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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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05-13-2013, 05:22 PM
  #776
DousedInOil
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I completely agree with you.

I would have no problem taking Lazar(or even Horvat) in the latter half of the top 10.
Don't get me wrong because I really do like Lazar. I have both him and Horvat in my top 15. My problem is that of you take Lazar at 7 you have to argue that he is the BPA.

You could definitely make an argument that Lazar is what we need but it's not like we don't need a big aggressive defenceman (Nurse) or a big power forward (Nichuskin) at that point. Sure, we need a guy like Lazar but we also need what the other two guys bring to the table. If I'm taking Lazar at 7 it's because we believe he's the BPA.

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05-13-2013, 05:24 PM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
If Lazar played for The Tri-City Americans, I don't think we would even be discussing the possibility of drafting him over players such as Nurse and Lindholm. The fact that he is an Oil King, raises his value to this fan base tremendously.
No one on here wants to admit it but I think this has a massive influence on HFoil...

We're the only fanbase that seems to be talking about him much at all, there's one sign we're a little biased. If we traded down and picked him later while adding a roster player that can help us now then I wouldn't be upset about it at all but when drafting high I'd much rather bet on the players that are actually ranked around our spot, or better to get someone who falls from above than take a chance and reach just for a more familiar face.

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05-13-2013, 05:25 PM
  #778
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Don't get me wrong because I really do like Lazar. I have both him and Horvat in my top 15. My problem is that of you take Lazar at 7 you have to argue that he is the BPA.

You could definitely make an argument that Lazar is what we need but it's not like we don't need a big aggressive defenceman (Nurse) or a big power forward (Nichuskin) at that point. Sure, we need a guy like Lazar but we also need what the other two guys being to the table. If I'm taking Lazar at 7 it's because we believe he's the BPA.
Remember when the Kings took Thomas Hickey at #4 because he was "their guy", it's gone poorly for them.
Great for the Isles though.

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05-13-2013, 05:26 PM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
Fair point, I still think there's a bit of a love fest, since he's an oil king and fans have seen him "grow up". At the end of the day, the Oilers should take the best player available; taking in to account that the top 8 is supposedly a large step above the rest of the pack.
Nurse isn't even BPA at 7 so I don't know why we're talking about him. Out of every player currently rated in the top 10 Nurse and Shinkaruk have the highest potential to bust IMO. No way Rutherford takes him at 5, I think Ristolainen and Pulock both go before Nurse.

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05-13-2013, 05:32 PM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Samwise Gagner View Post
No one on here wants to admit it but I think this has a massive influence on HFoil...

We're the only fanbase that seems to be talking about him much at all, there's one sign we're a little biased. If we traded down and picked him later while adding a roster player that can help us now then I wouldn't be upset about it at all but when drafting high I'd much rather bet on the players that are actually ranked around our spot, or better to get someone who falls from above than take a chance and reach just for a more familiar face.
There is no doubt the Edmonton familarity with Lazar plays into it, but it's also because he seems like exactly the type of draft pick we need right now, at least wrt forwards.

And Bob McKenzie said he received 2 or more votes to get into the top 10 overall prospects but just missed the cut - so it's not just the HFB crowd hyping him.


On that note, IATL - as the biggest (or most obvious) Lazar fan here, which center do you rate over him? Barkov I assume, Monahan? Lindholm?

Where do you rank Horvat? Gauthier?

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05-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  #781
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
I actually don't think that plays too much into it.

It's not like he's some borderline 2nd rounder getting hyped up. ISS has him at #12 and Bob McKenzie said he's just outside of his top10.

He's the exact type of player the Oilers need and he's ranked right around where they're picking. Makes sense why his name always comes up.
It plays into the discussion on here a lot because there are a lot of people who have seen him play a ton of games over the last two seasons, and they want to assert their views of him. There's no denying he's a very good player and fills a need on the team, but personally I find it very difficult to have him ranked where we're picking.

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05-13-2013, 06:11 PM
  #782
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Don't get me wrong because I really do like Lazar. I have both him and Horvat in my top 15. My problem is that of you take Lazar at 7 you have to argue that he is the BPA.

You could definitely make an argument that Lazar is what we need but it's not like we don't need a big aggressive defenceman (Nurse) or a big power forward (Nichuskin) at that point. Sure, we need a guy like Lazar but we also need what the other two guys bring to the table. If I'm taking Lazar at 7 it's because we believe he's the BPA.
All depends on how the Oilers define BPA.

When you consider what MacT and Stu look for in a player/prospect, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the team has Lazar ranked ahead of a guy like Nichushkin.

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05-13-2013, 06:33 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by DousedInOil View Post
Don't get me wrong because I really do like Lazar. I have both him and Horvat in my top 15. My problem is that of you take Lazar at 7 you have to argue that he is the BPA.

You could definitely make an argument that Lazar is what we need but it's not like we don't need a big aggressive defenceman (Nurse) or a big power forward (Nichuskin) at that point. Sure, we need a guy like Lazar but we also need what the other two guys bring to the table. If I'm taking Lazar at 7 it's because we believe he's the BPA.
BPA is extremely subjective even as early as the #7 pick. BUt even so I think that team needs do have to come into the equation. Would anyone here be happy today if they chose a small playmaking RW because they felt he was marginally better at this point than a big center that they had ranked two slots down the horn. The fact that they already have Yakupov and Eberle impacts this. THe team can aford not to hit a home run but they had better get a guy who can play.

Now of course Nurse is not a small RW. But he is stll pretty raw. Offensive defensemen tend to be able to make the jump sooner but even the best still struggle. Guys like Nurse whose game is more connected to their physical play tend to have wider ranges of success and to mature later. Are the Oilers prepared to wait 5 years for him to make his presence know?

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05-13-2013, 06:43 PM
  #784
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I have no problem taking Nurse. I don't think he's 5 years away either, on this team he'll be on the roster in 2 years.

But honestly I'd push to move the pick for Couturier. I think Philly wants Nurse.


Last edited by Soundwave: 05-13-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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Old
05-13-2013, 06:49 PM
  #785
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Nichushkin will be a steal at #7. At the risk of sounding like a broken record... he's everything the Oilers need in the Top 6.

Hall, Nichushkin and Yakupov in the Oilers top 6 in 3-5 years time will be brutal on the opposition (before that as well.... but they'll all be in solid NHL form by that point).

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05-13-2013, 06:51 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
I have no problem taking Nurse. I don't think he's 5 years away either, on this team he'll be on the roster in 2 years.
agree... at this point it seems it'll be a tossup between Nichushkin and Nurse with an outside shot at Monahan...

Cant really complain much with either of the three..

Hall\Seguin ,, Yak\Murray were a lot more heated discussion...

This will be like picking between Gagner and Voracek again.. (good and good)

Only fear is that we might pick a Zadorov or Lazar at this spot..

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05-13-2013, 06:54 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Nichushkin will be a steal at #7. At the risk of sounding like a broken record... he's everything the Oilers need in the Top 6.

Hall, Nichushkin and Yakupov in the Oilers top 6 in 3-5 years time will be brutal on the opposition (before that as well.... but they'll all be in solid NHL form by that point).
everything minus what we really need... faceoffs\Big C\200 hits per season

Monahan\Barkov give you all of that. Nichushkin ( to me a wing version of Grigorenko) not so much.

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05-13-2013, 07:04 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
everything minus what we really need... faceoffs\Big C\200 hits per season

Monahan\Barkov give you all of that. Nichushkin ( to me a wing version of Grigorenko) not so much.
I'm not going to argue picking Monahan or Barkov vs Nichushkin because all 3 are great choices... can't really lose imo.... but I will say the Oilers should keep it simple and keep the 7th and pick one of those... it's highly likely 1 of those 3 will still be available and if not... Lindholm is an excellent alternative.

I will say we don't really know that Barkov/Monahan are going to be solid faceoff men and have 200+ hits at the NHL level... that's projecting some pretty big numbers and making big assumptions.... but if they have those credentials.... then I'll say Nichuskin is going to be a 6'5 230 lb powerhouse that blows over and through top dmen making them look like a bamboo outhouse in a hurricane... scary talent.

I'll also say... too many elite options at the top of this draft for the Oilers to trade the pick away unless they are getting an obvious elite young player in return.

Big chance for the Oilers to screw this up with "misplaced boldness" and I hope for all our sakes they have a little bit of the Tambo patience left to do the wise thing and use this pick instead of trading it away for quick fixes.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 05-13-2013 at 07:14 PM.
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05-13-2013, 07:08 PM
  #789
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Nichushkin is the BPA, but this franchise has done a bad job of building draft depth and have been too timid in finding player upgrades that they probably will pick based on need or move the pick.

I've been saying for the last two years they should've taken a run at Derrick Brassard from Columbus when his value was low and even demanded a trade out.

Tamby sat on his ass, there's been a few opportunities like that where we've had a chance to improve our center depth that we've missed out on.

And some of Stu's picks have been honestly garbage. Pitlick, Moroz, etc. c'mon. We needed some of these picks to pan out.

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05-13-2013, 07:12 PM
  #790
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I'm not going to argue picking Monahan or Barkov vs Nichushkin because all 3 are great choices... can't really lose imo.... but I will say the Oilers should keep it simple and keep the 7th and pick one of those... it's highly likely 1 of those 3 will still be available and if not... Lindholm is an excellent alternative.

I will say we don't really know that Barkov/Monahan are going to be solid faceoff men and have 200+ hits at the NHL level... that's projecting some pretty numbers and making big assumptions.... but if they have those credentials.... then I'll say Nichuskin is going to be a 6'5 230 lb powerhouse that blows over and through top dmen making them look like a bamboo outhouse in a hurricane... scary talent.

I'll also say... too many elite options at the top of this draft for the Oilers to trade the pick away unless they are getting an obvious elite young player in return.

Big chance for the Oilers to screw this up with "misplaced boldness" and I hope for all our sakes they have a little bit of the Tambo patience left to do the wise thing and use this pick instead of trading it away for quick fixes.
I guess 200 hits was over the top at this point.. but 100 hits should be realistic for Monahan and Barkov.. (Stoll had 100+ in a shortened season this year) ..

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05-13-2013, 07:16 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Nichushkin is the BPA, but this franchise has done a bad job of building draft depth and have been too timid in finding player upgrades that they probably will pick based on need or move the pick.

I've been saying for the last two years they should've taken a run at Derrick Brassard from Columbus when his value was low and even demanded a trade out.

Tamby sat on his ass, there's been a few opportunities like that where we've had a chance to improve our center depth that we've missed out on.

And some of Stu's picks have been honestly garbage. Pitlick, Moroz, etc. c'mon. We needed some of these picks to pan out.
Kinda like how Grigorenko was the BAP at #5 last year, Couturier at #5 the year before and Fowler in 2010..

Being top 5 in skill does not mean you go top 5 in the draft.

My prediction is that Nurse will shoot into top 5 in rankings after the draft combine.. If CAR does not snatch him EDM will

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05-13-2013, 07:26 PM
  #792
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Kinda like how Grigorenko was the BAP at #5 last year, Couturier at #5 the year before and Fowler in 2010..

Being top 5 in skill does not mean you go top 5 in the draft.

My prediction is that Nurse will shoot into top 5 in rankings after the draft combine.. If CAR does not snatch him EDM will
I think there's more than a few teams that regret not taking Couturier now.

I'd trade our 7th for Couturier and not even think twice about it.

Hard to say with Grigorenko as he hasn't played enough in the NHL yet.

The only thing with Nurse that concerns me is his shot, I'm not sure if he really has that big canon shot from the point and may not be able to produce big numbers at the NHL level if he doesn't have that. Maybe he can develop it, but it's a risk.

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05-13-2013, 07:34 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Nichushkin is the BPA, but this franchise has done a bad job of building draft depth and have been too timid in finding player upgrades that they probably will pick based on need or move the pick.

I've been saying for the last two years they should've taken a run at Derrick Brassard from Columbus when his value was low and even demanded a trade out.

Tamby sat on his ass, there's been a few opportunities like that where we've had a chance to improve our center depth that we've missed out on.

And some of Stu's picks have been honestly garbage. Pitlick, Moroz, etc. c'mon. We needed some of these picks to pan out.
I agree the Oilers could have drafted better outside the 1st round but it's still early for many of their picks. Can't defend the Moroz pick but Pitlick was BPA at #31... if he busts (and it looks like he might).. then that's just the way it goes. 2nd rounders aren't guarantees in any org.

I think the strategy to not make "bold moves" and fill obvious holes was a Lowe/Tambo/Katz strategy put in place when the rebuild started. You can't put all the blame on Tambo for his dithering and overly patient style. That's an intentional move to grow and improve the team largely from within the organization.

Going out and making big UFA acquisitions wasn't in tune with the burn it down and build it back up slowly rebuild philosophy that they obviously have had in place these last few years.

It's obviously time now to kick start this roster though as they still have too many under-performing support pieces (and the youth obviously can't do it all).

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05-13-2013, 09:33 PM
  #794
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Horvat will get consideration inside the top 10 after his ridiculous performance in the playoffs, scores the winner in game 7 tonight with 2 seconds left.....unreal clutch

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Old
05-13-2013, 09:58 PM
  #795
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New thread title.

Time to get the Horvat hype train rolling.

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05-13-2013, 10:06 PM
  #796
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"The Edmonton Oilers are so proud to select, from the Toronto Maple Leafs, Dion Phaneuf"
"The Edmonton Oilers are so proud to select, from the BCHL, Adam Tambellini"

One of the above will happen. Book it.

Also I'm liking the slogan. "Drop like stones for Jones" would have a good one earlier.

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05-13-2013, 11:29 PM
  #797
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I still don't understand why Mantha isn't more hyped/higher ranked. A 6'4" LW who put up 50 goals and plays a physical game, plus has good speed. He sounds like the Canadian Nichushkin to me, which obviously means he's a safer pick....

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05-13-2013, 11:55 PM
  #798
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
I still don't understand why Mantha isn't more hyped/higher ranked. A 6'4" LW who put up 50 goals and plays a physical game, plus has good speed. He sounds like the Canadian Nichushkin to me, which obviously means he's a safer pick....
because he's in the Q and he's not putting up 120 points

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05-13-2013, 11:56 PM
  #799
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I still don't understand why Mantha isn't more hyped/higher ranked. A 6'4" LW who put up 50 goals and plays a physical game, plus has good speed. He sounds like the Canadian Nichushkin to me, which obviously means he's a safer pick....
Attitude and inconsistency.

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05-14-2013, 12:38 AM
  #800
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THN top 9:

Jones
Drouin
Mack
Lindholm
Nichushkin
Barkov
Monahan
Nurse
Lazar

They also stated slight drop off after 3, then 6. Then another divide in 12-15 and then another drop to another plateau around the 40 mark

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