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2013 Draft Thread | "Falling Flat for Horvat"

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05-14-2013, 02:31 AM
  #801
Bryanbryoil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
THN top 9:

Jones
Drouin
Mack
Lindholm
Nichushkin
Barkov
Monahan
Nurse
Lazar

They also stated slight drop off after 3, then 6. Then another divide in 12-15 and then another drop to another plateau around the 40 mark
If Nashville takes Lindholm (there is a possibility) things could get interesting.

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05-14-2013, 02:35 AM
  #802
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
THN top 9:

Jones
Drouin
Mack
Lindholm
Nichushkin
Barkov
Monahan
Nurse
Lazar

They also stated slight drop off after 3, then 6. Then another divide in 12-15 and then another drop to another plateau around the 40 mark
If it were to go that way, I hope MacT goes hard for 5 to nab Barkov.

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05-14-2013, 02:43 AM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledown99 View Post
THN top 9:

Jones
Drouin
Mack
Lindholm
Nichushkin
Barkov
Monahan
Nurse
Lazar

They also stated slight drop off after 3, then 6. Then another divide in 12-15 and then another drop to another plateau around the 40 mark
Is that list up on a site or something - I'd like to hear their rationale's for their picks.

And as for Bo Horvat and his >point/game production in the OHL playoffs, I guess he's still not as good as Lazar to some people here is he?

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05-14-2013, 02:44 AM
  #804
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I'm not sure if anyone has seen this video of Nichushkin or not, but all that I've got to say is wow.


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05-14-2013, 03:11 AM
  #805
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Is he lineys with Kuznetzov?

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05-14-2013, 03:19 AM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has seen this video of Nichushkin or not, but all that I've got to say is wow.

Pretty sweet video. hockeysemin is a great YouTube poster, has made dozens of awesome videos. I just wish he'd make them for more than just Russian players

As for Nichushkin, you can see where the Rick Nash hype comes from with this kid. Great sense of where people are on the ice (some of those goal-mouth set-ups were mind-boggling). And he's quite a specimen with his size, frame, and skill-set - I honestly hate to bring it up but there's elements of Malkin in his game, with his ability to handle the puck and evade defenders.

What I do question is his ability to shoot/finish on good goaltending. He tends to have stereotypic moves when in close, but they appear to work every time. Then again, those same moves work for guys like Jeff Carter everytime he makes them. I'd like to maybe get a scouting report on his shooting ability, as he's not going to get straight to the net like that on every zone possession. Obviously he's a great deker, has great in-tight moves and can beat defenders one-on-one, but how about finishing off one-timers? Chances in the slot? Etc.

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05-14-2013, 05:37 AM
  #807
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Alexei Mikhnov and Rob Schremp look pretty good in video montages too...honestly, the defense in those videos looks pretty non-existent.

Anyways, we don't need guys whose no. 1 calling card is offense. We need some competitive, rugged, two-way players to compliment our existing scorers.

Hence why Monahan is so high on the list for most Oilers fans (and mocks) and why Lazar is even being mentioned as an option if Monahan is gone.

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05-14-2013, 06:49 AM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
everything minus what we really need... faceoffs\Big C\200 hits per season

Monahan\Barkov give you all of that. Nichushkin ( to me a wing version of Grigorenko) not so much.
How? Other than being russians with size. If anything Barkov is the one who plays slightly similar to Grigorenko though Barkov is a better two way player and also more developed physically and mentally despite being younger.

Nichushkins game is nothing like Grigorenkos.

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05-14-2013, 07:29 AM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has seen this video of Nichushkin or not, but all that I've got to say is wow.

Drooling at that size and power. *******. Gotta work on the vertical leap into the glass though

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05-14-2013, 08:53 AM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
If Lazar played for The Tri-City Americans, I don't think we would even be discussing the possibility of drafting him over players such as Nurse and Lindholm. The fact that he is an Oil King, raises his value to this fan base tremendously.
Of course there is going to be familiarity with him because he's an Oil King so sure, that plays a part in raising his value here but it's also because he has all the skills that we are so sorely lacking.

The problem with Lindholm is that most here (including myself) haven't had many viewings of him outside of a few WJC games and Youtube vids plus the ever so present "Soft Euro" tag that some of these Euros unfairly are placed with. I never understood the size argument since he's pretty much the same size as Lazar.

I personally would be a bit choked if Monahan is off the board, Lindholm is still there and the Oilers pass on him at 7. I'm not too keen on his defensive game but i do know from my limited viewings and scouting reports that he hits a lot and goes to the net with some frequency so it's not like he's a soft, perimeter player.
I really like Lazar a lot but i can't imagine under any circumstance that the Oilers pass on Lindholm for Lazar at 7.

If they want Lazar that badly, they should familiarize themselves with the teams below them to get a feel for where Lazar might fall and trade down to that spot OR my preference would be for them to use the two 2nds and a secondary prospect (Musil, Gernat) and trade up to get him and take the BPA at 7.

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05-14-2013, 09:06 AM
  #811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
I'm not sure if anyone has seen this video of Nichushkin or not, but all that I've got to say is wow.

That video reminds me of an old highlights package of Eric Cole that made the rounds around here when Lowe foolishly pawned off a 24 year old defenseman for a soon-to-be UFA. Main difference being Nichushkin looks like he can actually make plays off the left wing, while Cole had one move that only worked off the right wing.

I still don't think the Oilers draft him if he's available though. Everything I've seen(WJC) and heard about him suggests he's a winger going forward with no ability to play center, and I highly suspect the Oilers are fixated on drafting centers this year.

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05-14-2013, 09:15 AM
  #812
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Is that list up on a site or something - I'd like to hear their rationale's for their picks.

And as for Bo Horvat and his >point/game production in the OHL playoffs, I guess he's still not as good as Lazar to some people here is he?
Maybe because a statline has little to do with future NHL success.
It does seem like Horvat is having a great playoff but so did Lazar, he just didn't finish his chances so his statline looks mediocre.
Scouting a player is mostly about projecting skills to the next level, not stats.

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05-14-2013, 09:20 AM
  #813
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
I still don't think the Oilers draft him if he's available though. Everything I've seen(WJC) and heard about him suggests he's a winger going forward with no ability to play center, and I highly suspect the Oilers are fixated on drafting centers this year.
I agree - definitely looks like a winger to me, but why is he listed as a C in a few of the publications?

How about if he's on the board we swing a deal with the Caps for Kuznetsov and then rock a Russian line of Nichushkin-Kuznetsov-Yakupov? The Edmonton media and Don Cherry sure would hate them

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05-14-2013, 10:00 AM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Fourier View Post
BPA is extremely subjective even as early as the #7 pick. BUt even so I think that team needs do have to come into the equation. Would anyone here be happy today if they chose a small playmaking RW because they felt he was marginally better at this point than a big center that they had ranked two slots down the horn. The fact that they already have Yakupov and Eberle impacts this. THe team can aford not to hit a home run but they had better get a guy who can play.

Now of course Nurse is not a small RW. But he is stll pretty raw. Offensive defensemen tend to be able to make the jump sooner but even the best still struggle. Guys like Nurse whose game is more connected to their physical play tend to have wider ranges of success and to mature later. Are the Oilers prepared to wait 5 years for him to make his presence know?
If it was marginal no, but is our only other option a small playmaking RW? I still don't know why at 7 we are picking someone that we really need now. Are we drafting Lazar and then not worrying about center going forward? By the time Lazar is ready to be in the NHL and make an impact is center still going to be our most glarring weakness? Maybe.

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05-14-2013, 10:04 AM
  #815
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
That video reminds me of an old highlights package of Eric Cole that made the rounds around here when Lowe foolishly pawned off a 24 year old defenseman for a soon-to-be UFA. Main difference being Nichushkin looks like he can actually make plays off the left wing, while Cole had one move that only worked off the right wing.

I still don't think the Oilers draft him if he's available though. Everything I've seen(WJC) and heard about him suggests he's a winger going forward with no ability to play center, and I highly suspect the Oilers are fixated on drafting centers this year.
Revisionist history sure is fun. Lowe traded a 24 year old defenseman who was a defensve liability and demanded that he be sent out of town because he hated it here, but hey let your hatred of Kevin Lowe continue to rearrange historical events.

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05-14-2013, 10:14 AM
  #816
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Human View Post
Is that list up on a site or something - I'd like to hear their rationale's for their picks.

And as for Bo Horvat and his >point/game production in the OHL playoffs, I guess he's still not as good as Lazar to some people here is he?
No you have to purchase the magazine. It's not a mock draft. It's THN canvassing scouts and ten tallying their grades to come up with their rankings.

The overall draft got a grade of 8 out of 10. Some scouts graded it 4,5, and 6 out of 10. Other scouts gave it obviously much higher grade (to arrive at 8). So most scouts think highly of this draft while some obviously don't.

I can give some of the writeups if you like (as long as their aren't to many requests).

By the way, Horvat was rated 16th overall....

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05-14-2013, 10:16 AM
  #817
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Originally Posted by haterbehatin View Post
Revisionist history sure is fun. Lowe traded a 24 year old defenseman who was a defensve liability and demanded that he be sent out of town because he hated it here, but hey let your hatred of Kevin Lowe continue to rearrange historical events.
LOL - how is that "revisionist history"? Did Lowe trade Pitkanen for Cole or not? Was Pitkanen set to become an RFA and Cole set to become a UFA?

I don't really remember the mood on the forums, but I seem to recall most people not being thrilled about it at the time even in spite of Pitkanen's shortcomings. Just seemed like poor asset management.

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05-14-2013, 10:21 AM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
LOL - how is that "revisionist history"? Did Lowe trade Pitkanen for Cole or not? Was Pitkanen set to become an RFA and Cole set to become a UFA?

I don't really remember the mood on the forums, but I seem to recall most people not being thrilled about it at the time even in spite of Pitkanen's shortcomings. Just seemed like poor asset management.
You could see it coming with the talk at the time. Stauffer with his inside sources was going on about how much Pitkanen didnt fit in and was a strange cat but he had amazing ability. There's no defending the trade, Pitkanen was valuable an impending UFA Cole wasnt. It was a bad move.

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05-14-2013, 10:25 AM
  #819
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Originally Posted by Hoogaar23 View Post
LOL - how is that "revisionist history"? Did Lowe trade Pitkanen for Cole or not? Was Pitkanen set to become an RFA and Cole set to become a UFA?

I don't really remember the mood on the forums, but I seem to recall most people not being thrilled about it at the time even in spite of Pitkanen's shortcomings. Just seemed like poor asset management.
ST was actually able to turn that deal around somewhat. It was unfortunate POS never could keep up his play though.

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05-14-2013, 10:33 AM
  #820
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What gives you the impression that Lazar isn't a solid bet to be an O'Reilly type of player?
Because if mid-rounders are becoming O'Reilly then this is the best draft since 2003. O'Reilly wasn't a solid bet to be O'Reilly.

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According to many around the hockey world Lazar already has an NHL shot, excellent skating, both in speed and fundamentals, and he is regarded for his two way game and play away from the puck. He's a character guy no less.
None of that matters except in relation to other players.

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Perhaps watch this kid play. I, Like IATL, had Oil Kings season tickets for the last two years, and Lazar is a terrific hockey player.
Honestly to me that just says you have tunnel vision. You want "your guy" to be great, so you convince yourself first. Being an expert on Lazar doesn't make you an expert on the other players he's competing against.

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I wouldn't hesitate to put money on the fact that Lazar's career resembles O'Reilly's in a greater way than Darnell Nurse compares to Pronger at the end.
Ok, well yeah I'll agree with that. Pronger's one of the top few defenseman of his generation, I don't think it's realistic to expect anyone to compare to him. But Nurse doesn't need to be anywhere near that level to be a huge asset for us.

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05-14-2013, 10:44 AM
  #821
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Honestly to me that just says you have tunnel vision. You want "your guy" to be great, so you convince yourself first. Being an expert on Lazar doesn't make you an expert on the other players he's competing against.
Who are you an expert on? Since when is being able to watch a lot of games live a negative?

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05-14-2013, 10:49 AM
  #822
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Who are you an expert on? Since when is being able to watch a lot of games live a negative?
Might give you a bit of a bias toward the player?

Personally, I was and am like that with Brandon Gormley - I was screaming at Tambo through the TV to make a move to snag him when he fell out of the top 10. I thought and still think he will be a top pairing Dman.

As for Lazar, I like a lot of what I read about him, but haven't seen him play, so hard to have any kind of an opinion, but based on all the rankings I've seen, it would almost seem foolish to use #7 on him (again, coming from someone who hasn't seen him play live or otherwise)

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05-14-2013, 10:49 AM
  #823
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Who are you an expert on? Since when is being able to watch a lot of games live a negative?
It is a negative if if a person is evaluating players and becomes biased because they see one guy 40 times a year who is a promising player and don't see or only see other players who he may be competing with.

Lazar is a good looking prospect, your 40 or 100 or however many games you have seen him says that. However if you have seen Monahan twice, the russian and the swede once Nurse twice it doesn't present an even picture.

That is the negative.

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05-14-2013, 10:52 AM
  #824
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Who are you an expert on? Since when is being able to watch a lot of games live a negative?
Look around HF, we have people that hate on players for no reason other than what happened in the past, we have people that love players for the 1 good play they make a game but miss the 7 bad plays a game, we have people that simply don't understand what being a two-way player means.

It's not HFOiler specific. It's HFBoards specific.

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05-14-2013, 10:55 AM
  #825
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Ive seen Monahan and Nurse play, albeit on TV and not live and I think both would be good options for our pick/club.

I dont pretend to be an expert on the draft and all the players, but I will try to give my two cents on players who I do know well, when nonsense about them is being bandied about by people who obviously dont know what they are talking about.

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