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Ullstrom vs Nino vs Ders vs JJ

View Poll Results: In this scenario, who should be our 3rd line LW?
David Ullstrom 23 37.70%
Nino Niederreiter 19 31.15%
Anders Lee 9 14.75%
Jesse Joensuu 10 16.39%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
04-30-2013, 10:49 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by SLAPSHOT723 View Post
Bernier? Yes, he's overrated.

Yandle? No, he's not overrated. Maybe Nino and a 1st is too much, but I would pay a solid price for him. Especially if Streit doesn't re-sign.

Yandle-Hamonic
Hickey-Visnovsky
Strait-MacDonald
Carkner

I like that.
i would gladly give nino and a first for yandle, replace streit with a quality two way dman and and this team is in a significantly higher spot

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04-30-2013, 10:53 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
i would gladly give nino and a first for yandle, replace streit with a quality two way dman and and this team is in a significantly higher spot
Let's put it this way: If this trade were to actually happen, I would be fine with it. I like Nino, but he's replaceable with other prospects and veteran players, it just would have been nice to have a homegrown player like that. Our 1st will be a mid-1st, that can be given up for a young #1 defenseman in Yandle.

However, they have to try and get him for less than that first. I would try to give up Nino and maybe another prospect before the 1st.

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04-30-2013, 10:56 AM
  #28
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I love Nielsen, I love what the line has done for the last month and a half. But he can't be our #2 center anymore. not if we want to take the next step.

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04-30-2013, 12:45 PM
  #29
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I almost forgot how big of an anti-Nino guy you were.

Regardless of what's happened in the past, IMO the fact that he was Bridgeport's leading goal-scorer while also being their youngest player by almost a full year(at least up until the Juniors came along) should buy the kid a slight break.
Who's anti-Nino? I want the kid to succeed, but you have to admit, the kid sucked out there when we brought him out of juniors way too soon. That's not because he played with Reasoner....he sucked on the third line, too.

Wanna fix a car, don't blame the lawnmower for the problem. Nino has to get better, not his linemates.

TAVARES you fix the linemates. They're scoring more because of him. Nino didn't help Reasoner score more. In fact Nino's bad passing and positioning hurt his linemates.

If you brought him up this year, he's probably got dozens of shifts on the second line and some success {still not ready IMHO}. But Nino's first year, he was the worst player on that line, and the team. He was just a kid DP'd into the lineup by a bonus clause, cap hit chasing GM.

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04-30-2013, 12:48 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WangMustGo View Post
If the veteran presence is Boyes we may as well not have any veteran presence.
Oh, no doubt. Boyes is worthless. But, this team looks ready to take the next step here... do we really want to plug 3 rookies with no NHL experience into important roles and expect to make the playoffs with that in an 82 game season?

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04-30-2013, 01:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Isles Junkie View Post
I love Nielsen, I love what the line has done for the last month and a half. But he can't be our #2 center anymore. not if we want to take the next step.
I think I am on the same page. For me the bottom 9 guys would look something like

Bailey - Nelson - Okposo
Grabner - Nielsen - Ullstrom
Martin - Czikas - MacDonald

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04-30-2013, 01:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Who's anti-Nino? I want the kid to succeed, but you have to admit, the kid sucked out there when we brought him out of juniors way too soon. That's not because he played with Reasoner....he sucked on the third line, too.

Wanna fix a car, don't blame the lawnmower for the problem. Nino has to get better, not his linemates.

TAVARES you fix the linemates. They're scoring more because of him. Nino didn't help Reasoner score more. In fact Nino's bad passing and positioning hurt his linemates.

If you brought him up this year, he's probably got dozens of shifts on the second line and some success {still not ready IMHO}. But Nino's first year, he was the worst player on that line, and the team. He was just a kid DP'd into the lineup by a bonus clause, cap hit chasing GM.
I don't know how you could call him the worst player on the team. He was a kid who went from playing as a top-line/skill forward to being thrown into a checking line role in the NHL as a 19 year old. Picture Moulson playing 4th line minutes. It would have been an absolute disaster and I'm sure he would have been torn to pieces on these boards, yet he's obviously far from being our worst player.

Nino is not Tavares. Tavares is talented enough to carry the play of grinders. Nino(at least 19 year old-Nino) isn't/wasn't. That doesn't mean he couldn't have been an effective scorer for us had he played in some type of scoring role. Unfortunately he didn't get that chance, and when you add in a defensive game not quite ready for NHL duty as well as a new, unfamiliar role, it makes sense that we would get the results we did in 2011-12.

That said, trying to look at the glass half-full, Nino showed me a lot in the way he bounced back this year and produced at the AHL level. A kid that young having a year as poor as he had could have easily struggled with confidence going into 2012-13, but instead he seemed intent on fighting his way back to the NHL. IMO you have to admire that from a 20 year old kid who could have easily said "The Islanders roster sucks. It doesn't matter what I do here in BP, I'll have a spot waiting for me on Long Island."

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04-30-2013, 02:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Isles Junkie View Post
I love Nielsen, I love what the line has done for the last month and a half. But he can't be our #2 center anymore. not if we want to take the next step.
Nelson will be the #2 soon enough. Don't worry - he gets it. The answer is right there from within. The big question is 'when', but he really seems to be on the fast track.

Nielsen is still part of the equation for a regularly successful Islander club, even in the long run.

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04-30-2013, 02:11 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Oh, no doubt. Boyes is worthless. But, this team looks ready to take the next step here... do we really want to plug 3 rookies with no NHL experience into important roles and expect to make the playoffs with that in an 82 game season?
I don't necessarily think it matters, as long as all of them are not only NHL ready, but ready to contribute significantly. They all fit needs.

Strome fits the need of finding a RH shot with skill to play with Tavares. Someone who can be effective with the puck on his stick and someone who can open up some space for our franchise player.

Nelson fits the need of A) adding another top-9 center threat and B) adding a center with some size. He could end up being the key to a 3rd scoring line next season.

As far as Nino/Lee/Ullstrom/Joensuu, I suppose we could always go the UFA route and bring in a guy like Torres for that spot if you really don't want to run 3 rookies out there. That said I'd like to see what Nino could do with Nelson and Grabner, or even Lee for that matter. The more in-house replacements at forward means the more money we'll have to spend on the defense/goaltending.

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04-30-2013, 02:19 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I don't know how you could call him the worst player on the team. He was a kid who went from playing as a top-line/skill forward to being thrown into a checking line role in the NHL as a 19 year old. Picture Moulson playing 4th line minutes. It would have been an absolute disaster and I'm sure he would have been torn to pieces on these boards, yet he's obviously far from being our worst player.

Nino is not Tavares. Tavares is talented enough to carry the play of grinders. Nino(at least 19 year old-Nino) isn't/wasn't. That doesn't mean he couldn't have been an effective scorer for us had he played in some type of scoring role. Unfortunately he didn't get that chance, and when you add in a defensive game not quite ready for NHL duty as well as a new, unfamiliar role, it makes sense that we would get the results we did in 2011-12.

That said, trying to look at the glass half-full, Nino showed me a lot in the way he bounced back this year and produced at the AHL level. A kid that young having a year as poor as he had could have easily struggled with confidence going into 2012-13, but instead he seemed intent on fighting his way back to the NHL. IMO you have to admire that from a 20 year old kid who could have easily said "The Islanders roster sucks. It doesn't matter what I do here in BP, I'll have a spot waiting for me on Long Island."
If you have any of the old games recorded {for personal view, with no intent on rebroadcast, retransmission or any other express purpose without the permission of the NYI or FSNY/MSG} watch him play. Watch his skating. Watch him make and receive passes. Watch his decisions.

If he plays that way on line 1 for 20:00 or 4:32, he's still the least talented player. Does Reasoner make him better? No. Maybe Tavares would....but then you have to remove someone who is as close to belonging on line 1 off as we have and putting a kid in for Tavares to babysit, removing WINNING from our equation and turning this into a developmental league where everyone is, essentially, there to make Nino better.

Even then, his skating needed work and his stickhandling needed work and his positioning needed work and his hitting needed work and his backchecking needed implanting.

He was the worst player on the team because he didn't belong in the NHL.

Reasoner may be bad, but he plays an NHL game.....just not a very good one.

How did Nino fare when we moved him to line 3 for a bat? Any better? No, he was demoted back to line 4.

He just was not ready. I'm not attacking Nino....I'll attack him on what he and his agent did, but this was a kid RUSHED and FORCED to play where he didn't belong and it hurt his development. Power forwards take longer and here's Snow doing what Milbury did to DP, what Snow did to Bailey and what will surely happen to more kids with potential in the future. Poor kid. Poor fans. Bad management decisions.

He had nine games and I recall only the pro-KIDDY posters saying he looked good. I recall being relieved when time went on we'd send him down and maybe it would be a bonus now that he knew the NHL a little to work in Portland a little wiser....only no Portland. We effed that one up!

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04-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Oh, no doubt. Boyes is worthless. But, this team looks ready to take the next step here... do we really want to plug 3 rookies with no NHL experience into important roles and expect to make the playoffs with that in an 82 game season?
Coach Michael Jackson would put them all in. He loves the children. You're crazy! You're crazy!

Just dress the best guys you can, even if it means Reasoner or Boyes. The goal is to win, and winning means shooting, passing, checking, backchecking, DEFENSE, neutral zone and blocking shots. I'd list clearing the crease but Brandan Witt apparently took that from NYI when he left....must've left it in his suitcase and forgot.

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04-30-2013, 02:42 PM
  #37
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I don't necessarily think it matters, as long as all of them are not only NHL ready, but ready to contribute significantly. They all fit needs.
Here's the problem... these aren't video game players. Rookies tend to be inconsistent and break down over a long season. Look at the rookies in the league that started hot this year and tapered off, sometimes sharply, over the course of the season.

That can be weathered if you have 1 rookie... maybe 2. You got 3 in your top 9? That can collapse quickly and messily very easily.

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04-30-2013, 06:31 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
If you have any of the old games recorded {for personal view, with no intent on rebroadcast, retransmission or any other express purpose without the permission of the NYI or FSNY/MSG} watch him play. Watch his skating. Watch him make and receive passes. Watch his decisions.

If he plays that way on line 1 for 20:00 or 4:32, he's still the least talented player. Does Reasoner make him better? No. Maybe Tavares would....but then you have to remove someone who is as close to belonging on line 1 off as we have and putting a kid in for Tavares to babysit, removing WINNING from our equation and turning this into a developmental league where everyone is, essentially, there to make Nino better.

Even then, his skating needed work and his stickhandling needed work and his positioning needed work and his hitting needed work and his backchecking needed implanting.

He was the worst player on the team because he didn't belong in the NHL.

Reasoner may be bad, but he plays an NHL game.....just not a very good one.

How did Nino fare when we moved him to line 3 for a bat? Any better? No, he was demoted back to line 4.

He just was not ready. I'm not attacking Nino....I'll attack him on what he and his agent did, but this was a kid RUSHED and FORCED to play where he didn't belong and it hurt his development. Power forwards take longer and here's Snow doing what Milbury did to DP, what Snow did to Bailey and what will surely happen to more kids with potential in the future. Poor kid. Poor fans. Bad management decisions.

He had nine games and I recall only the pro-KIDDY posters saying he looked good. I recall being relieved when time went on we'd send him down and maybe it would be a bonus now that he knew the NHL a little to work in Portland a little wiser....only no Portland. We effed that one up!
I'm not going to say Nino looked good by any means, but I think a lot of him looking out of place was from not only having to adjust to a bigger, faster, superior hockey league, but from having to play a completely different game than what he was used to. He looked bad. It wasn't a surprise though. Like I said, Moulson would have looked just as bad on that line. Doesn't mean he's a bad hockey player.

Although it was too little too late, I specifically remember Nino elevating his game around the last month of the season. Can't quite remember if it was as a 3rd or 4th liner, but he was absolutely more noticeable on the ice. He was skating, getting involved physically and was even generating scoring chances. I'm assuming he finally started adapting to his role and/or started to develop confidence in being able to play in that role.

As far as the posters who were vouching for Nino at the time, they were probably doing so under the assumption that he would eventually move into the top-6 or even 9. I don't think one member of the promote-Nino crowd would have wanted him here if they knew he'd be buried on the 4th line all year.

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04-30-2013, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
Here's the problem... these aren't video game players. Rookies tend to be inconsistent and break down over a long season. Look at the rookies in the league that started hot this year and tapered off, sometimes sharply, over the course of the season.

That can be weathered if you have 1 rookie... maybe 2. You got 3 in your top 9? That can collapse quickly and messily very easily.
That's true, but all of Strome, Nelson, Nino, Lee, Ullstrom will have had more development than most of the top prospects that made the jump this year. Guys like Huberdeau, Yakupov, Galchenyuk. Add to that none of these guys played with anyone near Tavares' level, which Strome would in this scenario. The only one that compares is Conacher who put up 9 goals/24 points in 35 games playing with Stamkos. But while Conacher is a couple of years older than Strome will be next season, he wasn't half the prospect that Strome is/will be.

As far as the other guys, the only one who hasn't played a full pro season is Lee. Nelson has a full AHL year under his belt. Nino has a full NHL and AHL season. Ullstrom has multiple AHL seasons. JJ as well. These aren't guys who are fresh out of the draft. They have been developed(even Nino) at the pro level and could very realistically make the jump ASAP.

The depth also helps. Having guys like Sundstrom at center and Kabanov, Persson, one of Nino, Ullstrom, Lee. All of the trade chips that having a stacked system gives you. We'll have plenty of backup options.

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04-30-2013, 08:40 PM
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As far as the other guys, the only one who hasn't played a full pro season is Lee.
You make a good point about the AHL experience. Still, I'd think the team would be better served finding a good vet to go into the top 6 rather than leaning so hard on kids.

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04-30-2013, 10:00 PM
  #41
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Snow should be fired on the spot for a deal like that. And I'm not even the worlds biggest nino fan.

It has reached the point where it is now hilarious how overrated Bernier and Yandle are on this board.
I really think we trade the # 1 pick this year and believe Garth will add one of either Bernier, Yandle or Bobby Ryan to upgrade the team. Hopefully two of them

LA doesn't have a #1 pick and Bernier will be moved. Bernier for the #1 + Poulin?
Nino & Nielsen for Bobby Ryan?? We'll see

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05-01-2013, 01:32 AM
  #42
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I'm not going to say Nino looked good by any means, but I think a lot of him looking out of place was from not only having to adjust to a bigger, faster, superior hockey league, but from having to play a completely different game than what he was used to. He looked bad. It wasn't a surprise though. Like I said, Moulson would have looked just as bad on that line. Doesn't mean he's a bad hockey player.

Although it was too little too late, I specifically remember Nino elevating his game around the last month of the season. Can't quite remember if it was as a 3rd or 4th liner, but he was absolutely more noticeable on the ice. He was skating, getting involved physically and was even generating scoring chances. I'm assuming he finally started adapting to his role and/or started to develop confidence in being able to play in that role.

As far as the posters who were vouching for Nino at the time, they were probably doing so under the assumption that he would eventually move into the top-6 or even 9. I don't think one member of the promote-Nino crowd would have wanted him here if they knew he'd be buried on the 4th line all year.
I'm glad you saw the awful play as I did. You acknowledge his role as a scoring top line power forward was not gonna happen on line 4. But.....

The kid was never going to be a power forward until he could CHECK. Hit. Block. punish. On line 4 he wasn't getting top assignments. He was getting the other team's 2nd line AT BEST. He should have had an easier time learning the physical game. He should have had an easier time breaking into the o-zone. He should have learned defense.

A sum of things to improve on to become a top line player.....and when he graduated to a higher line, he could THEN learn and hone his offensive game.

But I could care less about his offense watching him. If Nino scored ten or twety goals skating and playing like he was, he's be a big Brad Boyes without the passing game.

Reports from BST fans had Nino scoring more but with several holes in his game.

He fills the holes, he gets to play with better talent.....or be Brad Boyes. A bigger Brad Boyes.

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05-01-2013, 12:46 PM
  #43
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I really think we trade the # 1 pick this year and believe Garth will add one of either Bernier, Yandle or Bobby Ryan to upgrade the team. Hopefully two of them

LA doesn't have a #1 pick and Bernier will be moved. Bernier for the #1 + Poulin?
Nino & Nielsen for Bobby Ryan?? We'll see
I dont think LA will want Poulin. He doesnt have much trade value at this point in his career. I would seriously consider our first for Bernier, esp if we pull a miracle and advance.

I wouldnt move Nino and Nielsen for Bobby Ryan. Im fine with moving Nino, personally, they way he played last year and his attitude this year, is enough for me to move him. IMO, 4th line or not, Nino should have showed some signs of what he could become. He was brutal. Maybe he will get better...but if someone is going to pay a decent value for him, then hes as good as gone. I have no time for a rookie who was given an opportunity, sucked, and then demands a trade. No thanks.


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05-01-2013, 12:56 PM
  #44
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I think I am on the same page. For me the bottom 9 guys would look something like

Bailey - Nelson - Okposo
Grabner - Nielsen - Ullstrom
Martin - Czikas - MacDonald

I think those 9 work.. I would try and trade for Lucic if reports are true that he will be available in the off season. I'd offer our 1st , Nino +? for him. I know its a pipe dream though.

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