview all in all. So far MacT has me on his side.
I know we don't see eye to eye on somethings, but I agree with everything you've posted.

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Old
04-30-2013, 12:43 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by gqmixmaster View Post
Do you think Crosby has a more beneficial effect on his linemates than Horcoff does per million?
08-09
@ Even
Crosby played with 10 forwards with viable even minutes
GF/GA = goal Differential %
great than 50% is a plus player.
your asking if crosby made teamates better in both zones.
Malkin Yes
talbot Yes
Guerin yes
Cooke Yes
Dupuis No
Satan No
Kunitz No
Fedotenko No
Kennedy No
Sykora No
6 out of 10 the Goal differential was better without him.

Horcoff played with 7 forwards with viable minutes.
Hemsky Yes
Penner yes
Kotalik Yes
Reddox Yes
Moreau Yes
Cole No
Nilsson No
5 out of 7 the Goal differential was better with him.

You could not be reffering to just offensively
cause GF and GA are what matter in a game


PP
1G more every 8 games
Pk
2 goals less for the season

That was 08-09.

Cannot really say but i would hope so!

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Old
04-30-2013, 12:51 PM
  #250
Beerfish
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Now I've seen everything. People actually having the gaul to even compare Horcoff or anything that he does to Crosby. Someone saying he was better value for the buck. My god.

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