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What The Hell Happened To...The Colorado Avalanche?

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Old
05-01-2013, 02:32 PM
  #76
sailorjerry96
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they should have let O'Reilly walk and had #1 pick and #6 pick

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05-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by sailorjerry96 View Post
they should have let O'Reilly walk and had #1 pick and #6 pick
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo

b) Can't speak for others, but I'll take ROR over the #6 pick.

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05-01-2013, 02:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo

b) Can't speak for others, but I'll take ROR over the #6 pick.
Agreed on all counts.

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05-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Holyhell View Post
Winner.

In all reality, it was a bunch of things happening at once.

Their entire core was becoming old and washed up. From the 1st line to 4th and D and G, all were getting older.

They didn't have the prospects or players to replace those top line guys so they've been filling the voids that all of those greats have left with 2nd liners at best for nearly a decade now.

Granato and Sacco have also taken up too much of our time behind the bench.

It's time for a turn around next year or the year after. The pieces are falling into place, those 1st line players are actually first line talents and the defense is getting nicely rounded out.

EDIT: Also, I think they've been far too timid to let their young guys play, even recently. Usually signing veteran presences that can't keep up in the new NHL. The amount of time it took Barrie to get full time minutes was embarrassing while Zanon was out there fumbling the puck like he had flubber tape on his stick.
Some of these do play into it quite a bit. I remember a few years ago where they had an almost miracle run lead by Statsny that almost went from dead last to knocking the Flames out of a playoff spot. I thought for sure that they are a team on the rise. But so far there has been zero to no results since then.

The wierd thing is that their entire organization has this wierd obsession (and also a good part of their fan-base) of getting as many quality centers as possible, at the detriment of basically every other position. Now they are still very strong down the middle, but have to call players like Jones a top winger. Their D is especially neglected, with the only significant thing done to bolster in the last few years being the Johnson trade, which turned out to be somewhat of a flop (at least not what they hoped). Not really sure where they go from here except a serious firesale in the off-season to rebuild from scratch.

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05-01-2013, 02:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo

b) Can't speak for others, but I'll take ROR over the #6 pick.
they were still at the bottom of the league with Iginla, and J-Bo. They would have ended up trading Iginla anyways, maybe would have kept J-Bo. To me o'reilly is overpaid for what he brings to the table

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05-01-2013, 02:53 PM
  #81
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So you're giving Sherman credit for getting fleeced by St Louis? I'd be pretty pissed if my team traded 2 good players like shattenkirk and Stewart for " no.1 dman" EJ
yea that's called fleeced I have a friend who's an avs fan and he was obviously disappointed stewart was a breaking out power forward and shattenkirk was breaking out offensive dman, theres no logic they must of thought their team was actually supposed to do something that year and then decided to rebuild with worse prospects I guess. They should get the most credit for the team st. Louis is today. And I just read they could of got sobotka instead of mcclement.

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05-01-2013, 03:20 PM
  #82
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yea that's called fleeced I have a friend who's an avs fan and he was obviously disappointed stewart was a breaking out power forward and shattenkirk was breaking out offensive dman, theres no logic they must of thought their team was actually supposed to do something that year and then decided to rebuild with worse prospects I guess. They should get the most credit for the team st. Louis is today. And I just read they could of got sobotka instead of mcclement.
there's plenty of logic to it, they made the playoffs the year before and the team had one of the youngest most talented core's in the league it wasn't erroneous to think that they might make the playoffs again.

after contract dispute with anderson went south and they traded for elliot was that season thrown in the dumpster, the main problem colorado had at that point was defense and they thought they were addressing that need with EJ.

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05-01-2013, 03:24 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by AvalancheRy View Post
I'm still not convinced we are as horrible as our record says, but I may just have my head in the sand. There are three big things that will be different next year guaranteed: a new coach, Seth Jones, and no offseason distraction (O'Reilly). These things will all have a tangible impact on this team.

Avs need a coach from outside the organization. I want Ruff. It's pretty clear that we need a new culture starting from the top down. A coach from outside would be ideal.

So yes, the Avs have some very significant flaws that need changing. But they did take some big steps forward this year too, most notably being Duchene's rise to an impact player. And I really think Seth Jones will be perfect here. He'll be expect to be THE guy here but he won't have the pressure of being that guy right away. Johnson is good enough to cover for him for a bit -- give him some slack.
Disagree on ROR not being a distraction going forward. He'll be a RFA who is owed a $7M qualifying offer going into the summer of 2014. It wouldn't surprise me if he's traded before next season is over.

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05-01-2013, 03:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Disagree on ROR not being a distraction going forward. He'll be a RFA who is owed a $7M qualifying offer going into the summer of 2014. It wouldn't surprise me if he's traded before next season is over.
Splitting hairs here, but his QO next summer will be for $6.5M.

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05-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by skip2mybordeleau View Post
there's plenty of logic to it, they made the playoffs the year before and the team had one of the youngest most talented core's in the league it wasn't erroneous to think that they might make the playoffs again.

after contract dispute with anderson went south and they traded for elliot was that season thrown in the dumpster, the main problem colorado had at that point was defense and they thought they were addressing that need with EJ.
Well, trading for a #1 draft pick that was clearly fading (not only by his play in St. L, but also the fact that #1 draft picks usually aren't traded by the drafting team, unless expectations have not been met), while giving up massive future assets (Stewart, Shattenkirk, Rattie), was certainly not a smart decision in hind sight. I like how some Col fans still try to spin that trade as getting a real "gem", and how EJ's numbers and regression in his stats don't really matter at all. It's pretty delusional given any 3rd party perspective.

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05-01-2013, 03:31 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo
They wouldn't have had O'Reily. He either would have been waived and then picked up by Columbus/Florida, or he would have been asked to stay in Europe to avoid being waived.

EDIT: Besides, Colorado had O'Reily, and that sure didn't help them from finishing last in the West!

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05-01-2013, 03:33 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, trading for a #1 draft pick that was clearly fading (not only by his play in St. L, but also the fact that #1 draft picks usually aren't traded by the drafting team, unless expectations have not been met), while giving up massive future assets (Stewart, Shattenkirk, Rattie), was certainly not a smart decision in hind sight. I like how some Col fans still try to spin that trade as getting a real "gem", and how EJ's numbers and regression in his stats don't really matter at all. It's pretty delusional given any 3rd party perspective.
There's no point of mentioning Rattie if you're not going to mention Siemens. Siemens was the higher pick so the more coveted asset in the trade(higher draft selection). McClement... you can ignore him if you want, he was let go for nothing anyways despite being a big help on the PK.

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05-01-2013, 03:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
They wouldn't have had O'Reily. He either would have been waived and then picked up by Columbus/Florida, or he would have been asked to stay in Europe to avoid being waived.
Jay Feaster was pretty sure this wasn't the case and stated as much after the offer sheet was matched. We'll have to take the word of an NHL General Manager, as crazy as he may be, over other speculation. Bill Daly's alleged quotes that day were never surfaced as truth.

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05-01-2013, 03:35 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
EDIT: Besides, Colorado had O'Reily, and that sure didn't help them from finishing last in the West!
Sorry, what does this have to do with my post?

To be clear, your EDIT was in reply to this post of mine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoPadStack
a) No guarantee the Flames suck like that with O'Reilly and then likely not trading Iginla/J-Bo

b) Can't speak for others, but I'll take ROR over the #6 pick.
...so what does your edit have to do with what I wrote?

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05-01-2013, 03:39 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
Jay Feaster was pretty sure this wasn't the case and stated as much after the offer sheet was matched. We'll have to take the word of an NHL General Manager, as crazy as he may be, over other speculation. Bill Daly's alleged quotes that day were never surfaced as truth.
The rule is written such that if O'Reily had returned to the team that had his rights (Colorado), he didn't have to be waived.

If he signs with a team as a FA (as he did with Calgary), he has to clear waivers (example: Wellwood a few years back with the Sharks, Anti Miettinen with the Jets).

And of course Feaster is going to say that. "LOL, yea, I had no idea what I was doing, we could have lost our lotto pick AND the player we were trying to get. My B!"

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05-01-2013, 03:40 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by TwoPadStack View Post
There's no point of mentioning Rattie if you're not going to mention Siemens. Siemens was the higher pick so the more coveted asset in the trade(higher draft selection). McClement... you can ignore him if you want, he was let go for nothing anyways despite being a big help on the PK.
I don't think Siemens and Rattie, if picked today, would be draft in this order. And letting McClement go for nothing is just another great example of terrible asset management by the Col organization. And if they really could have had someone of Sobotka's quality (who also would have had more cost controlled years), that just is a nail in the coffin for the entire management team. They simply have dropped the ball over this entire 3-4 year period, with very little (except perhaps Varlamov) redeeming quality in it.

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05-01-2013, 03:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, trading for a #1 draft pick that was clearly fading (not only by his play in St. L, but also the fact that #1 draft picks usually aren't traded by the drafting team, unless expectations have not been met), while giving up massive future assets (Stewart, Shattenkirk, Rattie), was certainly not a smart decision in hind sight. I like how some Col fans still try to spin that trade as getting a real "gem", and how EJ's numbers and regression in his stats don't really matter at all. It's pretty delusional given any 3rd party perspective.
the guy just turned 22 at the time, and was a season apart from a 39 point season, so if you consider 1 season clearly fading your out in the trees my friend. the pick they were getting back was top 10 protected so it's not like that first round pick coming back had assured value they may have even gotten that pick for the following draft.

at the time it seemed the trade value went as such

johnson<->stewart
mcclement<->2nd
shattenkirk<->1st

which at the time didn't seem like bad value, rattie is still an unkown he could be a legit top 6 forward moving forward or he could follow the footsteps of brandon kozun, regardless there is no certainty the avs would have drafted rattie. he was never our asset to begin with.

it's rare at this point to see an avs fans spin the trade in our favor , but with a new coach there is hope EJ can get to where he was playing when we traded for him, which he was great.


Last edited by skip2mybordeleau: 05-01-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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05-01-2013, 03:41 PM
  #93
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Splitting hairs here, but his QO next summer will be for $6.5M.
Fair enough - my bad for misremembering. I do think the underlying point is valid though that from my perspective the ROR drama isn't over until he's either traded or signs a reasonable long term extension. At least with the Weber offer-sheet, it's over and NASH has SW long term. The ROR offersheet was a poison pill on several different levels ($5M per year cap-hit to a "non-elite" guy coming off an ELC, contract doesn't include any UFA years, and a $6.5M contract in the final year which sets the baseline for the qualifying offer to keep his rights).

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05-01-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
Well, trading for a #1 draft pick that was clearly fading (not only by his play in St. L, but also the fact that #1 draft picks usually aren't traded by the drafting team, unless expectations have not been met), while giving up massive future assets (Stewart, Shattenkirk, Rattie), was certainly not a smart decision in hind sight. I like how some Col fans still try to spin that trade as getting a real "gem", and how EJ's numbers and regression in his stats don't really matter at all. It's pretty delusional given any 3rd party perspective.
I don't have a dog in the fight, but IMO, EJ wasn't "clearly fading". He's a young d-man, and their development is rarely linear. The Blues were lucky enough to have another potential #1 guy in Pietro, so they could afford to move EJ for a high value return.

IMO, EJ's performance is tied directly to a terrible team that has lacked direction and had the worst coach in the NHL. It is just insane to expect a young d-man to carry a team like the Avs on his back.

And it's not like Stewart as been a model of consistency for the Blues. He's definetly got potential, but there are questions about his motor.

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05-01-2013, 03:54 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
I don't think Siemens and Rattie, if picked today, would be draft in this order. And letting McClement go for nothing is just another great example of terrible asset management by the Col organization. And if they really could have had someone of Sobotka's quality (who also would have had more cost controlled years), that just is a nail in the coffin for the entire management team. They simply have dropped the ball over this entire 3-4 year period, with very little (except perhaps Varlamov) redeeming quality in it.
mcclement not gettting re-signed was a bad thing for the avs, rumor was we offered him around 2.5 a year to stay but he chose to go play close to home for less. can't hate us for him making that decision.

sobotka hadn't even played a year for the blues at that point they were just feeling him out , who knew he would be as solid as he was back then, who knows, who even know's if the blues felt adamant in moving him, hitchcock clearly seems to like him.

how about mcginn, parenteau , hunwick(to an extent) there are some redeeming qualities there.

you like to nit pick uncertainties that can't be determined until you have your hindsight.

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05-01-2013, 04:21 PM
  #96
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Hawks who are one of the most if not the most respected and elite teams right now went through 9 or so year drought and rebuilding.

Avs are going through the same rebuilding process as the Hawks.

But no one seem to remember anymore how bad the Hawks were.

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05-01-2013, 04:25 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by sailorjerry96 View Post
they should have let O'Reilly walk and had #1 pick and #6 pick
ROR is way better than Monahan, Nurse, Zadorov, and others around that pick.

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05-01-2013, 04:46 PM
  #98
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Forgot about Hejda. I think the Avs probably want to have at least one solid veteran per pairing, and unless Jones lights the world on fire, I don't think any of the youngsters are ready for top pairing duty, so the two solid veterans idea probably stands.
My dream scenario for FA has the Avs signing Scuderi at which point we can go into next season with:
Scuderi - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Wilson - Jones

With O'Brien coming in for Wilson when he gets hurt, or Elliott coming in if Jones has made his way onto a higher pairing, something like
Barrie - EJ / Scuderi - EJ
Scuderi - Seth / Barrie - Seth
Hejda - Elliott

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05-01-2013, 04:48 PM
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Some of these do play into it quite a bit. I remember a few years ago where they had an almost miracle run lead by Statsny that almost went from dead last to knocking the Flames out of a playoff spot. I thought for sure that they are a team on the rise. But so far there has been zero to no results since then.

The wierd thing is that their entire organization has this wierd obsession (and also a good part of their fan-base) of getting as many quality centers as possible, at the detriment of basically every other position. Now they are still very strong down the middle, but have to call players like Jones a top winger. Their D is especially neglected, with the only significant thing done to bolster in the last few years being the Johnson trade, which turned out to be somewhat of a flop (at least not what they hoped). Not really sure where they go from here except a serious firesale in the off-season to rebuild from scratch.
Landeskog, Parenteau, McGinn, Downie and Jones with Sgar and Hishon in the AHL...seems pretty solid along the wings to me, with two top line wingers, two quality second liners and Jones who's a streaky borderline second line guy.

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05-01-2013, 04:52 PM
  #100
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I think you are wrong on the bolded part. I think he cares........as long as there is a profit to be made.








Wow, what a heinous, terrible excuse for an owner. Caring about making a profit for his team...shame on him!

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