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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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05-06-2013, 12:18 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Paajarvi 2.0?

Also, I think we could probably get a 1st round pick for Hemsky if we retained half his salary.
Jarome Iginla barely got a first round pick. Ditto for Bouwmeester. You think Hemsky will get you a first?

Not bloody likely.

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05-06-2013, 12:34 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Jarome Iginla barely got a first round pick. Ditto for Bouwmeester. You think Hemsky will get you a first?

Not bloody likely.
Not sure what "barely" means in this situation. Iginla and Jbo had NMC didn't they? Paul Gaustad also got a 1st round pick if you remember, so it depends on the market. I would imagine Hemsky would be very desirable at half his cap even with the injury risk.

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05-06-2013, 12:59 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Not sure what "barely" means in this situation. Iginla and Jbo had NMC didn't they? Paul Gaustad also got a 1st round pick if you remember, so it depends on the market. I would imagine Hemsky would be very desirable at half his cap even with the injury risk.
Barely meaning last half of the first round and little else besides. Gaustad was last year. This year with the declining cap is altogether different. Gaustad also came with four years left on a new contract. Apples and oranges. Hemsky is a one dimensional player and he cant even carry water anymore with the one thing he is supposed to be good at.

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05-06-2013, 01:09 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Not sure what "barely" means in this situation. Iginla and Jbo had NMC didn't they? Paul Gaustad also got a 1st round pick if you remember, so it depends on the market. I would imagine Hemsky would be very desirable at half his cap even with the injury risk.
Barely as in there is a very real chance that those picks end up being the last 2 picks of the 1st round. Still 1st rounders, but "barely".

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05-06-2013, 01:13 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by YakuBOT View Post
Not sure what "barely" means in this situation. Iginla and Jbo had NMC didn't they? Paul Gaustad also got a 1st round pick if you remember, so it depends on the market. I would imagine Hemsky would be very desirable at half his cap even with the injury risk.
I would be beyond shocked if a team gave up a 1st rounder for Hemsky.
Gaustad held value at the deadline because he's a physical center who can win faceoffs, that holds a lot of value for a team making a playoff run.
Hemsky's value used to be that he was a good point producer when healthy and injuries were the only concern.
Now Hemsky is an injury prone player who doesn't even produce points anymore, was barely .5 PPG the last 2 seasons. I'm sure that his value has deteriorated to virtually nothing at this point, one of Tambellini's biggest failures in his tenure was not dealing him much sooner.

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05-06-2013, 01:19 PM
  #356
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Hemsky probably only holds value at the trade deadline if we're out of a playoffs spot and he's having a decent season and isnt injured. If they are looking to move him it will likely have to be for someone elses problem/completely unproven marginal player. With the cap dropping it's unlikely anybody will take a guy with a $5 million salary and the reputation as a bit of a floater.

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05-06-2013, 01:27 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
I would be beyond shocked if a team gave up a 1st rounder for Hemsky.
Gaustad held value at the deadline because he's a physical center who can win faceoffs, that holds a lot of value for a team making a playoff run.
Hemsky's value used to be that he was a good point producer when healthy and injuries were the only concern.
Now Hemsky is an injury prone player who doesn't even produce points anymore, was barely .5 PPG the last 2 seasons. I'm sure that his value has deteriorated to virtually nothing at this point, one of Tambellini's biggest failures in his tenure was not dealing him much sooner.
THIS. Watching Hemsky get dealt for not much of anything is going to be bittersweet vindication for those of us that have been saying for the last 2 years that the time to deal him is nigh. There were a lot of things Tambo was terrible at as a GM, but the worst might have been his asset management. Dude was clueless.

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05-06-2013, 02:38 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by MinnesotaFats View Post
THIS. Watching Hemsky get dealt for not much of anything is going to be bittersweet vindication for those of us that have been saying for the last 2 years that the time to deal him is nigh. There were a lot of things Tambo was terrible at as a GM, but the worst might have been his asset management. Dude was clueless.
i dont think he's had much demand since the deadline we were asking for schenn from LA, they didn't bite so we traded penner instead.


would you have preferred we traded hemsky for that package?

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05-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
i dont think he's had much demand since the deadline we were asking for schenn from LA, they didn't bite so we traded penner instead.


would you have preferred we traded hemsky for that package?
I think, judging by what Penner got at the time, we could have moved Hemsky for a 1st and a better prospect than Teubert. If we did move Hemsky to LA, we probably could have either kept Penner or traded him to another team and ended up with three first rounders in the 2011 draft.

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05-06-2013, 03:20 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli View Post
50% of a contract can be retained.

I think Carolina would be more interested this deal. Supposedly they want immediate help, so perhaps 7th + Hemsky or N. Schultz (They're looking for a veteran defensive defenseman) would be an appealing offer for 5th.
I'd rather move Hemsky than N. Schultz just because of how thin we are on D. I'd be down with that and I'd actually prefer it to moving our 2nd to move up.

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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Pretty sure Calgary is going to take Monahan. We will be stuck with Paajarvi 2.0.
Lindholm is nothing like Paajarvi, he has better puck skills, is grittier, and plays much more physically than Paajarvi ever has.

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05-06-2013, 03:34 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Lindholm is nothing like Paajarvi, he has better puck skills, is grittier, and plays much more physically than Paajarvi ever has.
Not really. I remember when Paajarvi was draft eligible. People were talking about how good his puck skills were. Not sure where you get the idea Lindholm is physical. I saw him make two hits on a five minute youtube compilation, and nothing from the international tournament games I have seen him play in. If that is the "toughness" upgrade we are looking for then Im afraid will have to keep on looking.

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05-06-2013, 03:43 PM
  #362
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Two things, Liquor.

First, Lindholm averaged over a hit per game. He was the SEL rookie leader in hits. A big reason why the hits per game stats is always lower in the SEL than the NHL or FEL is the bigger ice surface. http://estat.hockeyligan.se/c/LPlaye...TId=36&Limit=0

Second, Lindholm regularly gets praised for having fantastic hitting technique, being very aggressive on the forecheck and battling hard and well along the boards. The guy relishes physical contact. Just watch how he skates with the puck--his entire style is about balance and puck protection.

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05-06-2013, 03:48 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not really. I remember when Paajarvi was draft eligible. People were talking about how good his puck skills were. Not sure where you get the idea Lindholm is physical. I saw him make two hits on a five minute youtube compilation, and nothing from the international tournament games I have seen him play in. If that is the "toughness" upgrade we are looking for then Im afraid will have to keep on looking.
I wonder what tournaments you watched. He is a pretty physical player and plays a very aggressive game, the fact that you even compare him to Paajarvi shows you've never seen him play. They are from the same country but they are COMPLETELY different type of players. But don't worry, he won't be there at seven anyway.

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05-06-2013, 04:05 PM
  #364
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Lol. Ok buddy. Maybe you could provide us with some examples? Surely there is a huge selection of video evidence for you to choose from. Ill be waiting.

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05-06-2013, 04:35 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Lol. Ok buddy. Maybe you could provide us with some examples? Surely there is a huge selection of video evidence for you to choose from. Ill be waiting.


Last edited by s7ark: 05-06-2013 at 05:06 PM. Reason: fixed video
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05-06-2013, 04:48 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by Huffman View Post
I wonder what tournaments you watched. He is a pretty physical player and plays a very aggressive game, the fact that you even compare him to Paajarvi shows you've never seen him play. They are from the same country but they are COMPLETELY different type of players. But don't worry, he won't be there at seven anyway.
But...they are both Swedish. They must be the same.

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05-06-2013, 04:59 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not really. I remember when Paajarvi was draft eligible. People were talking about how good his puck skills were.
I disagree of Paajarvi, the talk was that he had good offensive tools but lacked finish, and that is still the case.

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05-06-2013, 05:03 PM
  #368
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Sorry doesnt work. But if that is the five minute compilation with two hits, Ive seen it already.

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05-06-2013, 05:07 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Fixed for ya

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05-06-2013, 05:08 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Mowzie View Post
I disagree of Paajarvi, the talk was that he had good offensive tools but lacked finish, and that is still the case.
http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...?articleid=537
Quote:
Report: The first thing you notice when you watch Magnus play is he can skate, very well. His ability to go from a standstill to top speed is amazing and that top speed is very good. He can push defenders back and create space for him to dangle. Can snipe goals with a great shot or create. Very high offensive roof.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ne...ply&p=27004877
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Eller is a good 2nd line center, decent 1st liner IMO whereas MPS is a projectable all-star. He doesn't have Magnus' blazing skating ability which is the major thing that separates them. Eller will be a league average skater whereas Magnus can likely be one of the better skaters in the NHL. Both have above average puck skills and I think Magnus has a better shot. Eller is a little better physically.

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05-06-2013, 05:27 PM
  #371
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Most of that talks about his skating exploits, I would say that he has above NHL average hands and he showed better hands this year than any other year in his NA career. However Lindholm clearly has better puck skills and his work in the trenches are better now than Paajarvi's was at any point in his pro career. Paajarvi's highlights for the most part from Sweden were his rushes and creating on the rush instead of in front of the net/winning battles on the boards.

EDIT-Not to bust your balls too much here, but am I mistaken in that I thought that you said that you don't treat Pronman's word as much? I thought that I read that in another thread. Paajarvi's finishing ability is what had people concerned in his draft year from what I recall.

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05-06-2013, 05:28 PM
  #372
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not really. I remember when Paajarvi was draft eligible. People were talking about how good his puck skills were. Not sure where you get the idea Lindholm is physical. I saw him make two hits on a five minute youtube compilation, and nothing from the international tournament games I have seen him play in. If that is the "toughness" upgrade we are looking for then Im afraid will have to keep on looking.
Don't the scouting reports have Lindholm as a good defensive player with some grit and physicallity to his game? Most of his highlight packs have seem to indicate that but it does just single out a couple of clips. It would be nice to see what kind of presence he can make throughout a game but I don't think I've seen him outside of highlight packs.

But isn't his offense already way ahead of Paajarvi when comparing their draft years in the SEL? and isn't it like the 4th highest out of draft eligible players coming out of that league? Lindholm has some fantastic vision and I don't get the Paajarvi comparison.

Is the toughness upgrade you're looking for really coming from the 18/19 year old rookie we might draft this year?

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05-06-2013, 05:40 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Lol. Ok buddy. Maybe you could provide us with some examples? Surely there is a huge selection of video evidence for you to choose from. Ill be waiting.
You'll find a whole tournament on this site:

http://www.playo.tv/video/latvia-vs-sweden-542.aspx

And since you like physical play you should check out 130:00 in the video.

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05-06-2013, 05:41 PM
  #374
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After watching the video, I'm unimpressed. I hope this isn't who we are taking. How many times was he on his butt after he hit a guy?

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05-06-2013, 05:47 PM
  #375
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Most of that talks about his skating exploits, I would say that he has above NHL average hands and he showed better hands this year than any other year in his NA career. However Lindholm clearly has better puck skills and his work in the trenches are better now than Paajarvi's was at any point in his pro career. Paajarvi's highlights for the most part from Sweden were his rushes and creating on the rush instead of in front of the net/winning battles on the boards.
I dont dispute any of that from what I have seen. He looks very gifted offensively, albeit in a euro league on the big ice. He doesnt seem to be afraid of the physical stuff either and I have seen him lay a couple of big hits. What concerns me is the makeup of our team and if adding Lindholm is really the best option considering that. I dont think it is tbh. But again, my viewings/knowledge of the player is really limited. Just going from the little I have seen.

Quote:
EDIT-Not to bust your balls too much here, but am I mistaken in that I thought that you said that you don't treat Pronman's word as much? I thought that I read that in another thread. Paajarvi's finishing ability is what had people concerned in his draft year from what I recall.
Not a fan, just pointing out that "people" were saying that back then. This fits that criteria.

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But isn't his offense already way ahead of Paajarvi when comparing their draft years in the SEL? and isn't it like the 4th highest out of draft eligible players coming out of that league? Lindholm has some fantastic vision and I don't get the Paajarvi comparison.
I believe so. I also think we have quite a bit of offensive upside in our top six already, Im more interested in upgrading our toughness/two way play/defensive side of the game. If we can find a player that excels in those areas as well as adding some offense (Curtis Lazar anyone?) then that is who piques my interest.

Quote:
Is the toughness upgrade you're looking for really coming from the 18/19 year old rookie we might draft this year?
I think it is a good place to start. Monahan, Lazar, Nurse, Zadarov would be who I would be looking at.

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