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Decline of Elite Finnish NHL players?

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Old
04-30-2013, 07:11 PM
  #76
bottomofthefoodchain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarry Curry View Post
Rajala was never even a legit prospect. Teräväinen has a good change due to his amazing speed.
Pulkkinen, 4th rounder and not soft.


Armia, Barkov, Ristolainen, Määttä some other small and soft prospect's you forgot to mention.

e. read post #56. That's what happens, when politician's decide to know something about sport's
Bolded players are the type of players that have a good chance of making it, because they are what I guess you could call "new" Finnish players. Bigger, stronger, smarter. Although I'm unsure about Armia tbh. Never impressed me at the WJC, looked kinda lazy and uninterested.

Not saying Granlund will not become a good player though, because I think he will. Not expecting 80+ points like some though.

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04-30-2013, 08:32 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post
How is Granlund a bust? He's 1 point shy of ppg in the AHL.

It's his first pro-North American season.

Are you kidding me?
Don't worry, Nazem Kadri is a bust also. Granlund will be fine.

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04-30-2013, 08:48 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
Just read my previous post again, it's all because of the major failure in the development of players born in 1985-92ish. Coaches were literally given instructions on how to limit the playing and excercise times of juniors to ridiculously low levels, and how everyone needed to have exact same playing time etc. and how everything just HAD to be EQUAL for everyone.

Here is a blog post in finnish about this whole failure: http://blog.paf.com/petterisihvonen/...ta-urheilusta/

Dunno how well google translate works there though.
this X2 It could also explain the goaltending strength in Finland. I'm guessing The netminder is the one player that the coach did not have to give equal time.

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04-30-2013, 11:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Gnashville View Post
this X2 It could also explain the goaltending strength in Finland. I'm guessing The netminder is the one player that the coach did not have to give equal time.
...which also in turn describes why scoring is down in general. Because in NA, not only is there the pressure to have everyone play, they also demand winning at a young age. Kids learning defensive systems at age 6 instead of focusing on individual skills.

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05-01-2013, 12:01 AM
  #80
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Paajarvi has cemented himself as an NHLer now. He is half Finnish. And Hartikainen will likely stay on the Oilers roster next year. He was sent down to help OKC.

They may not be "elite" but the Fins are producing a lot of talent. But they don't get nearly the same amount of scouts as Sweden does.

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05-01-2013, 12:53 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JFG View Post
I read an interesting comparasion between NHL goals scored by swedish and finnish players under a specific age. Someone remember this?
Not sure about that one, but I think this is quite telling: All Finns drafted in the past 10 drafts combined for 18 goals and 45 points in the NHL this year.

In comparison Saku (38) and Mikko Koivu (30) combined for 19 goals and 5 points, Nicklas Bäckstrom had 48 points by himself, while Patrick Berglund came close to the Finnish goal total with 17.

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05-01-2013, 06:04 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Paajarvi has cemented himself as an NHLer now. He is half Finnish. And Hartikainen will likely stay on the Oilers roster next year. He was sent down to help OKC.

They may not be "elite" but the Fins are producing a lot of talent. But they don't get nearly the same amount of scouts as Sweden does.
Pääjärvi is not even close to being half Finnish.
It's very common for people so far north to have a Finnish name, even if they are generations apart from being Finnish.
He is also fully developed in Sweden.

e. Mika Zibanejad is half Finnish and half Iranian but plays for Sweden.
Chris Pronger's mom is Finnish but he chose to play for Canada, because he could never crack our Olympic roster


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05-01-2013, 06:33 AM
  #83
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Those bad years at NHL draft really sucked. However, I think we're going to the right direction right now.

We'll be fine.

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05-01-2013, 06:55 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Highway to Cap Hell View Post
They've got Pitkanen, Jokinen, Ruutu, Korprikovski (sic), Mikko Koivu, Filpulla and Leino.

In addition to young players like Granlund, Teravainen, Armia, Barkov and Ristolainen coming up.

Not the end of the world. Still got some solid players. Just surprising that none of them want to play in the WC this year when Finland is a co-host nation.
But are any of those players elite? Or will the younger ones be? That's the OP's question.

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05-01-2013, 06:57 AM
  #85
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But are any of those players elite? Or will the younger ones be? That's the OP's question.
I think all 5 have a solid chance to become elite.

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05-01-2013, 07:18 AM
  #86
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Rajala is 22, in his first AHL season he's put up ppg. A bit early to say "he never made it" imo. Just my opinion.

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05-01-2013, 08:22 AM
  #87
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Don't really see Rajala making it to the Oilers' roster, tbh.

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05-01-2013, 08:31 AM
  #88
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It looks like they have another goalie gem in the making in Aittokallio.

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05-01-2013, 08:47 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by fallsviewafro View Post
what i dont understand is how badly norway and denmark lag in comparison. the genes are 100% similar...
Norway has skiing and Denmark lacks a real winter.

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05-01-2013, 09:34 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Barkov
Armia
Ristolainen
Vatanen
Granlund
Pulkkinen
Teravainen
Hartkainen
Aittokalio

I think they'll be just fine
Compare these to other countries top-prospects or young player and notice why they are in trouble. Sweden, USA, Canada, Russia can beat these prospects out of the water.

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05-01-2013, 09:36 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
It looks like they have another goalie gem in the making in Aittokallio.
I guess he played okay season in AHL, but is he really that potential at this point? What are the chances Colorado producing good goaltender?

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05-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
I think all 5 have a solid chance to become elite.
Elite? Hardly. Granlund will not be elite. He's gonna top-out(max potential) as good first line center, certainly not elite, he's just too weak/small to make it better. Armia? He's a headcase. He's lucky If he stays in NHL longer than 5 years. Vatanen? Hardly elite, his downsize will be always defense, lack of size. He might become elite player offensively, even at NHL though, but hardly elite defenseman. Goaltenders are kinda hard to predict. Teräväinen? Elite. No. Not fast/strong enough. Great skillset, but not good enough physically.

Barkov has the best chance becoming elite IMO. Others I disagree. They don't really have potential to become elite.

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05-01-2013, 09:48 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
I guess he played okay season in AHL, but is he really that potential at this point? What are the chances Colorado producing good goaltender?
He has everything you want in a goalie, poise (what he did against the Kings in his NHL debut was simply outstanding), agility, positioning etc. If he works on his rebound control and stays patient he could easily end up as a sure fire starting goalie in the future.

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05-01-2013, 09:56 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Jarry Curry View Post
Chris Pronger's mom is Finnish but he chose to play for Canada, because he could never crack our Olympic roster
Didn't know that Pronger's mom was Finnish before, wow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arselona View Post
Rajala is 22, in his first AHL season he's put up ppg. A bit early to say "he never made it" imo. Just my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
Don't really see Rajala making it to the Oilers' roster, tbh.
Don't think he's going to make any NHL roster for that matter, but something has definitely changed in his game. Last time I saw him play with Ilves, he literally ran away if he was about to be hit lol.

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05-01-2013, 09:56 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Elite? Hardly. Granlund will not be elite. He's gonna top-out(max potential) as good first line center, certainly not elite, he's just too weak/small to make it better. Armia? He's a headcase. He's lucky If he stays in NHL longer than 5 years. Vatanen? Hardly elite, his downsize will be always defense, lack of size. He might become elite player offensively, even at NHL though, but hardly elite defenseman. Goaltenders are kinda hard to predict. Teräväinen? Elite. No. Not fast/strong enough. Great skillset, but not good enough physically.

Barkov has the best chance becoming elite IMO. Others I disagree. They don't really have potential to become elite.
I agree. They should all just retire and spare themselfs from embarrassment

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05-01-2013, 09:58 AM
  #96
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Armia is a headcase now?

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05-01-2013, 09:58 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SoupyFIN View Post
Didn't know that Pronger's mom was Finnish before, wow.
Link Gaetz's mom is Finnish too.
Mixing Canadian's and Finn's can be a great success or it can go horribly wrong

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05-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #98
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Since when did Finland ever used to have more then 1-2 elite NHL talents?

Kurri
Tikkanen
Lehtinen
Teppo Numminem??

It's not like the NHL was chock a block full of elite Finns at any point in the last 30 years. Are they really in decline, or just par for the course?

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05-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Elite? Hardly. Granlund will not be elite. He's gonna top-out(max potential) as good first line center, certainly not elite, he's just too weak/small to make it better. Armia? He's a headcase. He's lucky If he stays in NHL longer than 5 years. Vatanen? Hardly elite, his downsize will be always defense, lack of size. He might become elite player offensively, even at NHL though, but hardly elite defenseman. Goaltenders are kinda hard to predict. Teräväinen? Elite. No. Not fast/strong enough. Great skillset, but not good enough physically.

Barkov has the best chance becoming elite IMO. Others I disagree. They don't really have potential to become elite.
Wow.

Armia isn't a headcase. Don't really know why you would think that.
Granlund I can see getting 70 point season once he adjusts better. It's his first season in NA, obviously he needs to make some adjustements to his game. Being an intelligent player certainly helps. He was getting thrown around in the beginning of the season, but he's adjusted pretty well to the physical aspect of the game. He'll be fine.
Teräväinen is a young guy, plenty of time for him to get stronger.

Btw, I said they all have a solid chance. Obviously they all have work to do, but they're all solid prospects. Also, depends what you consider elite.


Last edited by Lapa: 05-01-2013 at 10:09 AM.
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Old
05-01-2013, 10:08 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Bank Shot View Post
Since when did Finland ever used to have more then 1-2 elite NHL talents?

Kurri
Tikkanen
Lehtinen
Teppo Numminem??

It's not like the NHL was chock a block full of elite Finns at any point in the last 30 years. Are they really in decline, or just par for the course?
The NHL wasn't always the dream for players in Europe.
Salary wasn't much better and coache's like Don Cherry had a job.
Guys like Matti Hagman (propably the 3rd best Finnish hockey player of all time) didn't get any ice time and just decided **** it and wen't back to Europe.

Reijo Ruotsalainen would lead the rags in point's one season and then go back to Europe the next.

e. and there were guys like Christian Ruuttu, Petri Skriko, Sami Kapanen, Jyrki Lumme, Janne Laukkanen, Ilkka Sinisalo, Risto Siltanen, Pekka Rautakallio etc.


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