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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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Old
05-11-2013, 09:37 PM
  #651
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From what I've seen his issues aren't hockey-sense related. If anything that's his biggest strength, in all aspects of the game.

His limitations are probably lack of elite-level speed/skill/size. He's all heart and it seems to bring results.

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05-11-2013, 09:38 PM
  #652
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05-11-2013, 09:41 PM
  #653
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He isnt small, he is fast, and he has an nhl level shot right now. You must have stepped on some tasty gum, because you keep sticking your foot in your mouth.


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05-11-2013, 09:41 PM
  #654
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So why in Gawd's name would one trade #7 Plus to St Louis for Patrik Berglund? I'll tell you why. Upside AND what has been beaten to death by nexttothemoon so brilliantly I might add(i.e. We are not a player or 2 away from contention here. We are deep in a rebuild whether we like it or not). DO you think Berglund fetches any of Couturier, Hamilton, or Brodin? I say not a chance. That's why you make the pick or trade up for your guy.
I'd trade Strome, Zibanejad, or Schiefele for Berglund all guys taken ahead of the guys listed. Couturier is a wash as His upside is slightly higher then Berglunds. Either way Berglund would look good here and I could see him getting 30-30 playing with Eberle. We'd be lucky if we got a player of his caliber with the 7th overall pick. Same goes for trading it for Yandle or Shattenkirk. We need impact players now not in 3-5 years depending on development, if they develop at all.

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05-11-2013, 09:43 PM
  #655
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He isnt small, he is fast, and he has an nhl level shot right now. You must have stepped on some tasty gum, because you keep sticking your foot in your mouth.

I said he didn't have elite size. He's only 6'. Not a big C like Monahan.

He's WHL fast, he's not NHL fast.

His shot is probably his biggest asset, I'll give him that. His playmaking is also really good, not represented by his assist totals.

I compare him to a pre-draft Ryan O'Reilly, but IMO ROR had more offensive ability in his draft year, specifically much better playmaker.

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05-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #656
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How many tv viewings? What games exactly?
I don't remember what games off the top of my head. it was about a half dozen on TV over the season. Maybe it was just the games I watched, but he didn't look as good with the puck. I'm not questioning his shot or anything. Just when a guy like Nuge has the puck, you know he's thinking what's going to happen 3 passes from then. Lazar seems like he's just trying to go with it

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05-11-2013, 09:49 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
I said he didn't have elite size. He's only 6'. Not a big C like Monahan.

He's WHL fast, he's not NHL fast.

His shot is probably his biggest asset, I'll give him that. His playmaking is also really good, not represented by his assist totals.

I compare him to a pre-draft Ryan O'Reilly, but IMO ROR had more offensive ability in his draft year, specifically much better playmaker.
Elite size? Wtf is that exactly?

WHL fast? Huh?

A pre-draft ROR? You mean the guy who was ranked #39?

Youre embarrassing yourself.

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05-11-2013, 09:51 PM
  #658
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I don't remember what games off the top of my head. it was about a half dozen on TV over the season. Maybe it was just the games I watched, but he didn't look as good with the puck. I'm not questioning his shot or anything. Just when a guy like Nuge has the puck, you know he's thinking what's going to happen 3 passes from then. Lazar seems like he's just trying to go with it
You do realize that Lazar led the Oil Kings in goals this year and scored more goals than Hunter Shinkaruk right?

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05-11-2013, 09:55 PM
  #659
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You do realize that Lazar led the Oil Kings in goals this year and scored more goals than Hunter Shinkaruk right?
Yes I do. That's not what I'm questioning. He's got a very good shot.

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05-11-2013, 09:56 PM
  #660
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Elite size? Wtf is that exactly?

WHL fast? Huh?

A pre-draft ROR? You mean the guy who was ranked #39?

Youre embarrassing yourself.
Talent level is basically the same. You re-do that draft and ROR goes in the top-20.

Both have a similar solid 6' frame, both don't have anything explosive about their skating/speed. And both have solid but limited offensive abilities. The statistical difference between their goals/assists in the CHL I feel won't corroborate with their NHL production/abilities. I feel Lazar's playmaking is underrated right now the same way ROR's goal-scoring ability was underrated coming out of the O.

An "NHL level shot" is the same thing people were saying about Tyler Pitlick in his draft year.

I feel it's the same overall package. I don't much of a difference between ROR and Lazar in their pre-draft years. If you're going to base your entire opinion on pre-draft rankings, then you're basically contradicting everything you've said about Lazar in the past month or so. His pre-draft ranking is about 5-10 below Monahan and yet you treat him like the second coming.

That's fine though, it's natural to have unrealistic biases and attachments to a player because you happen to go to see them live.

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05-11-2013, 09:58 PM
  #661
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You do realize that Lazar led the Oil Kings in goals this year and scored more goals than Hunter Shinkaruk right?
Yeah, and Shinkaruk had about 25+ more points. I'm not too big on him though, doesn't seem assertive enough to be a solid 2C heading forward. Too much of a perimeter player.

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05-11-2013, 10:01 PM
  #662
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I'd trade Strome, Zibanejad, or Schiefele for Berglund all guys taken ahead of the guys listed. Couturier is a wash as His upside is slightly higher then Berglunds. Either way Berglund would look good here and I could see him getting 30-30 playing with Eberle. We'd be lucky if we got a player of his caliber with the 7th overall pick. Same goes for trading it for Yandle or Shattenkirk. We need impact players now not in 3-5 years depending on development, if they develop at all.
I don't agree with any of this but the greater point is we are not in the stage of our rebuild to be trading the upside of this pick for a Patrik Berglund ( whom I think is a very nice player). Get over the fact we've missed the playoffs for 7 straight years, this rebuild is 3 years old and we can't afford to be impatient now. There are so many ways to improve this team in the standings without making this type of move.

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05-11-2013, 10:20 PM
  #663
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Yes I do. That's not what I'm questioning. He's got a very good shot.
You also know his "spot" on the pp is to be a screen in front of the net right? Not too many assists coming from that spot.

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05-11-2013, 10:24 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Talent level is basically the same. You re-do that draft and ROR goes in the top-20.

Both have a similar solid 6' frame, both don't have anything explosive about their skating/speed. And both have solid but limited offensive abilities. The statistical difference between their goals/assists in the CHL I feel won't corroborate with their NHL production/abilities. I feel Lazar's playmaking is underrated right now the same way ROR's goal-scoring ability was underrated coming out of the O.

An "NHL level shot" is the same thing people were saying about Tyler Pitlick in his draft year.

I feel it's the same overall package. I don't much of a difference between ROR and Lazar in their pre-draft years. If you're going to base your entire opinion on pre-draft rankings, then you're basically contradicting everything you've said about Lazar in the past month or so. His pre-draft ranking is about 5-10 below Monahan and yet you treat him like the second coming.

That's fine though, it's natural to have unrealistic biases and attachments to a player because you happen to go to see them live.
Is that right?

I guess my eyes have been deceiving me all those times he blew by defenders leaving them in the dust.

Why dont you tell us all where Lazar will go in his re-draft?

That's fine though, its natural to talk out of your rear when you havent seen the player live ever. I would be surprised if youve seen him play outside the prospects game or the Subway series tbh.

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05-11-2013, 10:30 PM
  #665
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Is that right?

I guess my eyes have been deceiving me all those times he blew by defenders leaving them in the dust.

Why dont you tell us all where Lazar will go in his re-draft?

That's fine though, its natural to talk out of your rear when you havent seen the player live ever. I would be surprised if youve seen him play outside the prospects game or the Subway series tbh.
I've seen him play 3 times live. Then 3-4 times on TV in the playoffs. That's about it. He's also the prospect in this draft I've seen live more than any other.

If you ask me where Lazar goes in this draft - I'm going to say between 10-25. Definitely not top10.

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05-11-2013, 10:31 PM
  #666
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I've seen him play 3 times live. Then 3-4 times in the playoffs. That's about it. He's also the prospect I've seen live more than any other.

If you ask me where Lazar goes in this draft - I'm going to say between 10-25. Definitely not top10.
10-25 eh.

That's really narrowing it down.

Still waiting to hear where he goes in the re-draft.

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05-11-2013, 10:33 PM
  #667
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10-25 eh.

That's really narrowing it down.

Still waiting to hear where he goes in the re-draft.
Lower than ROR would go in his. I'm stoked we're not going to hear his name at #7.


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05-11-2013, 10:34 PM
  #668
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10-25 eh.

That's really narrowing it down.

Still waiting to hear where he goes in the re-draft.
If you want me to say where Bob Mack puts him in his final rankings, I'm going to predict likely 12-18.

But of course, I'd love to hear your prediction.

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05-11-2013, 10:44 PM
  #669
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If you want me to say where Bob Mack puts him in his final rankings, I'm going to predict likely 12-18.

But of course, I'd love to hear your prediction.
Im not arrogant enough to predict where players Ive never/rarely seen play will be drafted.

Ill leave that to you and the rest of the neverseenemhockeydb'ers.

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05-11-2013, 10:45 PM
  #670
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05-11-2013, 10:46 PM
  #671
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Im not arrogant enough to predict where players Ive never/rarely seen play will be drafted.

Ill leave that to you and the rest of the neverseenemhockeydb'ers.

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05-11-2013, 10:55 PM
  #672
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That's about the size of it. Nothing to say.

Go ahead and tell us all about these players youve never seen before.

Then someone who has actually seen them will come along and tell us the real story.

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05-11-2013, 10:56 PM
  #673
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That's about the size of it. Nothing to say.

Go ahead and tell us all about these players youve never seen before.

Then someone who has actually seen them will come along and tell us the real story.
No one has seen Lazar play except you. Not Pronman, not Button, not Mckenzie, not anyone that sits in Rexall place at EOK games. Just you. We get it. And you're not arrogant. We get that too.

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05-11-2013, 10:57 PM
  #674
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Voracek then >> MPS now, AINEC. And I'm a huge MPS fan.
I had Voracek at #2 in 2007. Still a big fan of him.

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05-11-2013, 10:58 PM
  #675
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I had Voracek at #2 in 2007. Still a big fan of him.
He's who I was gunning for at #6. Was choked we'd gone with Gagner. Was also gunning for Alzner big time.

Then again I had Ellerby above Gagner in that draft

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